E55 engine problem?
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 158
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From: Southwest USA
If you trade every year, and assuming you do it through the same dealer, you can now use this for some leverage in a year from now. 
This is a much better solution than if they tried to replace just a head or cam or supercharger or whatever. Then you never really know what problems might be lurking.
I bought a used 911 a few years back that had an engine changed out relatively early. I liked the fact I got the good price on a used car, but it had a relatively fresh engine.
I say if you're only keeping the car for a short while, why spend brain cycles and stress pushing to get an entirely new car. You're getting a basically new car for the year, and a lot sooner than if you had to wait for a new one to be built. :p
Just me 2 cents... i know it's a very personal decision.
This is a much better solution than if they tried to replace just a head or cam or supercharger or whatever. Then you never really know what problems might be lurking.
I bought a used 911 a few years back that had an engine changed out relatively early. I liked the fact I got the good price on a used car, but it had a relatively fresh engine.
I say if you're only keeping the car for a short while, why spend brain cycles and stress pushing to get an entirely new car. You're getting a basically new car for the year, and a lot sooner than if you had to wait for a new one to be built. :p
Just me 2 cents... i know it's a very personal decision.
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From: Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Porcelain Bus
Maybe they would like to keep yours and get you a new one. Thay owe you something because this will definitely hurt your resale value. It really depends how flexible you are regarding color and options and how receptive the regional sales rep is. They should be able to come up with a car within a month for you. Be persistent, I think you are right to ask for a new one as yours was basically a brand spankin' new car.
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From: Kenilworth, il usa
GT63S ePerformance 4dr, '25 Bentayga Black Ed.(wife), Wrangler and 250 MLB(kids)
Exact cause will be unknown,since the engine will be shipped intact to MB.
My service manager said it was the fuel pump that disintegrated and damaged the engine???
I'm getting tired with this whole thing,tired of driving a base ML,apparently have no legal recourse ,so I will accept this deal but not sure I'll ever buy another Benz again,no matter how powerful or nice they are.
From what I hear from Germany(family member at Audi R&D),they have a sleugh of new product coming out in next two years that's supposed to blow our minds.(And having owned about 5 Audis in last 5 years I had nothing but great experience with both the car and the dealer.)
My service manager said it was the fuel pump that disintegrated and damaged the engine???
I'm getting tired with this whole thing,tired of driving a base ML,apparently have no legal recourse ,so I will accept this deal but not sure I'll ever buy another Benz again,no matter how powerful or nice they are.
From what I hear from Germany(family member at Audi R&D),they have a sleugh of new product coming out in next two years that's supposed to blow our minds.(And having owned about 5 Audis in last 5 years I had nothing but great experience with both the car and the dealer.)
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From: Washington D.C.
2024 GLE63s / 2016 GLE63s (traded) / 2016 E63s / 2002 E55
absent, if possible take a picture of the 'bad' AMG engine builders signature plate for future reference.
I can understand your frustration, but, remember no product by any car maker or part is 100% perfect. Not even close. If a car or part has a 95% success rate there are 5% of those cars or parts that will fail. Unfortunately, somebody will get those 5% bad ones.
What is important? - It is not how bad a part fails but how well it is fixed.
I can understand your frustration, but, remember no product by any car maker or part is 100% perfect. Not even close. If a car or part has a 95% success rate there are 5% of those cars or parts that will fail. Unfortunately, somebody will get those 5% bad ones.
What is important? - It is not how bad a part fails but how well it is fixed.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 575
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From: Ramsey, NJ
2007 M5, 2004 X3 3.0i
This is disturbing. Even BMW after a little push replaced the faulty 7 series on a case by case basis. I think this case would be similar in that you are a high income customer , a repeat customer, receiving a product that from the start is faulty. There should be NO reason you cannot receive a replacement and anything less would unsatisfactory in my eyes. If the dealer cared for your business, they would be smart to start supporting your stance.
I know many of hte m5 people tend to work their angles through contacts at bmwna. I suggest trying to find sucha contact at mb and referring them to this discussion where this obviously affects other mb fanatics decisions toward the purchase of their next super sedan.
I know if i wanted to take a risk on a first year vehicle, id might as well get the v10 500 hp m5 coming out, but before this would obviously like the so-perceived reliability and customer service that comes with a benz. Unfortunately, in this instance, it seems BMW would outdo their competitor.
I know many of hte m5 people tend to work their angles through contacts at bmwna. I suggest trying to find sucha contact at mb and referring them to this discussion where this obviously affects other mb fanatics decisions toward the purchase of their next super sedan.
I know if i wanted to take a risk on a first year vehicle, id might as well get the v10 500 hp m5 coming out, but before this would obviously like the so-perceived reliability and customer service that comes with a benz. Unfortunately, in this instance, it seems BMW would outdo their competitor.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Kenilworth, il usa
GT63S ePerformance 4dr, '25 Bentayga Black Ed.(wife), Wrangler and 250 MLB(kids)
Just finished a call from a MB rep in NJ;in short ,she told me how sorry they were,how they value me as a customer and appreciate my loyalty,but even though the car had only barely 700 miles and was 5 days old,they would replace the engine only,no other options would be available to me.When asked about future resale value of the car,the rep fell silent and changed the subject,continuing the rambling about "valued customer,good relations" etc etc.
The whole thing just gives me a really bad taste in my mouth.
This car will never feel or look the same in my eyes,I will replace it ASAP.
The whole thing just gives me a really bad taste in my mouth.
This car will never feel or look the same in my eyes,I will replace it ASAP.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 562
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From: Chicago
E55
Absent, No need ot hurry replacing hte car, although you might get good money for it. I had a trnasmission replaced under conditions like yours. A few weeks later my feelings about hte car were as good as if nothing had happenned.
Have you thought of going up the ranks at MB?
Have you thought of going up the ranks at MB?
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Joined: Mar 2003
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That's very disturbing to hear indeed. Can't give you legal advice but if it was only five days old, why can't you just reject acceptance as non-conforming goods under the UCC? Gotta think you have a family attorney; is he/she telling you no recourse or that its just too expensive/time consuming? You might want to at least consider small claims court in Lake County. Neither side gets a lawyer, and often the person who has to appear is the regional rep for MBUSA and typically those folks don't like to have to waste a day doing that if they don't have to.
Of course, I understand if that's all too much of a pain but if its really bothering you then you might want to consider it I think you deserve a new car. If it was me, I would tell them that they can put a new engine in the car all they want but that I simply would not accept the car back. Then again, if anyone can put a new engine in and make it work just like new I believe its MB and Knauz so maybe things will be ok after all. Good luck.
Of course, I understand if that's all too much of a pain but if its really bothering you then you might want to consider it I think you deserve a new car. If it was me, I would tell them that they can put a new engine in the car all they want but that I simply would not accept the car back. Then again, if anyone can put a new engine in and make it work just like new I believe its MB and Knauz so maybe things will be ok after all. Good luck.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 575
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From: Ramsey, NJ
2007 M5, 2004 X3 3.0i
I think your strength lies in the argument about the value of hte car. I would push for a buyback if they will not replace it. If they feel so confident that the car's value is the same before and after the incident which has been caused by the fault THEY created in THEIR product, then they should take it right off your hands and try to sell it to a buyer when telling them they just did an engine swap.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 134
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Absent is pissed and there is little that can be done to change his mind
No doubt that a well placed letter to the President of MBUSA would go a long way. But I don't blame him for saying -- screw it -- it ain't worth my time or effort.
As for "non-conforming goods?' C'mon,a little knowledge is dangerous. These cars have warranties -- that is the remedy. They are fixing it under warranty and discharging their duties.
I don't like it, but there is nothing short of politics that will get you a new car.
As for "non-conforming goods?' C'mon,a little knowledge is dangerous. These cars have warranties -- that is the remedy. They are fixing it under warranty and discharging their duties.
I don't like it, but there is nothing short of politics that will get you a new car.
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From: 2000 ft over the FL coast in a B-17
Various
700 miles and an engine with its internals in peices
A former happy customer now an un-happy customer
A manufacturer that gives you no options
An AMG car...supposed to be the best of the brand
A MB client now looking at other brands
Collegues/friends of un-happy client will no doubt hear of this travesty
MB ranks 15th in JD Power...same as FORD
Cars resale value will definetly be effected if purchaser pulls service records and now #'s don't match on your vehicle
The moral of the story...MB creates another happy ending
Fight for a new car...don't give up...we are all pulling for you!
A former happy customer now an un-happy customer
A manufacturer that gives you no options
An AMG car...supposed to be the best of the brand
A MB client now looking at other brands
Collegues/friends of un-happy client will no doubt hear of this travesty
MB ranks 15th in JD Power...same as FORD
Cars resale value will definetly be effected if purchaser pulls service records and now #'s don't match on your vehicle
The moral of the story...MB creates another happy ending
Fight for a new car...don't give up...we are all pulling for you!
Last edited by RJC; Jun 30, 2003 at 07:05 PM.
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From: Ohio
Absent, I'm thinking that the lawyer idea in a previous post might be the best thing. You've been burned and have already become very hesitant (at the least) about getting another Benz. After paying that much money, you should not be stuck with something that's instantly a much lower value.
You might as well make them run around in a few circles for a change. It would be good for MB to see that their minimalist attitude towards service is becoming less and less tolerated. The down side is that it would cost _you_ money and time. Nuts... Well, hope things turn out better...
You might as well make them run around in a few circles for a change. It would be good for MB to see that their minimalist attitude towards service is becoming less and less tolerated. The down side is that it would cost _you_ money and time. Nuts... Well, hope things turn out better...
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 575
Likes: 1
From: Ramsey, NJ
2007 M5, 2004 X3 3.0i
Its gonna cost him money either way..either in a lawyer or in significantly lost value in the car. ANYONE looking to buy a low LOW mileage e55 is gonna want to cut 10k easy for it to possibly be worth their risk over getting a new one. I'd rather get the lawyer involved.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 134
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As a lawyer - I would not take the case
With all due respect, there is really nothing that can be done legally, unless they fail to replace the engine.
The warranty in this case is the exclusive remedy. Of course, you could get a lawyer to write a letter, but then you would inciting the legions of MB lawyers and foreclose any chance of getting satisfaction through political channels.
Once you rattle legal sabres, there is little chance of unringing the bell.
Maybe we (present and future E55 owners) should all write a letter on Absent's behalf. We could say that our confidence is shaken and unless we see a sign of good faith, our orders are at risk. I am willing to do it --
The warranty in this case is the exclusive remedy. Of course, you could get a lawyer to write a letter, but then you would inciting the legions of MB lawyers and foreclose any chance of getting satisfaction through political channels.
Once you rattle legal sabres, there is little chance of unringing the bell.
Maybe we (present and future E55 owners) should all write a letter on Absent's behalf. We could say that our confidence is shaken and unless we see a sign of good faith, our orders are at risk. I am willing to do it --
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 575
Likes: 1
From: Ramsey, NJ
2007 M5, 2004 X3 3.0i
sorry..to continue...BMW htough chose on teh side of cusotmer service and bought back some 7 series depending ont eh situation and extended warranies to 100k miles on all the m3's.
Im not seeing that being extended here. Its abotu customer service and being able to keep a good image in the eyes of high net work benz enthusiasts.
Im not seeing that being extended here. Its abotu customer service and being able to keep a good image in the eyes of high net work benz enthusiasts.
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From: 2000 ft over the FL coast in a B-17
Various
It all boils down to good faith on MB's part and doing the right thing. Unfortunately with MB's falling quality they have been getting hit with many un-happy customers and cars with significant #'s of/defects. The attorney above is right re the warnty etc. You either need to do:
1 Get MB to act on Good faith to you as a customer or
2 Have enough future defects or days out of service to meet lemon law status. Your car should rack up quite a few days out of service for all this, could even be 2 weeks total. If any little thing is not 100% perfect after the engine install keep bringing it back and rack up more days out of service.
...there is not much you can do for the moment. However as I stated earlier keep pushing (in a nice way) for a new vehicle and at the least ask for trade assistance from MB on an 04. Your dealer should also jump in for assistance, they sold you the car and pocketed a very healthy commission and seem to be passing the buck to soley to MB. Meet with the GM of the dealership and try to work out an amicable agreement, have them quote you a price to sell your car back to them. I can only imagine the price will be poor (more ammo for you to show damage to the MB rep) Together the rep and dealer can make this better for you, maybe not perfect but better. DON'T GIVE UP.
1 Get MB to act on Good faith to you as a customer or
2 Have enough future defects or days out of service to meet lemon law status. Your car should rack up quite a few days out of service for all this, could even be 2 weeks total. If any little thing is not 100% perfect after the engine install keep bringing it back and rack up more days out of service.
...there is not much you can do for the moment. However as I stated earlier keep pushing (in a nice way) for a new vehicle and at the least ask for trade assistance from MB on an 04. Your dealer should also jump in for assistance, they sold you the car and pocketed a very healthy commission and seem to be passing the buck to soley to MB. Meet with the GM of the dealership and try to work out an amicable agreement, have them quote you a price to sell your car back to them. I can only imagine the price will be poor (more ammo for you to show damage to the MB rep) Together the rep and dealer can make this better for you, maybe not perfect but better. DON'T GIVE UP.
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Joined: Jan 2003
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A failed engine goes a bit beyond the realm of a normal failure, especially within 1000 miles. There's also the issue of the potential loss in value that the engine replacement could result in. If I were in your position, I'd march into the dealership's General Manager's office and calmly explain that you aren't leaving until you've been on a conference call with the regional manager or whomever is the decisionmaker in this case. I would demand an explanation as to why the car wasn't being replaced and how they intended to address the issue of the potential loss in value due to the engine replacement. Explain that you haven't consulted with your attorney yet and really don't wish to; but thus far you are totally unsatisfied with the response you've received.
Should that not work, I'd get the contact information for the decisionmaker in this case and sue them personally for the potential loss in value (say $10,000). Gets MBUSA out of the picture. You may not win, but at least you'll enjoy the satisfaction of making whomever's life difficult for not doing the right thing.
IMO you should've been given the option of having the car replaced, or getting a portion of your money back (say, $7,500) and keeping the car. I tend to think the management at the dealership hasn't been as proactive as they could've been on this issue. I would press it MUCH harder.
Should that not work, I'd get the contact information for the decisionmaker in this case and sue them personally for the potential loss in value (say $10,000). Gets MBUSA out of the picture. You may not win, but at least you'll enjoy the satisfaction of making whomever's life difficult for not doing the right thing.
IMO you should've been given the option of having the car replaced, or getting a portion of your money back (say, $7,500) and keeping the car. I tend to think the management at the dealership hasn't been as proactive as they could've been on this issue. I would press it MUCH harder.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 562
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From: Chicago
E55
I am not a lawyer and would not know what to say on legal matters. It might be good to know exactly what, say, the lemon laws are. [BTW there is web site on MB quality which is some help in htis matter]
But I do think we should back up Absent as much as we can. A consumer orgnaization of MB customers and potential customers would be valuable to us all in the long run.
But I do think we should back up Absent as much as we can. A consumer orgnaization of MB customers and potential customers would be valuable to us all in the long run.
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Joined: Jul 2002
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Originally posted by Pbglas
I am not a lawyer and would not know what to say on legal matters. It might be good to know exactly what, say, the lemon laws are. [BTW there is web site on MB quality which is some help in htis matter]
But I do think we should back up Absent as much as we can. A consumer orgnaization of MB customers and potential customers would be valuable to us all in the long run.
I am not a lawyer and would not know what to say on legal matters. It might be good to know exactly what, say, the lemon laws are. [BTW there is web site on MB quality which is some help in htis matter]
But I do think we should back up Absent as much as we can. A consumer orgnaization of MB customers and potential customers would be valuable to us all in the long run.
