BI-Performance

We would like to open up a discussion about offering built bottom ends for the M113K motor.

Buckhead Imports Performance is very keen on offering this to the community as an off the shelf purchase, but would like to open up a discussion with the members.

This is what we are planning to offer, a steel sleeved block, with forged pistons, OEM forged rods with new rod bearings through out. The bottom end will be assembled at our facility by a Mercedes Benz Master Technician, and would offer a 12K mile or one year warranty for the build.

In order for us to warranty that motor, we would want our tune on the car. This is where we need the community's feedback, what are you guys willing to pay for this option, an off the shelf purchase, that can be drop shipped from our shop.

Once you receive our built bottom end, we would want your stock one as a core exchange, and off course reduce cost for doing so. This would ensure that we constantly have inventory on our shelves.

This is an open discussion, so let us know your thoughts, questions and concerns

urbamworm

Sounds like a good idea, only problem I see with it is there isn't really a need for a built engine that would use a tune from you guys. Unless you are installing one of the two supercharger upgrades (which neither are available still) and plan on running high boost you don't really need the upgraded bottom end.

Now with the new supercharger upgrade it comes with a proper tune for the supercharger from the respected manufacturer of the kit. Having said this, you would then need to throw that tune out the window (and time wasted sending off your ecu for that tune that you are just gonna get rid of). Then arrange to start all over and have your car brought to Buckhead to get dyno tuned for the new supercharger (which hasn't been tuned for until the first car were to arrive with one of said supercharger upgrades installed and Buckhead get it under their belt that they tuned one and have a file) which I don't think many would want to do.

Having said this, maybe people will just take the chance and not have a warranty on the built engine if the tune is a requirement?

chawkins2001

For the folks wanting to capitalize on a built bottom end, who says you have to go the standard bolt on route, you could stay stock, and run a massive wet shot. Dont forget about nitrous on built motors, case and point, terminator cobras.

Tons of guys running a simple bolt on terminator cobra, with a nice size shot. In those cases, they run as hard or harder than twin screw cobras.

RedBullJnky

If the price is right, I'd be in for this. I have no intention on getting one of the new blowers. I have another project that's gonna start after MIR. And I have to build the bottom end anyway.
BIP is good people and know what they are doing. I would be confident with their tune.

kustom2k1

Engine builders can usually figure out why a motor failed, like poor oiling from bad machining. You wouldn't warranty a motor that just melted its pistons unless you tuned it as well. You could offer a workmanship warranty and stipulate exactly whats covered.

GregMB

No idea on pricing, but as the entire family of cars gets older more and more people will eventually need to rebuild the motors just due to mileage and general wear.

I've never seen an M113k motor with the bottom end blown out due to weak componentry, so it might make sense to at least offer a "stock" rebuilt shortblock. For most guys with high-mile motors this will fill an important void in the market. Good "used" motors are getting harder and harder to find. I don't think most guys would want to pay the price premium for beefed up parts that aren't necessary at most HP levels.

For the remaining 1% of guys who are planning on blower swaps and actually NEED that extra strength on the bottom-end then sure..... Offer that too at a premium price.

Either way, I doubt there will be much interest in bundling your tune with a 1-year warranty. Most people know that warranties are worthless in actual failure situations.


-G

betrezra

Subscribed.

Dawson718

I will love one I have over 100,000 on mine PM me.

marc.l

Vaith in Germany I think still do built short blocks including a 5.8 convershion .
Not a clue on price but for you guys state side it would I thought be economical to buy a second hand motor in Germany and ship it over ? Prices in Germany for a full motor including supercharger and every thing else (alternator , air con compreser , inlets etc ) are around 5000- 8000 euro .

BBBSS

I wouldn't mind a piston kit. Early 03 guys and some people pushing stock blowers seem to have piston issues. A box of stronger pistons I could swap in reusing everything except maybe some new rings would be interesting.

e55amgrocket

This is the route I was going to go but decided I've waited this long for darton to finish sleeves so what's a little longer. The weak point in the bottom end is the rod/rod bolts but until the whipple kits come out we aren't going to see any failures.

BI-Performance

Thanks for the comments so far guys. We just finished a built bottom end for one of our customers, and it turned out great.

There are many options here, we only offered a tune with the built short block to offer the 1 year warranty, but if you guys would prefer not to have a tune, we can do that too. There will also be different power levels available, just as is with any vendor offering built blocks.

Steve, what are the rod bolts capable of brotha? On our last build, the sleeved block and pistons were good for 2000HP, but stock rods and bolts were used. Off course know the G55 is a standard build with a 195mm pulley and full bolt on. The limits of the build will not be tested in terms of how much it can hold.

We still have a bare block, and are planning to do steel sleeves, ross pistons again, and put it in Craigs car. We will look to set it up with Nitrous and push the limits of the motor to see what it can hold. If buying new replacement rods and bolts are beneficial, we could go that route.

Keep the comments coming guys, and we also have a some great news on crank repair about to be released.

e55amgrocket

I sent a stock rod with a rod bolt to my engine builder plus another engine builder and to Oliver (Oliver connecting rods) and everyone said they would guess the limits around 700hp and thats also RPM related of course. The stock rod bolts and very small for the power goals some of us are looking for. The connecting rod itself is forged but is very heavy compared to a comparable forged connecting rod and a decent amount heavier than a stronger billet connecting rod. I'm shipping out another rod/piston to Oliver today for them to do some testing on and hopefully they should have a custom rod designed by the end of the month.

Worth the wait

Oliver are nice rods.
That is the first I heard of complaints about the stock rods and bolts. Plenty about the pistons/rings having issues. Good info.

But I guess if you are tearing her down it would be silly to use the heavier stock parts if lighter/stronger stuff would be available.

Who would do all the balancing of the rotating assembly?
Would the same shop build the short block and long block?

It is very nice to see projects like this be floated. Hope you guys get a solid program in place.
What new ancillary parts would the include, beyond gaskets of course?

badm

What I'd like to see and have interest in is a larger displacement stroker short block like the 5.8 liter vath block . Bigger displacement and a bullet proof botton end.

e55amgrocket

It's not really a complaint about the stock rods it's just where their limits are. I'm sure AMG didn't expect that when they built a engine that would make 470-500 crank HP we wouldn't be trying to get almost twice that out of them. If someone is getting a motor built the odds are they're trying to make some good power and safely.

WHTEVO

I personally think you should offer a piston & rod combo. I know if i was building any car for some higher horsepower abuse, i would do both while it is apart. Options for different compression ratios for those of us who like E85 or race gas? Good luck.

Aaron

streetspeeder

Any chance in getting a stroker 6.3L from the 5.4 block?

BI-Performance

Thanks for the feedback guys, I will look into stroking the motor since there seems to be some interest there, and you guys prefer the forged rotating assembly option rather than a built short block.

That would mean you would need to sleeve the block on your end. None of you guys have mentioned pricing yet, what would you be willing to pay for a sleeved built short block? The short block would be completely balanced, assembled etc once you receive it. You would not need to do anything to it other than bolt on the heads and rest of the motor.

We can look into changing compression if that is what you are after too.

e55amgrocket

Why not offer a built short block with the billet rods? I think most would go that route if they were in the market for one. When you start trying to go the stroker route that's where it can get very expensive. You will need a complete custom crankshaft plus different length rods that will also need to be custom made. Then there's the unknown question of clearance for the increased stroke/swing of the crankshaft and connecting rod also. Not saying it can't be done but that would take some time to get it figured out and done right.

e55amgrocket

Forgot to mention custom head gaskets would need to be made also (Cometic told me 4-6 weeks)

Sir-Boost-a-Lot

iTrader: (1)

Why the need for custom head gaskets?

Ted Baldwin

.......I actually don't the there is going to be any demand for built engines at all. I think Mercedes tuners are still far far behind tuners of other makes. Other than the yet to be released Weistec s/c, there is nothing available for these cars that will require a built engine. Even the Weistec s/c does not require a built engine. For this to be successful, you need to first come up with options after built engine. Use the Lamborghini tuners as inspiration and actually create something people can purchase as a package. Just selling a built block is easy. If Mercedes tuners are serious then come up with tt packages with built engines. But this is not going to happen. Perhaps, you can partner with Weistec and offer combined built engine with their s/c.

Ted

e55amgrocket

Stock head gasket is for a stock bore. If we are over boring it to get 5.7-5.8L then a custom head gasket will be needed.

marc.l

There is currently a varh short motor on eBay Europe €5000 if I rember correctly .