Turbo E55 anyone?
02-21-2013, 01:31 PM
#26
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Eurocharged Performance ML63 and TT lambo
We have been toying with the idea of doing this here at AMS. I have a E55 and our president has an E55 wagon. It's no secret we love turbos and we do all of own in housing tuning so I'm not worried about that side of things. What scares us the most is the cost of doing a kit like this probably isn't going to appeal to too many people.
Ideally you would do a twin setup and even using a log style manifold with turbos, wastegates, intercooler, intercooler pinging, fuel solution and tuning you are going to be near or north of the $10K mark to do it right using the best parts (the only option in our opinion) We still might do it on our two cars just because we are bat **** crazy like that but making a production piece concerns us with the estimated retail cost of such a system.
Eric
Ideally you would do a twin setup and even using a log style manifold with turbos, wastegates, intercooler, intercooler pinging, fuel solution and tuning you are going to be near or north of the $10K mark to do it right using the best parts (the only option in our opinion) We still might do it on our two cars just because we are bat **** crazy like that but making a production piece concerns us with the estimated retail cost of such a system.
Eric
Stock rods and hardware won't hold the power, so a build is necessary. With new rods (made), hardware, sleeving, and heads your looking at $7-8k. Then you still need to build the turbo setup lol...
02-21-2013, 01:39 PM
#27
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05 White Pano E55, Cadillac CTS-V
All good questions.... but I'm left wondering if the power is so good and the effort is so minimal, why doesn't it exist already.... especially if it could be done "cheaper" than Weistec's kit? 
Jerry at Eurocharged is going *****-out on a new motor project with a built bottom-end and a Weistec blower. He mentioned some outrageous HP target like 900 - 1200HP or something crazy like that.
Assuming the ECU development work on the turbo Crossfire is easily ported to the E55 platform, why wouldn't Eurocharged themselves build a turbo E55 instead? They have more resources than almost anyone here... so if it was ever going to be successful and cost-effective they'd have the best shot at it.
-G
Jerry at Eurocharged is going *****-out on a new motor project with a built bottom-end and a Weistec blower. He mentioned some outrageous HP target like 900 - 1200HP or something crazy like that.
Assuming the ECU development work on the turbo Crossfire is easily ported to the E55 platform, why wouldn't Eurocharged themselves build a turbo E55 instead? They have more resources than almost anyone here... so if it was ever going to be successful and cost-effective they'd have the best shot at it.
-G
Relying on a fancy kit that a shop like AMS above would produce would certainly skyrocket the price, but a local tuner shop with a fabricator could do a one off kit easily for much less retaining the stock manifolds, especially doing a single turbo where you cut parts needed in half (turbo, wastegate, oil lines, filter, downpipe).
Single 76mm turbo would be sweet runnning at just over 600whp on pump gas which isn't happening with the stock blower and every bolt on made in the car, and especially not reliably (without a gigantic pulley or combo to get boost way up) due to super high heat from the boost trying to make the power.
Last edited by urbamworm; 02-21-2013 at 01:42 PM.
02-21-2013, 02:34 PM
#29
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No.... Why?? The money time and energy it will cost to do this is not worth it.
The existing setup in the e55 is superb. You'd be going backwards first to move forward.
The existing setup in the e55 is superb. You'd be going backwards first to move forward.
02-21-2013, 03:47 PM
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E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
E 55 $25,000.00
Turbo kit & install $12,500.00
Cash out $37,500.00
Ummm no thanks,
I would use that $37,500.00 toward financing a used E63 bi turbo, cause it works NOW. I understand Renntech has the bi turbo 5.5 liter to 800 hp at the crank. Oh and yes turbo talk for E 55 has been going on for 9 years and I have not seen one, but I did hear of one in Montana.
Turbo kit & install $12,500.00
Cash out $37,500.00
Ummm no thanks,
I would use that $37,500.00 toward financing a used E63 bi turbo, cause it works NOW. I understand Renntech has the bi turbo 5.5 liter to 800 hp at the crank. Oh and yes turbo talk for E 55 has been going on for 9 years and I have not seen one, but I did hear of one in Montana.
02-21-2013, 03:54 PM
#31
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Backwards - don't think so, major leap forward if anything .
I read 10sec. Club thread on here and yes it's great and has some great info, but all I see is
Pulley, TB, exhaust
TB, pulley, exhaust
Exhaust , pulley,TB
I think the limit for the SC is reached and its time for something new. In my opinion and experience you're not going to find out the true potential of the power plant until it has couple of snails on it
And yes it will take time and energy to do, but it will be time and energy well spend ( maybe not for the big shops that more than happy to keep selling you same stuff over and over again and god forbid they do something out of curiosity). If you're willing to do the work yourself than the cost shouldn't be that great, I put together turbo kit for my mustang for under 1500, I'm not saying it will be the case with the E but I think I can easily do it for under 5k
I read 10sec. Club thread on here and yes it's great and has some great info, but all I see is
Pulley, TB, exhaust
TB, pulley, exhaust
Exhaust , pulley,TB
I think the limit for the SC is reached and its time for something new. In my opinion and experience you're not going to find out the true potential of the power plant until it has couple of snails on it
And yes it will take time and energy to do, but it will be time and energy well spend ( maybe not for the big shops that more than happy to keep selling you same stuff over and over again and god forbid they do something out of curiosity). If you're willing to do the work yourself than the cost shouldn't be that great, I put together turbo kit for my mustang for under 1500, I'm not saying it will be the case with the E but I think I can easily do it for under 5k
02-21-2013, 04:01 PM
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Backwards - don't think so, major leap forward if anything .
I read 10sec. Club thread on here and yes it's great and has some great info, but all I see is
Pulley, TB, exhaust
TB, pulley, exhaust
Exhaust , pulley,TB
I think the limit for the SC is reached and its time for something new. In my opinion and experience you're not going to find out the true potential of the power plant until it has couple of snails on it
And yes it will take time and energy to do, but it will be time and energy well spend ( maybe not for the big shops that more than happy to keep selling you same stuff over and over again and god forbid they do something out of curiosity). If you're willing to do the work yourself than the cost shouldn't be that great, I put together turbo kit for my mustang for under 1500, I'm not saying it will be the case with the E but I think I can easily do it for under 5k
I read 10sec. Club thread on here and yes it's great and has some great info, but all I see is
Pulley, TB, exhaust
TB, pulley, exhaust
Exhaust , pulley,TB
I think the limit for the SC is reached and its time for something new. In my opinion and experience you're not going to find out the true potential of the power plant until it has couple of snails on it
And yes it will take time and energy to do, but it will be time and energy well spend ( maybe not for the big shops that more than happy to keep selling you same stuff over and over again and god forbid they do something out of curiosity). If you're willing to do the work yourself than the cost shouldn't be that great, I put together turbo kit for my mustang for under 1500, I'm not saying it will be the case with the E but I think I can easily do it for under 5k
Well there you go folks..... twin-turbo E55 for less than $5K.
Be sure to let us know when it's all finished, and post up pics.
-G
02-21-2013, 04:07 PM
#33
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02-21-2013, 04:34 PM
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05 White Pano E55, Cadillac CTS-V
The big or small money will be spent on the fabrication of mounting turbo/turbos to the manifold. If you have the means to use stock manifolds and do the little connection pipes routed to back of engine for a single setup without paying someone $2000-$3000 to make you turbo manifolds and downpipe setup then you aren't going to spend over $5k
$2100 ball bearing turbo/ $1100 for journal bearing in 76mm range for a single setup.
$350 for wastegate
$250 for a blow off valve
$200 for some oil lines and fittings
$100 manual boost controller
$100 for filter
$200 for a 3.5" intercooler piping kit with couplers and t-bolt clamps (weld pipes or couple them together).
$3300 going ball bearing route, now you have to do the downpipe and manifold connections, if you can do it yourself/friend probably $400 in 304 stainless piping and flanges so you are up to $3700. That leaves you with the intake manifold fabrication to replace surge tanks/supercharger. $150 in some sheet metal and doing the work yourself so no labor cost you are coming in under $4000. This is like I said if you have access to a welder and know how to weld or have a friend who does. You could always do the work yourself still and take it to be welded which could cost a few hundred so still under $5000 more in the $4500 range. You want to go cheaper, get a journal bearing turbo and knock that price down to $3500. Now you get it tuned, lets just say $1000 to be safe even though it could be less, that is $5500 ball bearing or $4500 journal bearing route out the door driving down the road.
If I forgot something let me know but for the heck of it I will add another $500 for a total of $6000 which should be more than enough since I didn't skimp anywhere on numbers to get all the stuff where some stuff you could end up getting cheaper.
And this setup would make more power than a stage 3 setup on pump gas compared to what you are getting on a C16/Q16 race gas tune with the typical stuff where people are making maybe 550whp unless you are adding in ported heads and cams which is a considerable jump in cost on top of "stage 3" typical bolt on mods (another $5k in parts).
$2100 ball bearing turbo/ $1100 for journal bearing in 76mm range for a single setup.
$350 for wastegate
$250 for a blow off valve
$200 for some oil lines and fittings
$100 manual boost controller
$100 for filter
$200 for a 3.5" intercooler piping kit with couplers and t-bolt clamps (weld pipes or couple them together).
$3300 going ball bearing route, now you have to do the downpipe and manifold connections, if you can do it yourself/friend probably $400 in 304 stainless piping and flanges so you are up to $3700. That leaves you with the intake manifold fabrication to replace surge tanks/supercharger. $150 in some sheet metal and doing the work yourself so no labor cost you are coming in under $4000. This is like I said if you have access to a welder and know how to weld or have a friend who does. You could always do the work yourself still and take it to be welded which could cost a few hundred so still under $5000 more in the $4500 range. You want to go cheaper, get a journal bearing turbo and knock that price down to $3500. Now you get it tuned, lets just say $1000 to be safe even though it could be less, that is $5500 ball bearing or $4500 journal bearing route out the door driving down the road.
If I forgot something let me know but for the heck of it I will add another $500 for a total of $6000 which should be more than enough since I didn't skimp anywhere on numbers to get all the stuff where some stuff you could end up getting cheaper.
And this setup would make more power than a stage 3 setup on pump gas compared to what you are getting on a C16/Q16 race gas tune with the typical stuff where people are making maybe 550whp unless you are adding in ported heads and cams which is a considerable jump in cost on top of "stage 3" typical bolt on mods (another $5k in parts).
Last edited by urbamworm; 02-21-2013 at 04:39 PM.
02-21-2013, 04:35 PM
#36
Super Member
E 55 $25,000.00
Turbo kit & install $12,500.00
Cash out $37,500.00
Ummm no thanks,
I would use that $37,500.00 toward financing a used E63 bi turbo, cause it works NOW. I understand Renntech has the bi turbo 5.5 liter to 800 hp at the crank. Oh and yes turbo talk for E 55 has been going on for 9 years and I have not seen one, but I did hear of one in Montana.
Turbo kit & install $12,500.00
Cash out $37,500.00
Ummm no thanks,
I would use that $37,500.00 toward financing a used E63 bi turbo, cause it works NOW. I understand Renntech has the bi turbo 5.5 liter to 800 hp at the crank. Oh and yes turbo talk for E 55 has been going on for 9 years and I have not seen one, but I did hear of one in Montana.
02-21-2013, 04:44 PM
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AMS quoted $10K+ for parts, not including a stronger bottom-end rebuild on the motor.
EuroCharged guessed at $7-8K for the bottom-end plus heads, THEN start adding up the parts costs for the actual turbo conversion.
Neither company offered any estimates for providing software or development help to tune a "homebrew" turbo kit. This is your primary obstacle IMHO. Unless you can do your own tuning you are at the mercy of someone else and have no way to control how high those costs go... if I were a reputable tuner, there's no way I'd agree to get involved in the first place. It's not worth the risk unless they can control the entire build process, parts selection, etc.
What sort of HP/TQ target do you have in mind? It must be something north of 600WHP since you seem unimpressed with the traditional E55 power adder options. It's pretty clear though that most of the "experts" around here don't trust the stock bottom end to hold power much beyond 600WHP....
If your "budget build" is nothing more than lots of boost with a stock block, you're just lighting the fuse on an expensive stick of dynamite.
-G
02-21-2013, 04:45 PM
#39
MBWorld Fanatic!
The big or small money will be spent on the fabrication of mounting turbo/turbos to the manifold. If you have the means to use stock manifolds and do the little connection pipes routed to back of engine for a single setup without paying someone $2000-$3000 to make you turbo manifolds and downpipe setup then you aren't going to spend over $5k
$2100 ball bearing turbo/ $1100 for journal bearing in 76mm range for a single setup.
$350 for wastegate
$250 for a blow off valve
$200 for some oil lines and fittings
$100 manual boost controller
$100 for filter
$200 for a 3.5" intercooler piping kit with couplers and t-bolt clamps (weld pipes or couple them together).
$3300 going ball bearing route, now you have to do the downpipe and manifold connections, if you can do it yourself/friend probably $400 in 304 stainless piping and flanges so you are up to $3700. That leaves you with the intake manifold fabrication to replace surge tanks/supercharger. $150 in some sheet metal and doing the work yourself so no labor cost you are coming in under $4000. This is like I said if you have access to a welder and know how to weld or have a friend who does. You could always do the work yourself still and take it to be welded which could cost a few hundred so still under $5000 more in the $4500 range. You want to go cheaper, get a journal bearing turbo and knock that price down to $3500. Now you get it tuned, lets just say $1000 to be safe even though it could be less, that is $5500 ball bearing or $4500 journal bearing route out the door driving down the road.
If I forgot something let me know but for the heck of it I will add another $500 for a total of $6000 which should be more than enough since I didn't skimp anywhere on numbers to get all the stuff where some stuff you could end up getting cheaper.
$2100 ball bearing turbo/ $1100 for journal bearing in 76mm range for a single setup.
$350 for wastegate
$250 for a blow off valve
$200 for some oil lines and fittings
$100 manual boost controller
$100 for filter
$200 for a 3.5" intercooler piping kit with couplers and t-bolt clamps (weld pipes or couple them together).
$3300 going ball bearing route, now you have to do the downpipe and manifold connections, if you can do it yourself/friend probably $400 in 304 stainless piping and flanges so you are up to $3700. That leaves you with the intake manifold fabrication to replace surge tanks/supercharger. $150 in some sheet metal and doing the work yourself so no labor cost you are coming in under $4000. This is like I said if you have access to a welder and know how to weld or have a friend who does. You could always do the work yourself still and take it to be welded which could cost a few hundred so still under $5000 more in the $4500 range. You want to go cheaper, get a journal bearing turbo and knock that price down to $3500. Now you get it tuned, lets just say $1000 to be safe even though it could be less, that is $5500 ball bearing or $4500 journal bearing route out the door driving down the road.
If I forgot something let me know but for the heck of it I will add another $500 for a total of $6000 which should be more than enough since I didn't skimp anywhere on numbers to get all the stuff where some stuff you could end up getting cheaper.
I don't know why people think it will cost a fortune to build a turbo setup, the fact is it doesn't! Now what's the point without a built motor, that's where the real money comes in. Guys building something yourself for this platform isn't going to cost anymore then another platform, having it built by someone else with the MB tax is. Now if Jerry didn't have the tuning down and no one wanted to invest the time in it then it couldn't happen. I know I'm going out on a limb here, but with the prices dipping so low on these cars and the tuning figured out for a turbo setup I think we're going to start seeing people invest real money to build a monster out of one. I can understand why someone wouldn't want to put 20K+ into a 90K vehicle with a warranty to have 800HP+, if you pay 15K-20K and you have no warranty having 40K into a 800HP-1000HP E55 doesn't sound too bad.
02-21-2013, 04:47 PM
#40
Member
Thread Starter
The big or small money will be spent on the fabrication of mounting turbo/turbos to the manifold. If you have the means to use stock manifolds and do the little connection pipes routed to back of engine for a single setup without paying someone $2000-$3000 to make you turbo manifolds and downpipe setup then you aren't going to spend over $5k
$2100 ball bearing turbo/ $1100 for journal bearing in 76mm range for a single setup.
$350 for wastegate
$250 for a blow off valve
$200 for some oil lines and fittings
$100 manual boost controller
$100 for filter
$200 for a 3.5" intercooler piping kit with couplers and t-bolt clamps (weld pipes or couple them together).
$3300 going ball bearing route, now you have to do the downpipe and manifold connections, if you can do it yourself/friend probably $400 in 304 stainless piping and flanges so you are up to $3700. That leaves you with the intake manifold fabrication to replace surge tanks/supercharger. $150 in some sheet metal and doing the work yourself so no labor cost you are coming in under $4000. This is like I said if you have access to a welder and know how to weld or have a friend who does. You could always do the work yourself still and take it to be welded which could cost a few hundred so still under $5000 more in the $4500 range. You want to go cheaper, get a journal bearing turbo and knock that price down to $3500. Now you get it tuned, lets just say $1000 to be safe even though it could be less, that is $5500 ball bearing or $4500 journal bearing route out the door driving down the road.
If I forgot something let me know but for the heck of it I will add another $500 for a total of $6000 which should be more than enough since I didn't skimp anywhere on numbers to get all the stuff where some stuff you could end up getting cheaper.
$2100 ball bearing turbo/ $1100 for journal bearing in 76mm range for a single setup.
$350 for wastegate
$250 for a blow off valve
$200 for some oil lines and fittings
$100 manual boost controller
$100 for filter
$200 for a 3.5" intercooler piping kit with couplers and t-bolt clamps (weld pipes or couple them together).
$3300 going ball bearing route, now you have to do the downpipe and manifold connections, if you can do it yourself/friend probably $400 in 304 stainless piping and flanges so you are up to $3700. That leaves you with the intake manifold fabrication to replace surge tanks/supercharger. $150 in some sheet metal and doing the work yourself so no labor cost you are coming in under $4000. This is like I said if you have access to a welder and know how to weld or have a friend who does. You could always do the work yourself still and take it to be welded which could cost a few hundred so still under $5000 more in the $4500 range. You want to go cheaper, get a journal bearing turbo and knock that price down to $3500. Now you get it tuned, lets just say $1000 to be safe even though it could be less, that is $5500 ball bearing or $4500 journal bearing route out the door driving down the road.
If I forgot something let me know but for the heck of it I will add another $500 for a total of $6000 which should be more than enough since I didn't skimp anywhere on numbers to get all the stuff where some stuff you could end up getting cheaper.
I do have a friend that's very good with welding and fabrication but he's always very busy so it would take a long time for him to finish, especially if I can't find a intake manifold that will fit
02-21-2013, 04:47 PM
#41
MBWorld Fanatic!
It sounds like you aren't reading too carefully.....
AMS quoted $10K+ for parts, not including a stronger bottom-end rebuild on the motor.
EuroCharged guessed at $7-8K for the bottom-end plus heads, THEN start adding up the parts costs for the actual turbo conversion.
Neither company offered any estimates for providing software or development help to tune a "homebrew" turbo kit. This is your primary obstacle IMHO. Unless you can do your own tuning you are at the mercy of someone else and have no way to control how high those costs go... if I were a reputable tuner, there's no way I'd agree to get involved in the first place. It's not worth the risk unless they can control the entire build process, parts selection, etc.
What sort of HP/TQ target do you have in mind? It must be something north of 600WHP since you seem unimpressed with the traditional E55 power adder options. It's pretty clear though that most of the "experts" around here don't trust the stock bottom end to hold power much beyond 600WHP....
If your "budget build" is nothing more than lots of boost with a stock block, you're just lighting the fuse on an expensive stick of dynamite.
-G
AMS quoted $10K+ for parts, not including a stronger bottom-end rebuild on the motor.
EuroCharged guessed at $7-8K for the bottom-end plus heads, THEN start adding up the parts costs for the actual turbo conversion.
Neither company offered any estimates for providing software or development help to tune a "homebrew" turbo kit. This is your primary obstacle IMHO. Unless you can do your own tuning you are at the mercy of someone else and have no way to control how high those costs go... if I were a reputable tuner, there's no way I'd agree to get involved in the first place. It's not worth the risk unless they can control the entire build process, parts selection, etc.
What sort of HP/TQ target do you have in mind? It must be something north of 600WHP since you seem unimpressed with the traditional E55 power adder options. It's pretty clear though that most of the "experts" around here don't trust the stock bottom end to hold power much beyond 600WHP....
If your "budget build" is nothing more than lots of boost with a stock block, you're just lighting the fuse on an expensive stick of dynamite.
-G
02-21-2013, 05:04 PM
#42
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05 White Pano E55, Cadillac CTS-V
Wow David, it's like you've actually done this sort of thing opposed to just talking about it I don't know why people think it will cost a fortune to build a turbo setup, the fact is it doesn't! Now what's the point without a built motor, that's where the real money comes in. Guys building something yourself for this platform isn't going to cost anymore then another platform, having it built by someone else with the MB tax is. Now if Jerry didn't have the tuning down and no one wanted to invest the time in it then it couldn't happen. I know I'm going out on a limb here, but with the prices dipping so low on these cars and the tuning figured out for a turbo setup I think we're going to start seeing people invest real money to build a monster out of one. I can understand why someone wouldn't want to put 20K+ into a 90K vehicle with a warranty to have 800HP+, if you pay 15K-20K and you have no warranty having 40K into a 800HP-1000HP E55 doesn't sound too bad.
I don't know why people think it will cost a fortune to build a turbo setup, the fact is it doesn't! Now what's the point without a built motor, that's where the real money comes in. Guys building something yourself for this platform isn't going to cost anymore then another platform, having it built by someone else with the MB tax is. Now if Jerry didn't have the tuning down and no one wanted to invest the time in it then it couldn't happen. I know I'm going out on a limb here, but with the prices dipping so low on these cars and the tuning figured out for a turbo setup I think we're going to start seeing people invest real money to build a monster out of one. I can understand why someone wouldn't want to put 20K+ into a 90K vehicle with a warranty to have 800HP+, if you pay 15K-20K and you have no warranty having 40K into a 800HP-1000HP E55 doesn't sound too bad.
things become much more possible and without breaking the bank. And like mentioned with some of these first year cars now selling for closer to $15000 true gear heads who do crazy builds will do just that.
This is a rendering of the finished product.
02-21-2013, 05:13 PM
#43
Member
Thread Starter
It sounds like you aren't reading too carefully.....
AMS quoted $10K+ for parts, not including a stronger bottom-end rebuild on the motor.
EuroCharged guessed at $7-8K for the bottom-end plus heads, THEN start adding up the parts costs for the actual turbo conversion.
Neither company offered any estimates for providing software or development help to tune a "homebrew" turbo kit. This is your primary obstacle IMHO. Unless you can do your own tuning you are at the mercy of someone else and have no way to control how high those costs go... if I were a reputable tuner, there's no way I'd agree to get involved in the first place. It's not worth the risk unless they can control the entire build process, parts selection, etc.
What sort of HP/TQ target do you have in mind? It must be something north of 600WHP since you seem unimpressed with the traditional E55 power adder options. It's pretty clear though that most of the "experts" around here don't trust the stock bottom end to hold power much beyond 600WHP....
If your "budget build" is nothing more than lots of boost with a stock block, you're just lighting the fuse on an expensive stick of dynamite.
-G
AMS quoted $10K+ for parts, not including a stronger bottom-end rebuild on the motor.
EuroCharged guessed at $7-8K for the bottom-end plus heads, THEN start adding up the parts costs for the actual turbo conversion.
Neither company offered any estimates for providing software or development help to tune a "homebrew" turbo kit. This is your primary obstacle IMHO. Unless you can do your own tuning you are at the mercy of someone else and have no way to control how high those costs go... if I were a reputable tuner, there's no way I'd agree to get involved in the first place. It's not worth the risk unless they can control the entire build process, parts selection, etc.
What sort of HP/TQ target do you have in mind? It must be something north of 600WHP since you seem unimpressed with the traditional E55 power adder options. It's pretty clear though that most of the "experts" around here don't trust the stock bottom end to hold power much beyond 600WHP....
If your "budget build" is nothing more than lots of boost with a stock block, you're just lighting the fuse on an expensive stick of dynamite.
-G
When I build my mustang (302) everybody said it will destroy itself at 500 with a 67mm turbo, well it had a long and happy life at little over 600.
Finally rods gave out, not the block
02-21-2013, 05:18 PM
#44
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Sure. I'm sure Jerry is just dying to provide tuning help for cheap turbo kits that will cannibalize the sales all of his existing products...
These discussions are like deja-vu, re-appearing every 6 months or so on MBWorld.
Maybe somebody can come up with a super-cheap turbo solution for the E55.... maybe it will ultimately get sold as a kit on eBay for $2995. It's going to either end up cheap or good, but it's certainly not going to be both. That message came across loud and clear from both AMS and EuroCharged earlier in this thread.
I do find it interesting that the guys who seem most adamant that a cheap kit is possible always seem to have a buddy who is a fabricator or can do all the welding for them (I'm guessing that means for free). That's got to be a contributing factor to why these projects never seem to go anywhere either..... it seems hard to believe most talented welders / fabricators would stay committed to spending hours of their own valuable time making parts for their friends' projects.
-G
02-21-2013, 05:24 PM
#45
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Eurocharged Performance ML63 and TT lambo
we have the engine blueprinted and parts sent for analysis to see their estimated limits. Rods and hw are your weak points...
02-21-2013, 05:51 PM
#46
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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05 White Pano E55, Cadillac CTS-V
Sure. I'm sure Jerry is just dying to provide tuning help for cheap turbo kits that will cannibalize the sales all of his existing products...
These discussions are like deja-vu, re-appearing every 6 months or so on MBWorld.
Maybe somebody can come up with a super-cheap turbo solution for the E55.... maybe it will ultimately get sold as a kit on eBay for $2995. It's going to either end up cheap or good, but it's certainly not going to be both. That message came across loud and clear from both AMS and EuroCharged earlier in this thread.
I do find it interesting that the guys who seem most adamant that a cheap kit is possible always seem to have a buddy who is a fabricator or can do all the welding for them (I'm guessing that means for free). That's got to be a contributing factor to why these projects never seem to go anywhere either..... it seems hard to believe most talented welders / fabricators would stay committed to spending hours of their own valuable time making parts for their friends' projects.
-G
These discussions are like deja-vu, re-appearing every 6 months or so on MBWorld.
Maybe somebody can come up with a super-cheap turbo solution for the E55.... maybe it will ultimately get sold as a kit on eBay for $2995. It's going to either end up cheap or good, but it's certainly not going to be both. That message came across loud and clear from both AMS and EuroCharged earlier in this thread.
I do find it interesting that the guys who seem most adamant that a cheap kit is possible always seem to have a buddy who is a fabricator or can do all the welding for them (I'm guessing that means for free). That's got to be a contributing factor to why these projects never seem to go anywhere either..... it seems hard to believe most talented welders / fabricators would stay committed to spending hours of their own valuable time making parts for their friends' projects.
-G
My car is fully modded so I personally am not to interested in doing something like this on top of it being nearly impossible with my current job situation, but if I just bought the car stock or close to it for half the price that I paid for mine it would be a different story. Yes it means free for the welding being done, like I already said when you have friends in the industry. I have already made a underhood coolant tank in which that friend's father welded it up for me. I also already started doing top mount intercoolers in which he also did welding for me. I unfortunately have extemely limited time to work on it since he is located in my hometown where I no longer live (7 hours away) so I only make it there to visit every now and then and it is even more limited since for the past 1.5 years I have been working overseas with brief visits home where I am running around visiting everyone so it makes it tough to sit at a welding shop working instead of hanging with friends I haven't seen in months.
I have half of the intercoolers done, but am going to do some adjusting to them, and then I am currently having some other pieces being made from someone else helping me out that will contribute to getting them finished.
Some people do have friends that enjoy helping them, or trading out services such as I put a stereo in his wife's car and he does some welding for me, but I usually do nothing for it since I have known them for as long as I can remember and I do little things here and there if he needs help as well.
You want to see some serious fabrication that a guy's good friend has done for him in his spare time, check this thread out when you have some time and look at all the pics through the 19 pages Click here. He likes doing design and fabrication for a hobby outside his real job. It is of a B5 S4 and so many parts have been made doing this single turbo kit on a motor swap with tons of fab on the front end of the car and under the hood to every part imaginable from engine mounts to thermostat housing, to you name it. The dude has a good friend and has got hooked up, it does exist out there believe it or not.
02-21-2013, 06:06 PM
#48
MBWorld Fanatic!
I too think this wont go much further than ideas. I remember a thread about a year ago about this. It turned out like this, then the thread died with the last post being "I'll update when I hear back from ------" Or something similar. I hope it turns out differently here, because like others said, turbos are cooler than superchargers. But, only time and pocket depth will tell.
02-21-2013, 06:10 PM
#49
Looking at the 55k I just tore down recently, I was amazed at how rinky-dink a lot of the parts are. Specifically the rods and rod bolts. The rods are forged however and I bet they'll take more than you might think with more robust hardware. I'd be very very surprised if after upgrading the rod bolts and increasing the power levels into the 700-800 rwhp range if the rods just snap in half because that's all the power they can take. Especially on a low RPM (<7000 rpm) turbo engine because the stress force is all compression.
I thought the same thing about the first 5.0 Ford I dismantled. (2011+ 5.0, not the mullet 5.0)
It was back before they were released by Ford so no one knew anything about them yet, and Lamotta and I were looking at what a joke we thought the rotating assembly was, and figured they'd be glass just like the 2010 and earlier non-SVT engines. Within a year there were guys in the 9s with power adders on bone stock engines and I ate crow big time on that one.
Back to the turbo system itself-
Lots of guys are laughing because you're right, it does come up from time to time, and on many different forums. The "I've got a buddy who can ____" thing always cracks me up because Ive seen it somany times over the years. This is what usually happens.
1. Your "pro buddy" isn't quite the ____ guru you thought he was. The reason is, that you yourself know basically nothing, so can't really identify that your buddy is nowhere near the cream of the crop in his respective craft. You saw him finish someone's car that looked good to you, or you saw a pic on the Internet,but often that which glistens is not golden. People have a tendency to exaggerate their successes and hide their failures in shame.
2. Your "pro buddy" really is the $h1t, but most guys who are, indeed the $h1t in their particular craft are really f**king busy making money and aren't sharing the same twinkle in the eye that you are. There's a good chance they'd like to see your ____ project get done, as a pro they are exited to see new things in the industry, but they don't want to be the ****** putting in all the R+D just to chase a carrot on a string.
3. Your "pro buddy" is both, the $h1t, and has an unusual amount of spare time and energy, but it turns out you overestimated "buddy". This guy just took on your project because he thought your girl was hot and you were a tool, and figured you talking about him and the great turbo project you guys were teamed up on might put him in a position where he might get to f**k her. Then it didn't work out like he thought and your project sits around for years when he suddenly gets busy again.
Or maybe the project did get done, but you noticed your girl was acting weird.
Which leads to the ideal scenario, however unlikely it is to occur. 3 friends, A top shelf machinist, an automotive powertrain engineer, and a world class tuner are all walking down the sidewalk and find a winning ticket to the Saturday night powerball. After paying the taxes, buying their wives and girlfriends condos in another state so they get some work done, they begin to scheme.
Wouldn't it be great if there was a twin turbo kit for the Mercedes E55?
And it was done.
I thought the same thing about the first 5.0 Ford I dismantled. (2011+ 5.0, not the mullet 5.0)
It was back before they were released by Ford so no one knew anything about them yet, and Lamotta and I were looking at what a joke we thought the rotating assembly was, and figured they'd be glass just like the 2010 and earlier non-SVT engines. Within a year there were guys in the 9s with power adders on bone stock engines and I ate crow big time on that one.
Back to the turbo system itself-
Lots of guys are laughing because you're right, it does come up from time to time, and on many different forums. The "I've got a buddy who can ____" thing always cracks me up because Ive seen it somany times over the years. This is what usually happens.
1. Your "pro buddy" isn't quite the ____ guru you thought he was. The reason is, that you yourself know basically nothing, so can't really identify that your buddy is nowhere near the cream of the crop in his respective craft. You saw him finish someone's car that looked good to you, or you saw a pic on the Internet,but often that which glistens is not golden. People have a tendency to exaggerate their successes and hide their failures in shame.
2. Your "pro buddy" really is the $h1t, but most guys who are, indeed the $h1t in their particular craft are really f**king busy making money and aren't sharing the same twinkle in the eye that you are. There's a good chance they'd like to see your ____ project get done, as a pro they are exited to see new things in the industry, but they don't want to be the ****** putting in all the R+D just to chase a carrot on a string.
3. Your "pro buddy" is both, the $h1t, and has an unusual amount of spare time and energy, but it turns out you overestimated "buddy". This guy just took on your project because he thought your girl was hot and you were a tool, and figured you talking about him and the great turbo project you guys were teamed up on might put him in a position where he might get to f**k her. Then it didn't work out like he thought and your project sits around for years when he suddenly gets busy again.
Or maybe the project did get done, but you noticed your girl was acting weird.
Which leads to the ideal scenario, however unlikely it is to occur. 3 friends, A top shelf machinist, an automotive powertrain engineer, and a world class tuner are all walking down the sidewalk and find a winning ticket to the Saturday night powerball. After paying the taxes, buying their wives and girlfriends condos in another state so they get some work done, they begin to scheme.
Wouldn't it be great if there was a twin turbo kit for the Mercedes E55?
And it was done.
Last edited by Sir-Boost-a-Lot; 02-21-2013 at 07:06 PM.
02-21-2013, 06:21 PM
#50
MBWorld Fanatic!
