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Thanks Tim. Sir-Boost was active for a long time. It would be great for him to chime back in. I actually had his number at one point. Maybe I will check my other phone. He was a straight up guy, but I think he moved on, platform wise.
It's just a bit more research to find the best bead size for the 7 degree locks (for a valve stem of the right size). Those are the main pivots.
Getting the parts ready for this. Still not sure about the keeper groove match up. If its an engine and working that's good - issue is - whether buying fresh springs is a better idea and staying stock. I was originally doing this so I can do other cams and wring it out a bit more. However its still a DD.
not quite yet. Heads are at the machinist now and I will have him check the guides, make sure all the valves are usable, etc. And skim the heads.
The valve locks are my concern, as we spoke about several months ago. However I did speak with ferrea and they said as long as there is a true “lock” physically that you can feel, then I should be okay.
I’ll have the machinist do the ID increase on the valve spring seats. Other than that, I can put the rest of the long bloc together when I get the heads back and start working on the rest of the 10 things I need to do to have it back on the road!
Awesome! Glad to hear you’re still getting things done, wish I could say the same
The valve locks are good to go, Ive never heard of anyone having a problem in any of the engines I’ve built for people or from DIYers who had hit me up for tech help back when I posted this guide up.
The constant pressure from the spring makes the vertical play in the lock/valve groove radius irrelevant. It’s impossible for the lock to slide up and down in the groove of the valve stem while in operation, but if it were, the locks would just fall out of the retainer instead of that tiny bit of play in the groove doing anything problematic.
What’d you go with for cams?
Originally Posted by BC928
not quite yet. Heads are at the machinist now and I will have him check the guides, make sure all the valves are usable, etc. And skim the heads.
The valve locks are my concern, as we spoke about several months ago. However I did speak with ferrea and they said as long as there is a true “lock” physically that you can feel, then I should be okay.
I’ll have the machinist do the ID increase on the valve spring seats. Other than that, I can put the rest of the long bloc together when I get the heads back and start working on the rest of the 10 things I need to do to have it back on the road!
+1 on the cams as well. I will be Cryogenic treating the rods and pistons and thermal barrier on the piston tops and never thought of more rpm. Little leary of "custom" cams so would love to know if you have a pair selected or not.
What do you think you can increase the rpm to ? 7,000 ? and still make power?
+1 on the cams as well. I will be Cryogenic treating the rods and pistons and thermal barrier on the piston tops and never thought of more rpm. Little leary of "custom" cams so would love to know if you have a pair selected or not.
What do you think you can increase the rpm to ? 7,000 ? and still make power?
I would love to find some cams that are good quality and actually make a difference with more net lift and don’t decrease the dynamic compression because static is already so low.
If I can’t I’ll just run stock cams and know I won’t have the valves hang open.
Open to suggestion. I don’t need a higher rpm range but I did use arp rod bolts.
Heads are done! So I will review Sir Boosts thread, but with everything together it looks like it has 120 pounds closed on the valves. 90 with no spring seats. So I have some options to bring that 120 down if I want to use different sprint seats.
I was expecting to run quite a bit of boost (I have a 180 crank pulley and no current purchase on the SC pulley). I have to look again at the calcs - its been a while.
Very interesting. I'm planning a NA build on standalone and this will come in handy. I'm all for saving money by using what's available.
Where did you get the ARP rod bolts from, and what is the part number?
Check out Cat Cams. They have a few different options for the m113, including forced induction. I'm thinking of going with their 'hot street - dirt track' cams. Not cheap though. Sometimes you have to pay to play...
Evidently there’s two sets of springs and seats that Mercedes used on the 55k engines.
Everything else (head casting, spring pocket depth, valve length, is identical.
One set uses a spring seat with .290 overall height and the other uses a setting seat with .196 overall height.
Both spring seats have an identical pocket depth of .159 so the thicker seat comes with a shorter spring. I have no idea why they did this but the longer spring has a red/white stripe while the shorter one has two white stripes. The shorter springs will have the taller seats which will either need to be machined to the shorter height of .196, or swapped out for the shorter spring seats to give the proper 1.47 installed height.
I have 8 sets of 55k heads here and 7 of them have the taller red/white spring with the 1.47 installed height. The set with the shorter white/white spring is from an 04 CL55. @BC928 has an 06 E55 with the shorter white/white springs, and the heads I used for this write-up were also from my 06 E55 and they had the taller springs so there doesn’t seem to be any consistency since they all have the same head casting of R113 016 24 01 and R113 016 25 01.
These beehive springs will work with either, just make sure you’re aware of the spring seat differences.
Last edited by Sir-Boost-a-Lot; 01-27-2020 at 03:27 AM.
What the chance someone will have a lighter retainer to fit stock replacement valve springs? Fresh springs and a lighter overall assembly for a s.tock cam set up sounds like an easy option.
What the chance someone will have a lighter retainer to fit stock replacement valve springs? Fresh springs and a lighter overall assembly for a s.tock cam set up sounds like an easy option.
I have made it seem more difficult than it needs to be. I do that. People supposedly have ti retainers that work for the stock Springs. And a larger tool steel set make work from some other car.
I’ve got a few extra sets of titanium retainers that will fit the stock springs (either of the 2 different springs Mercedes used in these engines, both have the same retainer and locks)
PM me if you want to go that route. I paid $450 for each set, I’ll sell for $350/set
Shim the spring seat by .030 (IIRC) and you’ll get a little more seat pressure from the stock springs to help combat high RPM valve float, just at the expense of lift range before coil bind.
Youre better off with the beehive springs though. Lighter weight than even the Ti retainer OEM springs, better harmonics, and the capacity for increased lift in case you decide to try something more aggressive with cam profiles.
Originally Posted by SICAMG
What the chance someone will have a lighter retainer to fit stock replacement valve springs? Fresh springs and a lighter overall assembly for a s.tock cam set up sounds like an easy option.
Im having my heads redone and ported along with the block due to plastic that was in the oil valves. The shop already installed valve seats for the springs. I feel like I am missing out by not getting behive springs, frankly i forgot about them. Can someone give me the average price for a full set for 8 cylinders. Also what is the benefit, I can imagine the valves being able to open or close more depending on the thickness of them? but I doubt this will net even 20hp or what?
Above 5k.
Youll see it on a dyno graph, or feel the power nosing over in high gear at WOT.
A standard NA m113 will rev over 5k. Are you telling me that the valves float with the factory rev limit? I find it hard to believe that Mercedes would allow such a thing to happen.
04-07-2019, 12:12 PM
