E55 AMG vs CTS-V Video!
08-11-2013, 09:28 PM
#51
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2014 cls63 a amg. 2018 AMG GTR
I am impressed. I had no idea the Vs could make so much more power. Making me want to revisit the V again. How do those trans handle all the extra power though ? How is it the V doesnt need much for cooling mods ?
I'd say the big difference here is the cam. Doesnt seem like the E55s have much choices for cams that make any real power. LSx motors can make tons more power with a good cam choice.
Sh*t like this always makes me want more power damn it !
I'd say the big difference here is the cam. Doesnt seem like the E55s have much choices for cams that make any real power. LSx motors can make tons more power with a good cam choice.
Sh*t like this always makes me want more power damn it !
08-11-2013, 09:39 PM
#52
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05 White Pano E55, Cadillac CTS-V
There have been some failures out there but there are many running 700 and even higher on stock trans and converter. They say the transmission tune is important and they also say to over fill the tranny. There is a guy who ran 9.8s@143 on stock trans and converter. He had put up a lot of big times/traps then put a modded one in, he was having trouble with it so put his stock one back in and was bang out even better times/speeds with some engine upgrades he did.
08-11-2013, 09:42 PM
#53
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2014 cls63 a amg. 2018 AMG GTR
so the blower is actually smaller on the V. What kind of boost does it start out at stock and how much boost are you running now ? Just trying to figure out how these are making so much better numbers so easily and cheaply.
08-11-2013, 09:52 PM
#54
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05 White Pano E55, Cadillac CTS-V
Stock is 9psi but then of course boost is going to be dependent on if you have headers or stock manifolds, ported or stock heads, etc, as you know boost is backpressure so putting headers on a stock pulley car would lower the 9psi. My car was making 15psi until the tuner recently adjusted the bypass valve which makes it run around 1.5psi more now, that is running a 2.5 upper and 9.1 lower with headers/exhaust.
A typical pulley upgrade people do puts them around 11-12psi which would be similar to the smaller supercharger pulley for the E55 or close to the same or slightly less than a 168crank pulley.
A typical pulley upgrade people do puts them around 11-12psi which would be similar to the smaller supercharger pulley for the E55 or close to the same or slightly less than a 168crank pulley.
08-12-2013, 12:27 AM
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How is it the V doesnt need much for cooling mods ?
I'd say the big difference here is the cam. Doesnt seem like the E55s have much choices for cams that make any real power. LSx motors can make tons more power with a good cam choice.
08-12-2013, 01:56 AM
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04 w211 E55
Wow I'm actually really surprised at the results. I was stock and raced a stock V twice. Both races V would fall to my back tire and just begin to walk me slowly. I wasn't too surprised with the results. This V is fast as hell.
My run in
My run in
Last edited by E55AMGGG04; 08-12-2013 at 02:00 AM.
08-12-2013, 06:06 AM
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2004 E55,1969 300SEL6.3,2011 ML350 BlueTec Diesel,2005 ML400 CDI
To be honest what is modded to death about it, its all pretty standard stuff? The only difference is it has a cam which most in the E55 world don't have but there are still a handful that do and even more so another handful that have ported heads while the CTS-Vs are stock. There are several people on this board who have a crank and supercharger pulley, others with huge crank pullies that run nearly the same boost as my crank/supercharger pulley in the V which is around 16-16.5psi. People are also running meth injection and killer chillers, there is none of that on the V. So as you see there are several Es that are more modded I would say than the V.
It has headers, so do all the E55s, it has a ported stock throttle body, so do a lot of E55s while others have upgraded to the 80 like my E55 or to the 82mm and a few others to 90mm. It has an upgraded heat exchanger which all E55s have as well and an air intake which many run aftermarket carbon fiber air boxes in the E55s or the custom 2 pipes down the sides of engine in place of stock box setup. A V similar to mine was running 10.8s at 130-133 like 2 weeks ago in Orlando, Florida in the middle of the summer while the Es wait for the coldest nights of winter at MIR to do anything like this and those are the baddest Es in the country which also have skinnies on the front, no interior, racing seat for the driver and half are missing their exhaust.
The only difference is going back to the cam, that is it. And the Vs are running 10s all day long and on 93 octane, not needing a race gas tune with Q16 in the tank or E85 and a cold day with great prepped track and a full tank of ice in an ice tank.
I love my E55, I have been driving it more everyday than I have the V but the E is no competition if both cars have the same fuel in the tank and same basic "stage 3" mods and it gets even worse if the cars are lighter modded. Look at the member in here PetroC63, he ran 10.7@127 in his V with a ported intake/throttle body, a smaller supercharger pulley an air intake and upgraded heat exchanger. No headers, no big boost, no cam, no exhaust, no ice tank, no race gas.
I will happily run any E55/CLS in the Jacksonville area or Orlando since I have family that goes there. I would love to run the Weistec supercharged car that should be in Orlando in few more days and I just happen to plan on going down there toward the end of the week with nothing to do so all the time in the world to run. I also just made a thread yesterday in the W212 section looking for tuned bi-turbos to run. It is all fun to me win or lose.
It has headers, so do all the E55s, it has a ported stock throttle body, so do a lot of E55s while others have upgraded to the 80 like my E55 or to the 82mm and a few others to 90mm. It has an upgraded heat exchanger which all E55s have as well and an air intake which many run aftermarket carbon fiber air boxes in the E55s or the custom 2 pipes down the sides of engine in place of stock box setup. A V similar to mine was running 10.8s at 130-133 like 2 weeks ago in Orlando, Florida in the middle of the summer while the Es wait for the coldest nights of winter at MIR to do anything like this and those are the baddest Es in the country which also have skinnies on the front, no interior, racing seat for the driver and half are missing their exhaust.
The only difference is going back to the cam, that is it. And the Vs are running 10s all day long and on 93 octane, not needing a race gas tune with Q16 in the tank or E85 and a cold day with great prepped track and a full tank of ice in an ice tank.
I love my E55, I have been driving it more everyday than I have the V but the E is no competition if both cars have the same fuel in the tank and same basic "stage 3" mods and it gets even worse if the cars are lighter modded. Look at the member in here PetroC63, he ran 10.7@127 in his V with a ported intake/throttle body, a smaller supercharger pulley an air intake and upgraded heat exchanger. No headers, no big boost, no cam, no exhaust, no ice tank, no race gas.
I will happily run any E55/CLS in the Jacksonville area or Orlando since I have family that goes there. I would love to run the Weistec supercharged car that should be in Orlando in few more days and I just happen to plan on going down there toward the end of the week with nothing to do so all the time in the world to run. I also just made a thread yesterday in the W212 section looking for tuned bi-turbos to run. It is all fun to me win or lose.
08-12-2013, 06:23 AM
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2004 E55,1969 300SEL6.3,2011 ML350 BlueTec Diesel,2005 ML400 CDI
Nah, that would be superfluous. Just get a Weistec Whipple and it will be very interesting.
Side Note: Besides the extreme intercooling I never really understood why the SLR motor was so much stouter than the regular Kompressor engines. If price was not a major deterrent I believe everyone would just integrate parts from that motor.
Side Note: Besides the extreme intercooling I never really understood why the SLR motor was so much stouter than the regular Kompressor engines. If price was not a major deterrent I believe everyone would just integrate parts from that motor.
08-12-2013, 07:12 AM
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Well that's a ton of differences then. I wish the E55k engine received some of those upgrades over the life cycle of the engine the same way some of the M159 upgrades fell down to the M156 engine (C63 507).
08-12-2013, 11:08 AM
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Here is a race between a 2013 Viper and a 2011 CTS-V with less mods than Urbanworm's V.
http://www.ctsvowners.com/forum/show...-vs-2011-CTS-V
http://www.ctsvowners.com/forum/show...-vs-2011-CTS-V
08-12-2013, 11:20 AM
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05 White Pano E55, Cadillac CTS-V
Actually that is the same mods really. Well, I don't have the NorCal coolant tank (yet) like it has, but then I have a ported throttle body. Upper/lower, cam, headers, heat exchanger is all the same. Just don't know the size of the upper/lower but probably the same size. Then of course it has nitrous but it wasn't used.
08-12-2013, 12:47 PM
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2014 cls63 a amg. 2018 AMG GTR
So boost starts out about the same as the E55 and ends pretty close. Although those few extra pounds certainly equate to a good 50+ WHP more I imagine. Also seems our cars are hard to get as good of tunes for them. Tuning out some of the timing heatsoak causes helped a ton for my blown GTO to be consistent at the track even with crappy HE and no ice.
Why do our cars seem to hit a brick wall at around 550-575 WHP and these go beyond with relative ease ? I always thought these two cars were nearly perfect equals mod for mod before reading all this.
Saw a few for under 40K with low miles. Getting lower. I'll probably be good for a year or two. I really think the V might be in my future. That or a used E63 TT.
What sized tires fit in the Vs anyway ?
Why do our cars seem to hit a brick wall at around 550-575 WHP and these go beyond with relative ease ? I always thought these two cars were nearly perfect equals mod for mod before reading all this.
Saw a few for under 40K with low miles. Getting lower. I'll probably be good for a year or two. I really think the V might be in my future. That or a used E63 TT.
What sized tires fit in the Vs anyway ?
08-12-2013, 01:10 PM
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05 White Pano E55, Cadillac CTS-V
Well, it has a bigger engine (6.2) so takes to mods a little better, and I don't know but maybe the stock for stock heads the Vs are better?
I have 305/35-19 drag radials on the car and am lowered on Eibach coupe springs (I have a Sedan). I don't think you could fit anything wider than that though (if lowered), but the Coupe can handle wider tires.
I have 305/35-19 drag radials on the car and am lowered on Eibach coupe springs (I have a Sedan). I don't think you could fit anything wider than that though (if lowered), but the Coupe can handle wider tires.
08-12-2013, 01:21 PM
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E55, CTS-V Wagon, Duc 1098R
The E's heads flow better at the same valve lift. Problem with the E is that here are very few cam options vs the V where you can get a custom cam ground in 3 days. A well designed cam for the V increases the power by 50-75hp by itself.
Also, on my V at least with cooling mods, heat soak is way worse than it is on the E55 with less boost. I know a lot of people complain about our inter cooler, but the V's is a joke in comparison. I'm running the upper only and making 12 psi and its difficult keeping the temps under 140.
Big difference is absolutely the tuning. I've been tuning my car myself and it has been awesome!
Also, on my V at least with cooling mods, heat soak is way worse than it is on the E55 with less boost. I know a lot of people complain about our inter cooler, but the V's is a joke in comparison. I'm running the upper only and making 12 psi and its difficult keeping the temps under 140.
Big difference is absolutely the tuning. I've been tuning my car myself and it has been awesome!
08-12-2013, 01:28 PM
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05 White Pano E55, Cadillac CTS-V
Interesting, I will be addressing some cooling issues of the V I saw on the last dyno this Friday with the addition of a coolant tank, a shroud around my filter for the New ERA intake on the car and making sure there isn't a bubble in the system. My IAT2 were like almost 30* higher than the IAT1 even when cruising down the street (upper 120s) and it was around 90* outside. So I definitely have some sort of problem but even with that you see how fast the car is and the power it made on the dyno completely heat soaked.
Gonna be bad *** with the addition of a ported snout and supercharger as well as hopefully fixing the intake temp problems some. I bet it will be able to hit 700whp on a cold dyno run. I may just be doing street tuning instead of going to a dyno though after the ported blower so may not get some new numbers. I might be able to hit the track though if I make it back in time after having this work done and the weather cooperates (no rain).
Gonna be bad *** with the addition of a ported snout and supercharger as well as hopefully fixing the intake temp problems some. I bet it will be able to hit 700whp on a cold dyno run. I may just be doing street tuning instead of going to a dyno though after the ported blower so may not get some new numbers. I might be able to hit the track though if I make it back in time after having this work done and the weather cooperates (no rain).
Last edited by urbamworm; 08-12-2013 at 01:31 PM.
08-12-2013, 01:56 PM
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E55, CTS-V Wagon, Duc 1098R
If you add Meth and go with a 9.5 lower you will be close to 700 with porting. You will need a 102TB as well. Otherwise don't get your hopes up. Getting that last 100hp's is very difficult.
As far as cooling is concerned, the best way to tell how effective the IC is is by the recovery after a WOT run. That is terrible on the V in relation to the E. I think you can get Iat1 and Iat2 within 10 of each other pretty easily. Getting IAT1 down itself is a challenge and what you described helps but its still bad from my experience with the car.
As far as cooling is concerned, the best way to tell how effective the IC is is by the recovery after a WOT run. That is terrible on the V in relation to the E. I think you can get Iat1 and Iat2 within 10 of each other pretty easily. Getting IAT1 down itself is a challenge and what you described helps but its still bad from my experience with the car.
08-12-2013, 02:17 PM
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05 White Pano E55, Cadillac CTS-V
My car on the old tune which was definitely not as good as this retune and at 1.5psi less boost did Dynojet SAE 664whp in cold weather on 93. On the retune day at same boost I picked up 25whp peak and up to 50 under the curve, it was 2300ft DA that day so the numbers were lower than the 664 in colder weather on a cold run but good improvements from the first pull before adjustments were made. There were also no cool runs made on the retune day and also no runs with the extra 1.5psi of boost. To verify the old tune the car has ran 10.7@132.5 on 93 octane with some tranny shifting trouble on the old tcu tune which has also been totally redone.
That is why I am pretty confident with the addition of ported blower and snout which this tuner always sees 40whp increase on that I will be right there at 700 with a cool pull. I guess time will tell, only 4 more days and then I will see what happens.
Either way, the exact number isn't important to me, just that the car is faster than it is now, which it will be, and with how fast it already is then it should be ridiculously awesome then.
That is why I am pretty confident with the addition of ported blower and snout which this tuner always sees 40whp increase on that I will be right there at 700 with a cool pull. I guess time will tell, only 4 more days and then I will see what happens.
Either way, the exact number isn't important to me, just that the car is faster than it is now, which it will be, and with how fast it already is then it should be ridiculously awesome then.
Last edited by urbamworm; 08-12-2013 at 02:20 PM.
08-12-2013, 04:09 PM
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2014 cls63 a amg. 2018 AMG GTR
sounds like your car would love a Killer Chiller. Cruise with a 50 degree IAT on a 100 degree day is pretty sweet. I recently beat the hell out of my car going up a long windy mountain road logging IATS. At the top my IATs were 75 degrees and it was 75 out. As long as you have a decent reservoir I dont think you can beat it. Think I paid around $900 installed.
Oh and a ported blower should make a pretty nice difference. Usually helps create less heat too.-
Oh and a ported blower should make a pretty nice difference. Usually helps create less heat too.-
08-12-2013, 05:00 PM
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05 White Pano E55, Cadillac CTS-V
Yeah probably, there was this crazy insane thread I read between two guys on the V forum battling one another for a "super chiller." It kind of scares you in to not going either way. LoL 
There was some guy who says he created them and was working for a shop, that shop kicked him out and he started his own little shop. The bigger shop said he is crazy, has lawsuit against him, blah blah blah, the bigger shop claims to not use anything of his and they made it all themselves. The "crazy guy" says he designed it all and has been for a few years but hasn't done a CTS-V yet, just XLR and other GM vehicles. Big shop ended up completing a kit on a V and it seemed to work good, but then there was word the owner later took it off. The thread then died about 5 months ago. Not sure if "crazy guy" ever got a chance to finish a kit for CTS-V. He sells his kits for $899 for "competition" one or little cheaper for the regular one, but was offering first kit at like $400. Someone said they saw "crazy guy's" setup on the XLR-V at Texas mile though and after a run the supercharger lid was cold so seemed to work good.
Pretty crazy stuff. They are both not to far from me either, actually where I am going Friday for the blower porting stuff in Tampa/St. Pete, but man I don't know if I would ever get in the middle of that mess and trust either one of them at this current point.
There was some guy who says he created them and was working for a shop, that shop kicked him out and he started his own little shop. The bigger shop said he is crazy, has lawsuit against him, blah blah blah, the bigger shop claims to not use anything of his and they made it all themselves. The "crazy guy" says he designed it all and has been for a few years but hasn't done a CTS-V yet, just XLR and other GM vehicles. Big shop ended up completing a kit on a V and it seemed to work good, but then there was word the owner later took it off. The thread then died about 5 months ago. Not sure if "crazy guy" ever got a chance to finish a kit for CTS-V. He sells his kits for $899 for "competition" one or little cheaper for the regular one, but was offering first kit at like $400. Someone said they saw "crazy guy's" setup on the XLR-V at Texas mile though and after a run the supercharger lid was cold so seemed to work good.
Pretty crazy stuff. They are both not to far from me either, actually where I am going Friday for the blower porting stuff in Tampa/St. Pete, but man I don't know if I would ever get in the middle of that mess and trust either one of them at this current point.
Last edited by urbamworm; 08-12-2013 at 05:03 PM.
08-12-2013, 08:17 PM
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you add Meth and go with a 9.5 lower you will be close to 700 with porting. You will need a 102TB as well. Otherwise don't get your hopes up. Getting that last 100hp's is very difficult.
08-12-2013, 08:34 PM
#74
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Technically I am probably making the same boost that 9.5 setup would make since my bypass was adjusted making up to 1.8psi more than the standard 2.5/9.1 setup makes.
