Vermicious

Hi all,

I’ve been searching and reading through many of the threads over the past several days, and have found some good information from those of you who have posted about doing an NTG 2.5 upgrade in E55’s. Thanks to those of you who have taken the time to put photos and links together as part of your upgrades. It’s been informative, but I have a couple of questions and am looking for some direction, so please try not to TL;DR on me.

I’m currently considering the purchase of an ’05 E55 that doesn’t have options/packages except for the Harman Kardon system and the CD changer. There’s no phone kit installed and no AUX.

On the priority list for me is:

• Bluetooth w/any of the capabilities of hands-free/voice dialing, etc.
• Navigation
• Sirius (more of a nice to have than requirement)

I’d like to retain the stock look/components and don’t mind putting a few grand into keeping the car looking factory, so I've been considering the NTG 2.5 upgrade. I realize from the reading that the HK system is going to cause me significantly more cost due to needing the sub and main amps. The car is in great shape and is a great price, which makes the investment in retrofitting more palatable.

I have been browsing the command.co.uk site and am trying to figure out what pieces would be necessary for me. I have emailed them, but haven't heard back.

I have a couple of questions if any of you could help direct me in making sure I’m looking at the right costs and issues:

Head unit:

1. Not having owned a MB before, I’m not sure what issues I’d run into buying a NTG 2.5 unit off of eBay or other sellers. I read on the command.co.uk site that there have been issues with stolen head units and getting them programmed correctly for these cars in that case. What do I need to do to ensure I’m getting the right item?
2. Since I have the HK system, do I need to have a different type of 2.5 unit for this or is the Logic7 built into all of them and just needs to be enabled?

Inventory of stuff I think I need (but not sure):

1. Head Unit ($___?)
2. Harmon Kardon to NTG2.5 Conversion set ($416)
   
3. Harmon Kardon Amplifer for NTG2.5 COMAND ($1393)
4. HK Subwoofer Amplifer for NTG2.5 COMAND ($347)
5. Microphone for Hard Disk COMAND-APS (NTG2.5)($68)
6. Genuine MB GPS Antenna with Right Angle Fakra ($102)
7. Sirius module A 211 870 33 89 ($___?)

Installation:

• Is this something that I could do myself on a weekend and how much of the car needs to be ripped apart to get to all of the components? I have no problem popping panels off and such if it's fairly plug and play once in there.
• What exactly do I need to do once the installation is done with a dealer or to get the car coded correctly to take advantage of the new system? Is there something specific I need to ask the service dept. to code into the car to make sure the dash display shows tracks and all of that?
• If I were to find someone who would install it, what would you think a reasonable price would be (trying to sell this concept to the spouse, so I'm needing figures. )

If you've made it this far, I really appreciate it. And if you have input or recommendations, I'm all ears. Thanks so much.

dbworld4k

Although I cannot help you, I just wanted to say that this is how you make a well thought out, easy-to-read post requesting help. People are more willing to contribute when they don't have to deal with a whole bunch of verbal diarrhea.

I was also looking into this a few weeks ago and backed out due to the costs involved. It seems like you have your parts list sorted. From there it should be easy enough to bolt everything in, it's just a matter of removing panels and the requisite coding.

Hopefully a more knowledgeable member chimes in.

JoeNobody

I did this same upgrade a year ago. It was a ton of work, but it looks awesome and works great.

The unit I bought had an older firmware on it, and did not have any issues of this. I believe there is an unlock code that was added in the newer firmware, and code can be used to install in different cars. I believe mechanic can also get unlock code from Mercedes if they verify head unit is not reported stolen.

All head units are the same. Logic7 is turned on/off using Star equipment. Only issue you will find is getting a head unit that has USA maps on it, as head unit with euro maps will not allow installing USA version. I fairly certain there is a work around to installing USA maps if you use Star system, but I have not done it myself since my head unit already had USA maps.

If car already has GPS (almost certain since it has HK audio), then you do not need GPS adapter as factory GPS antenna is used.
If car is pre-wired for telephone system (and I believe all 2003 and 2004 were), then you do not need the microphone part (but make sure conversion harness includes phone wire to connect to existing microphones).

You can find the two amps off ebay for modest prices if you watch new auctions closely (be sure to check auctions in other countries), although be 100% certain the amps are for W211 as the same amp is available for other models (and they will not work in other models)

Yes you can do it in a weekend. You have to run a bundle of wires from trunk to the head unit, but it's not that bad. Also have to fish wire from head unit up to controls above rear view mirror (also not bad).

You will almost certainly not find a dealer who is competent to do this. You need a star system running older software (I used 2010 version), and you need developer access, and you need to startup DAS using 2009 vin, and you need to change head unit settings using developer menu. This was by far the most difficult part of the install, as putting all of this together is not clear or obvious. If you live in the bay area I can refer you to someone who can do this part for cheap.

For sirius, if the car already has Sirius installed or if it's pre-wired (most, if not all of the 2003-2004 models had sirius pre-wiring), then adding NTG2.5 sirius is as simple as replacing the old sirius module with 2.5 unit. You can also add the Sirius HD module, if you add an HD antenna to the device (can leave antenna in the trunk). If car does not have Sirius wiring, then adding it would be quite a bit of work and I don't recommend it.

You can also add a backup camera that works perfectly with NTG2.5 head unit. If you don't plan on adding this, I would run a composite (RCA) cable along with the adapter harness bundle from the trunk to the head unit, as then you can add camera later without running another wire through car.

Look into adding an aux cable, as then you can add whatever stuff you want later. I installed a modified Airport Express so now I have lossless AirPlay streaming, although just adding a $20 Bluetooth A2DP streaming dongle would also work great (plus you can hide dongle away in the motorized pocket that does not work after upgrading).


Good luck!

WHTEVO

Subscribed

AMGPilot

this was an answer I gave someone last week in a PM.

You need to remove anything on the most ring that is NOT NTG 2.5 (In other words EVERYTHING that is in the car stock. Radio, Audio Gateway (Amp/tuner unit in the trunk) CTEL module, SDAR module (If installed) Lignuatronic module (If installed), CD Changer, Ipod Interface (If installed) Nav Processor/DVD Drive (If installed) Bluetooth Phone interface (If installed) You replace all that with NTG 2.5 headunit (which has Nav, Linguatronic, Bluetooth and DVD Changer built in), Main Amp, Sub Amp, SDAR/HD Radio module, Media Interface (Ipod interface) and a Conversion wiring harness from Comandonline.co.uk

Install takes me 8 hours and I charge $1000

NTG 2.5 headunit- I'm seeing these on ebay for $1400 I know this guy and his stuff works DON'T try to convert a euro unit, it's not just the maps that need to be changed out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-Mercede...978f05&vxp=mtr

NTG 2.5 conversion wiring harness, Comandonline.co.uk $450

http://www.commandonline.co.uk/W211-...on-NTG2.5.html

Main Amp- $1390 http://www.commandonline.co.uk/harmo...or_ntg2.5.html

Sub Amp- $400 - there is one on ebay now

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-2010-20...item58a8978df6

SDAR/HD Radio module- Usually $300

Media Interface (Ipod interface) - $399

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-2010-20...item3f2cc38f36

then you should get the media interface Plus (Bluetooth music streaming) $300

Bluetooth antenna, am/fm antenna adapter, Linguatronic stalk, microphone extension cable, backup camera and the updated antenna amp in the drivers c-pillar adds another $750 if you want video in motion thats another $250

Then there is a bit of STAR/DAS programming/updating that has to be done (It also updates the data card so the dealer sees a "Factory" install of a NTG 2.5) the dealer "Can" do this, but they have to bel walked thru it because in a normal module scan they will not see the NTG 2.5, there is a trick to get into and see it

Yes it's expensive but the sound quality is MUCH better, infact it's what the car should sound like. there is even decent sub-bass. Integration with dash is there and the car looks bone stock. GPS is now address level and if you choose to subscribe you have live traffic.

charging of an iPhone 5 is via USB cable, same as all previous iPhones.

Let me know if you have any other questions

Vermicious

Thanks for the comments. As a reader of these and other forums, I try to post the way that I would want to read. The more you can do your homework ahead of time and state what you know up front, the more likely you are to receive help. I'm glad you appreciated the format!

Vermicious

Thanks for taking the time to reply with all of that great information. This will probably be a very helpful thread to someone else in the future.

Vermicious

Fantastic detail, AMGPilot. I had read several of your responses to others on the topic, so I'm glad that you chimed in here as well.

You mentioned the upgrade in the sound quality -- curious what you think might have caused that if one was going from HK to HK. Shouldn't it sound the same or do the outboard amps make that much of a difference?

Arab_Homie

Would this process be the same in a w203? I have a 2.5 from a G wagon (fits perfectly) but I have been told it would be harder.

Also does the 2.5 have HD radio by default or is it an adapter or wire you need.

BagMan

Sorry to thread jack, but the data card for my 2004 E55 says I have NTG 2.5, but I'm almost certain it doesn't.

The menus are the same as any other stock 2004. I wonder why the data card say NTG 2.5?

gazosnic

this is a very difficult and expensive upgrade. I was looking into it myself and decided against it due to the cost and value prop w the new one. hoping someone makes a direct plug and play for the newer head unit that can use HK amp. Then would be worth it in my mind.

This install on those w/o HK isnt that bad.

JoeNobody

Some cars have this option, even though the head unit is still the same as all other pre 2009 cars. Most likely there is one or two NTG2.5 components somewhere in the system, but they're designed to work with the older head unit.

The good news though, is your car will take the retrofit without any Das hacking (meaning no Das developer access is needed, and only basic configuration using Das is needed).

JoeNobody

There's at least one Chinese head unit that is plug and play, and it work with HK audio.

theblckghst

Im looking into ripping out my CD changer and putting a digital media player in its place that way I can retain the stock look and have better sound.

BagMan

Thanks for the info. Probably not worth pursuing though.

typhoon43

I was also considering using my tax return to fund this project, but the cost is outlandish to me when I can get Kenwood's top of the line unit with a 7" touchscreen for 1200 dollars and then the streering wheel interface for 80.00. The Metra dash kit is 120.00. So I'm at 1400.00 for the setup. I can then go to my local stereo shop and have them paint/dip the dash kit to look better. At most that's a few hundred dollars. So for around 1700.00 I can have the absolute newest technology GPS/DVD/Bluetooth/Wifi/Sirius enabled deck with a bigger screen. Compared to the price of the NTG 2.5 conversion, I just can't see why I wouldn't go this route. NOW, I'm in a better spot because my 05 E55 came with a wonderful aftermarket Amp/Crossover/Sub/MB Quart setup, so I'm assuming I can just remove the stock NTG 1 headunit and plug the new deck into the converters my system already has. I just need to get my car to the shop and have them verify it before I throw down the cash.

AMGPilot

The head unit is NOT the same. they are very different. NO NTG 2.5 parts work with earlier systems, the most ring uses a different data protocol as does the can bus.

turbo97se

I believe he is saying that the guy may have an older head unit (same as pre-2009), but other components may be newer (amps possibly may be newer). He is saying that old head unit may work with newer amps and maybe that's why the data card shows NTG2.5 fitted.

Just curious if anyone has ever tried old head unit with newer amps? Just because newer and older protocols are different does not necessarily mean the newer amps are not backward compatible. Protocols are just SW.

In this particular case it'd be interesting to see what amps he really has installed. If this was a 2008 car in question, there may be a roll over period where they used NTG2.5 Amps. A 2004 car is unlikely to have newer amps installed.

AMGPilot

I don't know how to make this any clearer. the is ZERO compatibility between NTG 2.5 and previous systems.

If there is any 2.5 hardware on the ring with a earlier system or any older hardware on a NTG 2.5 system and you will have a most failure

BagMan

Any idea why NTG 2.5 is listed on my data card?

The car is an early 2004

mertd93

Can you post a picture of the data card or your vin I would like to see it.

BagMan

Yeah. I'll dig it up tomorrow

AMGPilot

How is it listed?

BagMan

mertd93

That's strange, have you had any recent softWare updates done by the dealer recently?
Btw, your car is loaded with factory options!