hllatif

Well I guess AMG disagree with you as they are going the other way now. Just look at the turbocharged 65s, that should tell you something.

EDWARD CONROY

Well, we'll have to wait and see. Road And Track had the E55 at 4.2. I read somewhere that the current M5 is 4.8 and the HP increase will improve on that to some extent. My own feeling is that at best, they'll pull even with us.

eclou

Since real life is not about getting to line up perfectly at every red light with an M5 ( or having 2 wide open lanes on a deserted superhighway, or 2 open lanes on a banked canyon rd ), it won't matter how much HP the M5 has.

It is damn near impossible to match the E55's acceleration because of the prodigious torque, and yes : torque = acceleration. You can add as many gears as you want to another car with less torque to try to match the E55 acceleration, but someone has to shift it and there will always be delays. Late 0.25 seconds on your downshift and the E55 driver will be 2 car lengths ahead getting ready to shut-down.

Just look at the fastest top-gear acceleration for any car tested by C&D 30-70mph - E55. If the Enzo can't beat it, neither will the M5. For the real world, E55 is the king. That's why no one out there is willing to try us.

jkrutch

It tells me that for some reason unknown to us, they chose turbo over sc, but I can tell you from real world experience that s'chargers are much better. Just becuase they (MB) are using turbos on the V12 it doesn't necessarily mean that it is better. There could be another reason. Maybe it is too expensive to develop the proper supercharger given the very limited numbers of the 65 cars. I am not an engineer by any means, but I believe it is easier and less expensive to turbo charge. There may not be enough units produced to amortize the cost of developing a supercharger for the 65.

Mr. Xristo

Perhaps... but the BMW has always been a "true" sportscar over the AMG.

HP is nice, but so it being able to corner your vehicle at high speeds without feeling like you are riding in a jello-mobile.

Don't misunderstand me, because I do like AMG vehicles, but prefer the handling of a BMW over an AMG.

Bilal

Any car with 4 doors is never a sportscar...

Mr. Xristo

Says whom?

At least you can track an M5.

Try the M5 vs. the E55 on the track and see which one handles better.

All I said is that both are lovely vehicles, but I feel that BMW produces better handling vehicles.

Dr Chill

Who doesn't?

norb

Of course you're not implying the E55 handles like a jello mobile right? Because it doesn't. Its just heavy and pushes at the front end at 10/10ths. But grip wize its not a jello mobile.

eclou

http://www.track-challenge.com/main_...1=48%26Car2=56

According to the Hockenheim track results, the E55 times are on par with any E39M5. You can track an M5, but most people will try it and give up. And BTW, ask Chill what he is doing at the track with his E55 - not just parade laps.

There is no question that the M5 has much better handling feel. However, don't ever mistake a 4000 lb car for a track vehicle. Just like my 110lb labrador will never be a lap dog (as much as he tries).

jkrutch

I don't necessarily agree with you...here's why. The C&D test results for top gear acceleration are just that...top gear....an automatic tranny will always win because of kick down that the manuals obviously don't have. If this test was "best gear" acceleration (30-50 & 50-70), the Enzo would have easily won. That test is actually meaningless for manual tranny cars.

As far as real world, the MB does have one big disadvantage...unless you have held either the shifter to the left or the button on the steering wheel to put the tranny in best gear mode, the time spent waiting for the kickdown could lose a race against a SMG or regular manual tranny car which is already in best gear. While no race car driver, I can certainly shift my 6 speed 996 much faster and much harder than the MB auto tranny does.

norb

But can you do it as smoothly as the auto tranny? Never.

eclou

Realistically unless you drive around with your car locked&loaded- holding lower gears and foot ready to mash on the throttle, my wife will take you between stoplights and passing on the highway 9 times out of 10, no matter if you are in a Nowack M5 or an Enzo (c'mon, the only one I have ever seen was in Maranello, Italy at the Museo de Ferrari) because you will never see it coming. And, she can do so while changing radio stations and sipping her iced tea.

BMW, Porsche, and Ferrari have all touted the quick shifting capabilities of the F1, SMG, Tip but when it comes down to it, they are still slower than their manual counterparts. And manuals are only as fast as the driver's ability to react. I have been beaten off stoplights and in traffic gaps in my 260+rwhp 6spd 3.64 rear end M3 by Galants when I don't anticipate the situation and downshift. An auto eliminates that problem.

norb

Actually my SMG could shift faster than humanly possible. But it was violent and never smooth. Why else would they use it for F1 if not for faster shifting.

eclou

Yes the M3 SMG is supposed to shift faster than humanly possible, but no road test has ever shown the SMG to match the times of the stick. I don't think the weight difference is enough to make a difference so somehow I think we're being hoodwinked. IF the times were even equal it would be impressive.

jkrutch

Norb....Compared to a sports car it doesn't handle well, compared to my sister's Lexus the E55 handles like a race car. It all depends on the reference point you're using. It does need a serious diet and much more tire in the rear.

Pierre32///AMG

in addition to the cost reason, MB or AMG has to build a HUGE SC that probably not even the driver will be able to see the road. Basically, the problem in "volume".....where even the SC on the 55 is not as big to really use the full potential of the 5.4l V8. The C32 has not that problem...not even a potential C35 with a RENNtech or MKB 3.7 V6 conversion.....but more than that a CL65 will needed a HUGE SC.
Well, with turbo you do not have that problem because there is no problem of volume (inch^3).... turbos spin almost to infinite volume .... no matter the cc or inch^3 of your engine.
:p

norb

We were comparing the E55 to the M5 though. So no the E55 is not a jello mobile compared to the M5.

And we've already established that the E55 is not an all out sports car, so why compare it to them? Sure the Porsche Turbo will out handle it but then compared to a formula one car the Turbo is a jello mobile?

MadManAboutTown

Go away, you're just a nuisance.

Dr Chill

I love the refernce in this thread on the M5 borad to the E55 being a couch on wheels. That's one fine looking couch that hauls ***.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sh...?threadid=37180

vraa

Torque = real life.

Blocktrader

It's kind of ironic that the last time I was at the track, there were two E55's (myself and dr chill) and I saw no M5's. The front tires are what holds the E55 back at the track. Also, the car lacks consistent engine braking making it difficult to make mid corner adjustments.

Dr Chill

Brakes? Who needs them? I've been driving the last 400 miles without them. It's incredible how bad the car slows down now that my pads are gone.

dNA3D

torque curve + gear ratios + rev limiter - weight = real life

Bilal

AMG+Mercedes-Benz = Screwed+BMW+M