Absolutely befuddling idle vibration...need the big guns
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Clifton, NJ
96 and 08 911 turbos
ok, so took some time over the weekend to analyze.
Steps taken:
Lifted car on all corners
replaced exhaust bracket rubber mount, no change
put car in gear in the air and poked around for vibration. Could not find an obvious source.
the harmonic dampner looks like its got some vertical runout to it but it looks similar to the original and every other m113 i've seen so I don't think thats the problem.
I used a floor jack to support the motor, no change so i believe my motor mounts are ok.
one weird shifting oddity i've noticed lately. After the car shifts, it bogs for a milli-second before re-engaging the power. So instead of a smooth flow of power through the shift, there is a little hiccup. Not motor related.
Drove it on the highway and got excellent smooth performance with good fuel economy. If you were on the highway you'd think the car was just fine.
If I end up keeping the car, I think torque converter is something I need to have replaced.
Steps taken:
Lifted car on all corners
replaced exhaust bracket rubber mount, no change
put car in gear in the air and poked around for vibration. Could not find an obvious source.
the harmonic dampner looks like its got some vertical runout to it but it looks similar to the original and every other m113 i've seen so I don't think thats the problem.
I used a floor jack to support the motor, no change so i believe my motor mounts are ok.
one weird shifting oddity i've noticed lately. After the car shifts, it bogs for a milli-second before re-engaging the power. So instead of a smooth flow of power through the shift, there is a little hiccup. Not motor related.
Drove it on the highway and got excellent smooth performance with good fuel economy. If you were on the highway you'd think the car was just fine.
If I end up keeping the car, I think torque converter is something I need to have replaced.
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Joined: Jul 2012
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From: Canada
07 E63 + 07 CLK63CAB
"the harmonic dampner looks like its got some vertical runout to it but it looks similar to the original".
Have you changed out the original balancer for another, is it an OEM new or used. A vertical run out could be the source of you issue. Do you see any tensioner movement caused by the runout?
Have you changed out the original balancer for another, is it an OEM new or used. A vertical run out could be the source of you issue. Do you see any tensioner movement caused by the runout?
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 39
From: Clifton, NJ
96 and 08 911 turbos
"the harmonic dampner looks like its got some vertical runout to it but it looks similar to the original".
Have you changed out the original balancer for another, is it an OEM new or used. A vertical run out could be the source of you issue. Do you see any tensioner movement caused by the runout?
Have you changed out the original balancer for another, is it an OEM new or used. A vertical run out could be the source of you issue. Do you see any tensioner movement caused by the runout?
The issue did not start after replacing the dampner and there is no play when i try to move it with my hand. Unless it spun the outer part on the inner, then i'm not sure why it would be an issue.
I'm more and more convinced its a torque converter.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Clifton, NJ
96 and 08 911 turbos
Got your PM. It can be the torque converter when placed under load. (Drive) Any high pitched whines on startup from the TC area? Any noise from TC when revving in Neutral or Park? I can give you a typical sound clip if needed. They really howl when failure is imminent & then take out the tranny oil pump.
From everything you have stated this is a mechanical issue or noise & not related to tuning & electronics. It might be a harmonic or primary mechanical noise. The fact that it only occurs when you load the engine is telling.
It could be anything from something touching e.g. exhaust heat shield, to a rear tranny mount, to a TC, to a piece of Cat monolith that has broken off, to a loose tail shaft flange nut on the transmission, the EECS circuit & purge valve or sympathetic vibration that needs to be moved out of the audible spectrum. The joys of NVH engineering.
I suggest you buy a $5 mechanic's stethescope, place the car on a hoist with brakes on & in Drive & tie down exactly where the noise is emanating from.
Good Luck
From everything you have stated this is a mechanical issue or noise & not related to tuning & electronics. It might be a harmonic or primary mechanical noise. The fact that it only occurs when you load the engine is telling.
It could be anything from something touching e.g. exhaust heat shield, to a rear tranny mount, to a TC, to a piece of Cat monolith that has broken off, to a loose tail shaft flange nut on the transmission, the EECS circuit & purge valve or sympathetic vibration that needs to be moved out of the audible spectrum. The joys of NVH engineering.
I suggest you buy a $5 mechanic's stethescope, place the car on a hoist with brakes on & in Drive & tie down exactly where the noise is emanating from.
Good Luck
1. The TC doesn't appear to make any unusual noise. If you can post a soundclip that would be great.
2. I have checked exhaust heat shields and found no issues. Trans mount is essentially new.
3. There is no rattling from the Cat, 02 sensor readings are normal, and the car gets good gas mileage with good power. I would think a Cat issue would affect performance.
4. what is the EECS circuit? the purge valve I'm guessing you mean the fuel tank/charcoal canister fume purge? It ticks like normal when its working.
5. I used the mechanic stethascope and found nothing.
I held onto the front halfshafts while at idle and noticed nothing unusual.
thanks again guys.
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From: Canada
07 E63 + 07 CLK63CAB
Not trying to convince you of the HB being the issue but I found this on a MBworld site, read into the second page where a guy has tried just about everything you have to solve his vibration issue. Search-Please confirm recall if you can -harmonic balancer .
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,556
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From: Canada
07 E63 + 07 CLK63CAB
Please confirm recall if you can -harmonic balancer - Page 2 ...
www.benzworld.org › ... › R129 SL Class
Apologize, just did a google search for Corteco harmonic balancer issues and found this, it seems this fellow has run the gauntlet trying to find out his vibration issue.
www.benzworld.org › ... › R129 SL Class
Apologize, just did a google search for Corteco harmonic balancer issues and found this, it seems this fellow has run the gauntlet trying to find out his vibration issue.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 39
From: Clifton, NJ
96 and 08 911 turbos
hmm, so I purchased a new Corteco balancer last summer. The casting was a bit crappy, but beyond that it appeared to be fine. Installed it, torqued bolt to spec, and it made no difference (back then the idle was better anyway). Unless the rubber separated, I'm not sure this is the issue.
I continue to go back to the torque converter.
I continue to go back to the torque converter.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,556
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From: Canada
07 E63 + 07 CLK63CAB
To go back a little, do you see any movement in the belt tensioner when the engine is at idle. The rubber does not actually separate but gets moved around as the two metal pieces shift. In extreme cases yes the rubber would start to come out as shown in some of the pics, believe it was a Mustang HB.
If you are in for some experimenting, remove the serpentine belt and using some tape fasten securely a small 1/4 oz wheel weight to the outside of the balancer, start the car and see if there is any difference in the vibration. Idle only. While you are placing the weight check for bulging rubber.
If you are in for some experimenting, remove the serpentine belt and using some tape fasten securely a small 1/4 oz wheel weight to the outside of the balancer, start the car and see if there is any difference in the vibration. Idle only. While you are placing the weight check for bulging rubber.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 39
From: Clifton, NJ
96 and 08 911 turbos
To go back a little, do you see any movement in the belt tensioner when the engine is at idle. The rubber does not actually separate but gets moved around as the two metal pieces shift. In extreme cases yes the rubber would start to come out as shown in some of the pics, believe it was a Mustang HB.
If you are in for some experimenting, remove the serpentine belt and using some tape fasten securely a small 1/4 oz wheel weight to the outside of the balancer, start the car and see if there is any difference in the vibration. Idle only. While you are placing the weight check for bulging rubber.
If you are in for some experimenting, remove the serpentine belt and using some tape fasten securely a small 1/4 oz wheel weight to the outside of the balancer, start the car and see if there is any difference in the vibration. Idle only. While you are placing the weight check for bulging rubber.
I checked for bulging rubber while under the car the other day and did not notice anything untoward.
Will try the weight trick as well.
thanks man, really appreciate the ideas.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 39
From: Clifton, NJ
96 and 08 911 turbos
alrighty fellas, heres the video. The balancer has a tiny bit of play, but it doesn't seem outrageous. This was with the car in drive and the parking brake on.
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1
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2005 S500 4 Matic
Vibration
I have the exact year and model. I am not sure but I think I am experiencing the same vibration. Only occurs at idle in gear but its it more of a feel than audible and it is not always there. Sometimes it fades. Or comes and goes. The rear view mirror will vibrate. Wish I could fix it but have not really gone to any extremes to figure it out. It seems to have nothing to do with performance at all. Seems like some kind of mechanicle resonance. Hope to learn something from this thread.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2009
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'06 MB S55 AMG; '04 Audi Allroad 4.2; '05 BMW M3 Conv.; '92 MB 500E
This sounds like classic motor and trans mounts (to be done at the same time), right about...now. Car 8-10 years old, otherwise well maintained, etc. I'd take it to a stealer, just cuz it's a known issue, one that they cannot likely get wrong, diagnosis wise. After that, save a few bucks and have your Indy do the repair. Should be around a grand, including parts and labor. Good luck.
Cheers,
maw
Cheers,
maw
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,556
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From: Canada
07 E63 + 07 CLK63CAB
Try cleaning your throttle body, a build up occurs between the throttle plate and the barrel which restricts the air at idle. With key in the on position after removing intake piping have someone hold the gas pedal to the floor, this should open the throttle. With the throttle open use some "Intake Cleaner Spray" on a rag to wipe residual gunk off of the back of the throttle plate and around the inside of the barrel. A tooth brush wrapped in a rag works well to get into the barrel. You will be amazed at what comes out on that rag.
If you prefer remove the throttle body from the back of the super charger and clean it off the car.
If you prefer remove the throttle body from the back of the super charger and clean it off the car.
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 62
Likes: 3
From: NorCal
2011 ML550 2013 GLK350
Bumping this - I've got the same issue with '02 CLK55. At idle, in gear, not really that noticeable until you take you foot off the brake and the car starts to crawl. With the slightest speed it's gone. I'd assumed it was the engine mounts, one of which was shot, had them and tranny mounts replaced. Just wondering if this was resolved in this case ...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2009
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'06 MB S55 AMG; '04 Audi Allroad 4.2; '05 BMW M3 Conv.; '92 MB 500E
Did you ever get yours sorted?
maw
