Ranking mods that reduce IAT's the best
10-06-2016, 04:58 PM
#51
MBWorld Fanatic!
The EC logging sw is very slow. Even tuners don't like it or take it with a grain of salt,it was made to appease people.
DA and air temps do make a diff to what extent? It depends on who you ask but junky ran very low 11s in soflo goes to Mir and runs 10.7x, same weight ,same tune with q16 when he had the stock blower
DA and air temps do make a diff to what extent? It depends on who you ask but junky ran very low 11s in soflo goes to Mir and runs 10.7x, same weight ,same tune with q16 when he had the stock blower
10-06-2016, 06:45 PM
#52
MBWorld Fanatic!
I haven't read the rainbow comments (can you guys just use [*quote]** and **[*/*quote]** please? - take out the stars) - but IAT is clearly pulling timing. We have the data. Knock sensors will also pull timing based upon a certain number of events over a certain number of RPMs. That is clear in everyone's mind, right?
You reduce knock in some of the same ways one would reduce IAT - better intercooling, more water/meth to cool the incoming charge more.
You reduce knock in many ways unrelated to IAT - such as fuel type, actual timing retard, and of course physical system ways like reduced dynamic and effective compression.
That said, you have a much harder time reducing knock in an engine ingesting 140 degree air, no matter WHAT you do with those details of physical construction, timing, and fuel composition. HENCE the reason for reducing IATs.
And as indicated, telling the computer that the air is cooler is different than injecting enough water/meth to actually cool the air to that temperature, or cooling it via the intercooler (which, honestly, other than heat exchanging, is a fixed value, barring massive changes to the physical makup of the system, i.e., side mounted intercoolers.
What is the one issue with the LSAs that everyone fights and immediately spends money on? The heat issues. They go to e85 and they expand the heat exchanging systems. Same as us.
You reduce knock in some of the same ways one would reduce IAT - better intercooling, more water/meth to cool the incoming charge more.
You reduce knock in many ways unrelated to IAT - such as fuel type, actual timing retard, and of course physical system ways like reduced dynamic and effective compression.
That said, you have a much harder time reducing knock in an engine ingesting 140 degree air, no matter WHAT you do with those details of physical construction, timing, and fuel composition. HENCE the reason for reducing IATs.
And as indicated, telling the computer that the air is cooler is different than injecting enough water/meth to actually cool the air to that temperature, or cooling it via the intercooler (which, honestly, other than heat exchanging, is a fixed value, barring massive changes to the physical makup of the system, i.e., side mounted intercoolers.
What is the one issue with the LSAs that everyone fights and immediately spends money on? The heat issues. They go to e85 and they expand the heat exchanging systems. Same as us.
10-06-2016, 08:36 PM
#53
You and your heat issues for your glory passes. I find it so comical when people use killer chillers on the street with little to no avail. Or the oh so great iceboxes that are friggen worthless after 2 hard pulls on the street.
Seriously now. Like I said before. You are digging deep. I ran low 11s around 800+ DA and like 65f outside. My car is nothing special. Why do you think everyone goes to MIR when they want to make a point? The DA there gets NEGATIVE 2,000+. That is insane.
Get a solid heat exchanger and be happy with your car. If you don't like it, get into a different platform or get used to filling up a nitrous bottle.
DA and air temperature are HUGE. Are you serious?
Seriously now. Like I said before. You are digging deep. I ran low 11s around 800+ DA and like 65f outside. My car is nothing special. Why do you think everyone goes to MIR when they want to make a point? The DA there gets NEGATIVE 2,000+. That is insane.
Get a solid heat exchanger and be happy with your car. If you don't like it, get into a different platform or get used to filling up a nitrous bottle.
DA and air temperature are HUGE. Are you serious?
10-06-2016, 09:33 PM
#58
Member
I haven't read the rainbow comments (can you guys just use [*quote]** and **[*/*quote]** please? - take out the stars) - but IAT is clearly pulling timing. We have the data. Knock sensors will also pull timing based upon a certain number of events over a certain number of RPMs. That is clear in everyone's mind, right?
You reduce knock in some of the same ways one would reduce IAT - better intercooling, more water/meth to cool the incoming charge more.
You reduce knock in many ways unrelated to IAT - such as fuel type, actual timing retard, and of course physical system ways like reduced dynamic and effective compression.
That said, you have a much harder time reducing knock in an engine ingesting 140 degree air, no matter WHAT you do with those details of physical construction, timing, and fuel composition. HENCE the reason for reducing IATs.
And as indicated, telling the computer that the air is cooler is different than injecting enough water/meth to actually cool the air to that temperature, or cooling it via the intercooler (which, honestly, other than heat exchanging, is a fixed value, barring massive changes to the physical makup of the system, i.e., side mounted intercoolers.
What is the one issue with the LSAs that everyone fights and immediately spends money on? The heat issues. They go to e85 and they expand the heat exchanging systems. Same as us.
You reduce knock in some of the same ways one would reduce IAT - better intercooling, more water/meth to cool the incoming charge more.
You reduce knock in many ways unrelated to IAT - such as fuel type, actual timing retard, and of course physical system ways like reduced dynamic and effective compression.
That said, you have a much harder time reducing knock in an engine ingesting 140 degree air, no matter WHAT you do with those details of physical construction, timing, and fuel composition. HENCE the reason for reducing IATs.
And as indicated, telling the computer that the air is cooler is different than injecting enough water/meth to actually cool the air to that temperature, or cooling it via the intercooler (which, honestly, other than heat exchanging, is a fixed value, barring massive changes to the physical makup of the system, i.e., side mounted intercoolers.
What is the one issue with the LSAs that everyone fights and immediately spends money on? The heat issues. They go to e85 and they expand the heat exchanging systems. Same as us.
What I want to know is if we inject in the surge tanks (as RedBullJunky did) will we see higher gains than just after the intercooler or in the Y (ala Denroll).
Right now I am only looking at this from a meth nozzle install as that is what I am doing.
I helped tune E85 on a previous big block blower car making big horsepower. Being able to touch a littlefield blower after a full dyno run and find it covered in condensation was an eye opener. Having to use 200lb/hr injectors was not.
For my current ambitions I am not willing to convert.
Thanks for the info,
Sean
Last edited by seanol; 10-06-2016 at 09:35 PM.
10-07-2016, 02:13 AM
#59
Super Member
......
Erebus, Sean
So in your estimation, without moving the IAT sensor, where is the best place for the meth nozzle? That is the issue with our set-up......there really isn't an ideal location. The IAT sensor is too close to the intercooler for any type of aggressive GPH nozzle placement. The ones here defending their nozzle locations are utilizing only half of the required GPH flow needed to contain our set-ups. Proper meth/water injection can maintain and/or actually lower IAT's during activation.
Intercooler seems to be the largest producer of heat after the supercharger. Closest we can get is right after it which is about 4-6 inches away from the IAT sensor. That is not enough distance for the meth/water to fully vaporize. The IAT sensor and MAP sensors are getting soaked at times during aggressive activation. Sooner than later it will cause sensor failures.
Before supercharger seems to give poor results from the threads I have read here. Before intercooler has the potential to slow down the airflow. You are spot on. Not only air flow, though. I have tested this theory and found the unvaporized meth/water was actually insulating the intercooler core from the hot air.....
Am I missing a spot? Nope.
Otherwise, in the y or just after the intercooler seem to be it. I like the y just for the reason that it is more accessible if I want to experiment.
As you stated previously we are fooling it either way (there is cooling going on as well but we are not really measuring the exact amount due to wet bulb effect on sensor) Agreed.
So in your estimation, without moving the IAT sensor, where is the best place for the meth nozzle? That is the issue with our set-up......there really isn't an ideal location. The IAT sensor is too close to the intercooler for any type of aggressive GPH nozzle placement. The ones here defending their nozzle locations are utilizing only half of the required GPH flow needed to contain our set-ups. Proper meth/water injection can maintain and/or actually lower IAT's during activation.
Intercooler seems to be the largest producer of heat after the supercharger. Closest we can get is right after it which is about 4-6 inches away from the IAT sensor. That is not enough distance for the meth/water to fully vaporize. The IAT sensor and MAP sensors are getting soaked at times during aggressive activation. Sooner than later it will cause sensor failures.
Before supercharger seems to give poor results from the threads I have read here. Before intercooler has the potential to slow down the airflow. You are spot on. Not only air flow, though. I have tested this theory and found the unvaporized meth/water was actually insulating the intercooler core from the hot air.....
Am I missing a spot? Nope.
Otherwise, in the y or just after the intercooler seem to be it. I like the y just for the reason that it is more accessible if I want to experiment.
As you stated previously we are fooling it either way (there is cooling going on as well but we are not really measuring the exact amount due to wet bulb effect on sensor) Agreed.
10-07-2016, 07:05 AM
#61
I was being very sarcastic. Post your full mod list. You're going to make some of internet-impared think they can run a 10 second pass with a stock e55 and better IATs for the first 2 second of your pass.
10-08-2016, 01:20 AM
#62
MBWorld Fanatic!
KC + meth + trunk tank = IAT under control
That's the best way to control temps on this car
That's the best way to control temps on this car
10-08-2016, 12:47 PM
#63
MBWorld Fanatic!
I use 2 heat exchangers a 5 gallon trunk tank and 4 CM30 pumps and a single pass Intercooler to keep my IAT s down .��
10-09-2016, 09:54 AM
#64
MBWorld Fanatic!
10-09-2016, 10:35 AM
#65
MBWorld Fanatic!
Well it depends on ambient temp,but typically cruising around 10-15 deg over ,and on a qtr mile pass 55 to 60 deg rise from starting temp ,if there's ice in the tank then a little cooler ,a normal qtr mile pass (no ice) is followed by an almost immediate recovery to 15 deg over ambient .This has been the consistent number over three years of data logging .so that's the number in temp rise 55-60 deg Fahrenheit from starting temp which works fine for me.
This same set up in a car that runs say 12 lbs boost vs one that could run 20 lbs of boost would obviously differ in above values so that would be a factor also .
This same set up in a car that runs say 12 lbs boost vs one that could run 20 lbs of boost would obviously differ in above values so that would be a factor also .
Last edited by cnterline; 10-09-2016 at 10:38 AM.
10-09-2016, 11:45 AM
#66
Junior Member
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2006 Mercedes Benz E55 AMG
Well it depends on ambient temp,but typically cruising around 10-15 deg over ,and on a qtr mile pass 55 to 60 deg rise from starting temp ,if there's ice in the tank then a little cooler ,a normal qtr mile pass (no ice) is followed by an almost immediate recovery to 15 deg over ambient .This has been the consistent number over three years of data logging .so that's the number in temp rise 55-60 deg Fahrenheit from starting temp which works fine for me.
This same set up in a car that runs say 12 lbs boost vs one that could run 20 lbs of boost would obviously differ in above values so that would be a factor also .
This same set up in a car that runs say 12 lbs boost vs one that could run 20 lbs of boost would obviously differ in above values so that would be a factor also .
10-09-2016, 01:20 PM
#67
MBWorld Fanatic!
So at 90* you are starting at 100* and ending at 160*. So losing power up top in summer months. Pulley size!?!?!
I would cruise with 60* in 90* on the street and 85* on hwy with a 195 CP. I would max out at 113-120*.
I would cruise with 60* in 90* on the street and 85* on hwy with a 195 CP. I would max out at 113-120*.
10-09-2016, 07:08 PM
#68
MBWorld Fanatic!
10-09-2016, 07:15 PM
#69
MBWorld Fanatic!
Seems like your set up is working for you with those temps.
10-09-2016, 07:42 PM
#71
MBWorld Fanatic!
Lucky you for few 90 days. We hit 90 from March to Oct here in AL. Never DD or track my E but wanted to ensure all the power I could get was on tap at my command with all my mods.
10-09-2016, 10:56 PM
#72
MBWorld Fanatic!
There is a company that sells a liquid that doesnt heat past 90 degrees. I heard that some geys use it and swear it works, but on a different platform. Maybe some of the geys here can try it.
10-09-2016, 10:59 PM
#73
can an you provide more details on your dual h/e setup and where all your pumps are physically installed/located and each ones purpose?
thanks
tk
10-09-2016, 11:01 PM
#74
from what I have read (I am no chemist) "nothing cools like water".
10-09-2016, 11:32 PM
#75
MBWorld Fanatic!
I have an SL different set up ,ask a guy with an E how they plumbed their cars with a trunk tank ,I was just sharing what I did to help my cooling
