M6toE55

...and how about the looks of the new v8 caddie... a sub 5-sec 0-60 is not too shabby for the 1/4-mile. Unfortunately it's such a butt-ugly sedan... not to mention the new 'vette or or mustang... both BMW and MB will have much more to contend with than they ever have in the past - I'm sure the real winners will be us consumers. Thoughts?

Nickerz

Okay amg55...

I'll tone it down a little.

PS I drive a Kia and that station wagon from National Lampoon! It does 0-60mph in 6 minutes but once it gets going, look out! Don't tell me I'm spoiled! Car goes so fast the wood paneling on the side is starting to come loose.

Last time I checked, judging one by the car they drive seems a little insecure to me but hey, that's what fast cars and big trucks are for right! ;-)

I am 72 years old and I'm addicted to station wagons.

W210

Let me add my two cents.

Just finally test drove the 530i with active steering today. I have had my 2004 E55 for about 4 months. Prior to the 2004 E55, I had the 2003 SL500 and before that, 2000 and 2001 E55. The purpose of my test drive was to check out the new 5 series to see if I should hold my spot for the M5.

My personal priorities when purchasing my daily ‘work horse’:

1. Resale value
2. Safety
3. Performance
4. Ergonomics
5. Comfort
6. Appearance

As you can see, I care a lot about the engineering aspect of a car.

However, I agree with those who find the E60 extremely unattractive. I don’t mind the rear, the side, but I find the headlights and the front of the car truly, absolutely ugly.

And I am rather shocked by the really poor ergonomics. This is the revised iDrive and I expected BMW to have done a better job. For those who use the car phone regularly, the iDrive interface is a joke. Instead of having a simple numeric keypad, you’re stuck with a virtue linear keypad:

0123456789+#*

I got carsick from entering a simple phone number. As one can imagine, with iDrive in the 5 series, every digit requires the driver twist and turn the knob back and forth and taking your eyes off the road.

I’m not an engineer but the following layout will make much more sense:

123
456
789
*0#

or even:

789
456
123
*0#

Of course, a simple numeric keypad is the best. As of now, BMW managed to complicate a 5 seconds task into a 1-minute challenge. Trust me, using the knob to enter phone numbers is a truly tedious task. In the 7 series, you have a hideaway keypad but they have eliminated that in the 5.

Without the numeric keypad, one will not be able to easily punch in phone numbers, one will not be able to jump to preset radio stations, one will not be able to dial stored phone entries with one touch.

Can you imagine the stress one has to go through, if one has to key in a call back number, or passwords?

And it will simply be impossible for a BMW driver in the E60 to use iDrive to dial, say 1-800-BMW-HELP, as he or she will not know that B stands for 2 and M stands for 6.

Same challenge if you have to access an automated PBX directory as you will not be able to spell a name without an alpha-numeric keypad!

I haven’t tested the voice prompt and I hope it will at least have the capacity to translate A into 2 and T into 8. Otherwise, one must carry a cheat sheet.

On the positive note, I do like the added agility thanks to the active steering. Excellent handling. Nice progressive brakes. Lovely thick steering wheel. The sports seats are very comfortable with lots of thigh support for tall drivers. You can tilt the upper portion of the front seat backs which you cannot in the E55. For those who complain about the narrow W211 E55 seats, they will be happy with the larger size seats in the E60. Larger trunk, much more rear seat legroom compared to the E39. Optional rear seat heaters (unavailable on the W211). Lots of headroom.

However, the interior plastic pieces do look very cheap made of low quality, the cup holder took 5 pushes to snap back in place, the steering column constantly rubbed my right knee (a 6 foot 1 driver). No auto trunk closer! If one is not convinced of the cheapness of the interior, take a look at the rear center overhead light cluster or the center storage area between the front seats.

Instead of useful functional buttons, you see large pieces of wood veneer. All in the name of the very subjective ‘elegant, clean, modern’ look.

My opinion is that iDrive is actually made for those who are afraid of technology. It helps to hide away the unfamiliar buttons to a naïve operator. Unfortunately, it complicates simple functions resulting in an ergonomic disaster. A dash of an automobile is judged by its ergonomics and not by its superficial appearance.

I much prefer the interior of the E55. It is far more elegant and expensive looking but most importantly, much more user-friendly. Our inability to scan preset radio stations on the steering wheel is nothing compared to the stupid knob. New found respect for the numeric keypad and buttons in my E55.

Nevertheless, I have ordered an overnight test drive of the 545i. Stay tuned.

By the way, I did put my money down for the E60 M5, a fully refundable deposit. I hope BMW will debug the unacceptable telematics in the 2005 model.

EDWARD CONROY

Excellent review, W210. How did you find the cornering? C&D said body roll is virtually eliminated, which they did not feel was a good thing as the sensation of speed is lost. I could see that. If cornering has no sensation of danger, of pushing the envelope at high speeds successfully, where's the fun?

Sad about the phone. I have voice control now for the second time. Although the key pad is easy to use, there's great safety and convenience in just pulling on the stalk and saying dial name. And she has such a sweet voice. LOL Other than wishing the side bolsters were a tad farther apart, I find our interior a wonderful place to spend time in. All very pleasing to the eye, even the gauge cluster in my opinion. The buttons are all big enough for ease of use. A scan button on the steering wheel and they'd have been home free.

Thank God for individual taste. What a world it would be without it. But I have owned a BMW and would 100% have waited for the M5 if the styling was better. If one likes it or at least finds it acceptable, that's great. The E60-M5 is sure to be a fantastic car. I love the beast inside and out and while I'll never have quite the handling, I will have over 500 HP before long.

W210

Edward, thanks for your feedback.

Unfortunately, 3 passengers tagged along so I was not in a fair position to test the car's cornering ability with the extra weight. This is why I scheduled an overnight test drive of the 545i.

The positive aspect I noticed was the slow speed agility. The car felt very nimble with active steering in the city so I do disagree with Car and Driver’s complaint. I have yet to take the car on the highway. In general, I do prefer to have as little body roll as possible. I hardly ever push the car to its absolute limit when cornering so a sudden break away is not a huge concern for me. I would think I can usually hear the tire noise first.

However, I have been completely turned off by the offensive front end and the poor ergonomics. It is the latter that really bothers me. Inconsiderate arrogance, lack of vision comes to mind. Please, give me practical functionality over irrelevant silly themes.

If the deposit were non-refundable I would surely not have put my money down.

EDWARD CONROY

I'll be anxiously awaiting your review of the 545. The M5 was the superstar, but for an all around package; looks, speed, cornering, every day driveability and price, I think the 540 was the best car in the BMW lineup. I would expect the 545 to be quite impressive.

Nickerz

WOW W210!

That was one of the better reviews I've seen in this forum! Even though it was on a car that I don't particularly care for I found it very interesting to read! Really good job my man!

Car&Driver would be at a loss for words after that review! LOL!

I wonder if engineers simply have so much pressure from marketing to get a car on the show rooms that they are forced to overlook important details that you brought up in your review (i.e, entering phone #'s and simplistic things of that nature)? I feel they are, thus the oversight of what would make common sense to the average joe.

krispykrme

My point exactly. I just believe that C&D was smoking crack in blasting E60's handling and AFS. I just found it to be light year ahead of W211.

Regarding the front, i do not think it is that bad. Then again, everyone has their own taste. So no comment on that.

Cheap interior, well this is very true as compared to W210 or W211. But it's actually better than the regular 530i that i used to own. I had to have my entire front console replaced after I used a post-it notes on the dash and left it outside in hot it. That left a white mark on the dash. So it was replaced under warranty. I also have broke at least 4 temp adjust buttons. That is cheap.

I still hates I-drive. I think we all can agree with that. I-drive is by far the worst thing ever happened to a car.

W210

While I welcome the lack of body roll, good brakes and sharp steering, I was disappointed with the steering column rubbing against my right knee and do agree with Car and Driver about the poor steering wheel adjustments.

I also find the steptronic counter-intuitive. I expect pulling the lever towards me resulting in a downshift, not an upshift, based on the traditional layout:
P
R
N
D
4
3
2
1

+
-

However, BMW, for the sake of being different, suddenly changed its arrangement between their 2001 and 2002 cars reversing the standard layout to the following:

-
+

Looks aside, I worry whether the poor ergonomics in the new 5 will ultimately spoil the fun for me. For now I cannot imagine myself coping with the pathetic telematics , navigation, audio control, regardless how well the car handles!

aaron300z

Over 500 hp without a Kompressor or Turbo and
a 8350 RPM.

aaron300z

aaron300z

norb

norb

8000rpms? Hope the engine doesn't blow up like on the M3s! One reason I sold my M3, BTW.

Nickerz

Holy ***** norb! I was rolling when I saw that pic! Feminine looks that not even Ru Paul could match!

THANK YOU!

The similarities are uncanny! LOL!

Not to mention...I think that damn face of the 5 series looks like a dragon...with it's beady, evil looking eyes.

krispykrme

If this is typical BMW quality, most likely it will blow up for the 1st batch.

But my late M3 engine is quiet good. Never drank much oil, and behave just great.

MB Life

That's funny Norb!

:p

Bikr Boy

As a BMW driver since 1973, I am very sad to see the design turn of the new 7 but mostly the new 5 and 6 seires. I had a deposit on a 6 coupe. Saw it at the Detroit auto show and was quite shocked at how "cheap" it looked for a $75,000 car. The interior makes a Porsche's look like the lap of luxury. The wood looked like plastic and it was so plain that it was just unbelievable. Also, no sun roof. That alone was a deal breaker. I was so shocked that I came back another day for a second look. No change. Still bad.

The 545 i then was my next choice. That rear end is worse than the 7. Hard to believe. The interior looked cheap. Not as bad as the 6 but bad. The wood is not a dark mahogany look like my 2002 540 i but a lighter walnut color. Looked like plastic.

So what do I do.......lease a car that isn't as nice as the one I'm driving? I wandered around until I saw the black E55. Got in it, looked around it and said. "Now that's a design I could see in my garage every morning." Never thought I'd see the day I'd not be driving a BMW but it's just too darn ugly. My dealer said "you'll get used to it, we are." Give me a break!! It's either good looking or it's not. I don't need to "get used to it." If handling was the only important thing I'd go out and get a Subaru WRX. So here we go. Like I say to my buddies on Sunday mornings.."Let's ride!"

amg55

I really wanted to like the 6 coupe also. Told my wife's BMW dealer to call me as soon as details started to trickle in a year ago---considering putting down a deposit.
After a look at the pics (and interior of the new 5) my interest disappeared instantly.

"You'll get used to it"----for $75,000?
That's a comical sales line.
I could probably get used to lots of things if I had to---but they want you to PAY to get used to something that's distasteful?
Sure. Next sign me up to be married to Martha Stewart or Roseanne.

1SICKLEX

norb, that was a funny pic. I think Benz was known as luxury and BMW sport. Somewhere along the mid 80s, when the stock market was going UP UP UP, BMW became the line of cars to chase as SPORTY became what every car maker wanted. That and buyers were getting younger and younger. Young people want sporty cars first.

EDWARD CONROY

My buddy has an M3. He told me it was a problem with contaminated oil and BMW got a handle on it quickly.

FInality

If youre referring to the blowing up engine problem I'm afraid its not that simple. There was a major manufacturing defect NOT an oil problem they hoped swapping oils would fix it but it was not the case.

FYI the M5s also have a blowing up engine problem, not as severe at the M3s but a LOT of M5 owners have encountered that problem check the M5Board and see what I mean..

A lot of them simply never mentioned it, they really are BMW fanboys ie BMW can do no wrong.

moa4r

I heard about m3 having engine problems, can anyone elaborate on how or why the engine "blows up"??? Didn't they extent the warranty coverage on the m3 engines??

norb

I had an M3 so I know what was going on. Long story short, they had bearing failures but tried to blame the driver for engines blowing up. BMW claimed that drivers were over revving the M3, then they blamed the oil and spec'd out outlandishly expensive oil for the M3 that could only be bought from a BMW dealer! But then this guy on the M3 board started to compile a list of engine failures and it was evident that it was not driver failure. When this became public knowledge, BMW extended the warranty and changed the faulty bearing. Of course some people already paid for a new engine out of pocket because BMW accused them of over-revving, I don't know if they got refunds.

Then to finally own up, BMW did a recall on the M3 to replace the bearing on cars that still had them (did not blow up). So most M3s had their engine cracked open and had major service done to. How does that effect resale?

http://members.roadfly.org/jason/m3engines.htm

krispykrme

I had disagree with the M5 engine problems. None of the M5 owners had any real problem with the M5 engine. A couple of early 2000 year models has oil consumption problem. Other than that, it's pretty much trouble free.

The only real problem that M5 has, is the clutch.

The problem with the M3 engine has to do with its bearing. That has since been changed. So far the problem has eased. Just don't over-rev the engine you would be fine. However, BMWNA's attitude really s*cks majorly.

The resale value on the defective bearing car are lower than none effected car.