Intake Dyno Comparisons.
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From: United Kingdom
CLK56TT (WIP), S65, RR 5.0 S/C
Can you elaborate?
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E55 amg
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 276
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From: United Kingdom
CLK56TT (WIP), S65, RR 5.0 S/C
On the back of this, what would be the lock up down to - oil evaporating, bearings seizing up? Definitely interested in the nature of this if you know more.
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Joined: May 2007
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From: United Kingdom
CLK56TT (WIP), S65, RR 5.0 S/C
http://www.lightningrodder.com/forum.../126226?page=1
Post #2. Are you the same person on both forums or did you copy paste someone else’s post? Neither is the issue, I was just after an informed discussion on the subject.
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2005 E55
That guy is full of **** in most of his posts. He should've copied the intelligent post on the second page:
You should just reach out to Whipple. I imagine if they think it would damage the SC they would have told that guy above, but they didn't mention any danger or potential damage. But it's probably worth seeing what they say for yourself.
For anyone that wants to know the purpose of the bypass valve then here is the info that Whipple gave me.
Its to equalize pressure above and below the supercharger. Superchargers have a pressure differential when the throttle blades are closed, since the SC is "sucking" air when the blades are closed and the motor is also "sucking" air. This equalization does help some idles, as most are lean conditions and when they surge and vacuum gets less (motor almost stalls), the AF gets richer and motor runs, vacuum increases as idle surge goes up, motor gets lean. This is a revolving circle. A bypass would help reduce this, but you still have to jet and adjust properly to make it work, its not a cure.
Also, bypass lowers air charge temps at idle because there is less "vacuum" above the sc between sc and carbs/tb's as well as the fact that air is actually being diverted through the bypass to the motor instead of the SC, which means it does get beat or compressed during that stage. This reduces temp at idle, which also helps idle because you have a more consistent temp at idle and therefore the AF doesn't change as much.
So the bypass reduces parasitic losses during vacuum operation and lowers overall temps in vacuum conditions. It does not make more power, only helps during vacuum to boost transition, as the cooler air has less chance to detonate during transient conditions.
Its to equalize pressure above and below the supercharger. Superchargers have a pressure differential when the throttle blades are closed, since the SC is "sucking" air when the blades are closed and the motor is also "sucking" air. This equalization does help some idles, as most are lean conditions and when they surge and vacuum gets less (motor almost stalls), the AF gets richer and motor runs, vacuum increases as idle surge goes up, motor gets lean. This is a revolving circle. A bypass would help reduce this, but you still have to jet and adjust properly to make it work, its not a cure.
Also, bypass lowers air charge temps at idle because there is less "vacuum" above the sc between sc and carbs/tb's as well as the fact that air is actually being diverted through the bypass to the motor instead of the SC, which means it does get beat or compressed during that stage. This reduces temp at idle, which also helps idle because you have a more consistent temp at idle and therefore the AF doesn't change as much.
So the bypass reduces parasitic losses during vacuum operation and lowers overall temps in vacuum conditions. It does not make more power, only helps during vacuum to boost transition, as the cooler air has less chance to detonate during transient conditions.
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E55 amg
Just came across this:
http://www.lightningrodder.com/forum.../126226?page=1
Post #2. Are you the same person on both forums or did you copy paste someone else’s post? Neither is the issue, I was just after an informed discussion on the subject.
Yes Alex not a copy that other guy who trolls on me is a little fagot and wishes
he can be on my level of Knowledge.If you want pm and I’ll explain more to you about the valve and reson it’s needed and why this happens about premature wear ...to the other guy your so lost on what you say it’s a joke like you .lol. .p .s I must have bought 4 whipples from Dustin and his company I think I would know why to run a valve and not get rid of it .Alex let Mel know if you need help on your setup as I had 2 setups like yours before .Cheers
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2005 E55
Yes Alex not a copy that other guy who trolls on me is a little fagot and wishes
he can be on my level of Knowledge.If you want pm and I’ll explain more to you about the valve and reson it’s needed and why this happens about premature wear ...to the other guy your so lost on what you say it’s a joke like you .lol. .p .s I must have bought 4 whipples from Dustin and his company I think I would know why to run a valve and not get rid of it .Alex let Mel know if you need help on your setup as I had 2 setups like yours before .Cheers
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Joined: May 2016
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Mercedes SLK 32 AMG
The supercharger is sucking all the time against the throttle bodies at idle and part throttle. this causes a little resistance and creates some heat aka parasitic loss. When adding a bypass valve the parastic loss is eliminated. In general it helps to reduce some fuel consumption on mass production cars. I guess fuel reduction on a 5.6 whipple E55 is NOT your main concern? :-).
But anyway I would mount a bypass valve for two reasons. 1. When using a trunk tank: because the supercharger is heating the water all the time in the tank on part throttle/idle without a bypass valve.
2. boost pressure >15 psi+: if the throttle bodies shut fast on boost there will be some sort of heavy shock load to the belt and aggregates including the supercharger without a bypass valve, because the mechanically driven supercharger doesn`t stop - it still runs and moves air.
Adding a bypass valve is a very easy modification. The valve is vacuum activated. So if you don`t like to use it, you can plug the vaccum line. There is nothing to loose.
I have a universal Magnuson bypass valve left including aluminium flanges. Magnuson do not sell them anymore. It was used it on my old supercharged VW bug. If interested PM.
BTW off topic. My supercharged VW bug, throtlle/boost response with a bypass valve.. :-)
Steven
Berlin Germany
But anyway I would mount a bypass valve for two reasons. 1. When using a trunk tank: because the supercharger is heating the water all the time in the tank on part throttle/idle without a bypass valve.
2. boost pressure >15 psi+: if the throttle bodies shut fast on boost there will be some sort of heavy shock load to the belt and aggregates including the supercharger without a bypass valve, because the mechanically driven supercharger doesn`t stop - it still runs and moves air.
Adding a bypass valve is a very easy modification. The valve is vacuum activated. So if you don`t like to use it, you can plug the vaccum line. There is nothing to loose.
I have a universal Magnuson bypass valve left including aluminium flanges. Magnuson do not sell them anymore. It was used it on my old supercharged VW bug. If interested PM.
BTW off topic. My supercharged VW bug, throtlle/boost response with a bypass valve.. :-)
Steven
Berlin Germany
Last edited by No2fast; Mar 30, 2018 at 05:57 AM.
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Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 276
Likes: 30
From: United Kingdom
CLK56TT (WIP), S65, RR 5.0 S/C
The supercharger is sucking all the time against the throttle bodies at idle and part throttle. this causes a little resistance and creates some heat aka parasitic loss. When adding a bypass valve the parastic loss is eliminated. In general it helps to reduce some fuel consumption on mass production cars. I guess fuel reduction on a 5.6 whipple E55 is NOT your main concern? :-).
But anyway I would mount a bypass valve for two reasons. 1. When using a trunk tank: because the supercharger is heating the water all the time in the tank on part throttle/idle without a bypass valve.
2. boost pressure >15 psi+: if the throttle bodies shut fast on boost there will be some sort of heavy shock load to the belt and aggregates including the supercharger without a bypass valve, because the mechanically driven supercharger doesn`t stop - it still runs and moves air.
Adding a bypass valve is a very easy modification. The valve is vacuum activated. So if you don`t like to use it, you can plug the vaccum line. There is nothing to loose.
I have a universal Magnuson bypass valve left including aluminium flanges. Magnuson do not sell them anymore. It was used it on my old supercharged VW bug. If interested PM.
BTW off topic. My supercharged VW bug, throtlle/boost response with a bypass valve.. :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCsFhCWGFpo
Steven
Berlin Germany
But anyway I would mount a bypass valve for two reasons. 1. When using a trunk tank: because the supercharger is heating the water all the time in the tank on part throttle/idle without a bypass valve.
2. boost pressure >15 psi+: if the throttle bodies shut fast on boost there will be some sort of heavy shock load to the belt and aggregates including the supercharger without a bypass valve, because the mechanically driven supercharger doesn`t stop - it still runs and moves air.
Adding a bypass valve is a very easy modification. The valve is vacuum activated. So if you don`t like to use it, you can plug the vaccum line. There is nothing to loose.
I have a universal Magnuson bypass valve left including aluminium flanges. Magnuson do not sell them anymore. It was used it on my old supercharged VW bug. If interested PM.
BTW off topic. My supercharged VW bug, throtlle/boost response with a bypass valve.. :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCsFhCWGFpo
Steven
Berlin Germany
Now onto the bypass re-integration. Unless I missed something from your post but since you need to re-route the post TB intake air before it reaches the supercharger, will this not require a complete new air inlet that will have the provision for the bypass valve?
EDIT: Just to word it a little better. With the Magnuson unit, where does the bypass flap reside?
Last edited by Alex L; Mar 30, 2018 at 07:49 AM.
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AMG
I'm on LR and know Bird. This **** head copied and pasted Bird's post from 2013. I'll invite him over so he can see this D bag's work first hand LOL!
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E55 amg
Fyi I was on that forum ..You just joined this forum and your already nut swinging with your girl friend.lol .Trolls 😂
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AMG
LOL! Nice try. You copied and pasted Bird's 5 year old post. Actually, your grammar is so ****ty that's the only way you could post a coherent sentence LMAO!
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Joined: Sep 2016
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E55 amg
Alex , I suggest you slap the valve back you really need to bleed of pressure in between shifts ..Also, it's a fail safe for when iat sky rocket up wot.If you had a bov then maybe you can get away with it but without you can cause major surging unless you had a standalone...I had a very similar setup on this car minus the dual tb like you ran a valve 100% of the time.Are you on a piggy back?
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AMG
To summarize: you copy and past a 5 year old post from a forum you claim to be a member of, and when you get caught you call the poor guy a fagot.
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E55 amg
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 276
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From: United Kingdom
CLK56TT (WIP), S65, RR 5.0 S/C
Originally Posted by oneslow55
Alex , I suggest you slap the valve back you really need to bleed of pressure in between shifts ..Also, it's a fail safe for when iat sky rocket up wot.If you had a bov then maybe you can get away with it but without you can cause major surging unless you had a standalone...I had a very similar setup on this car minus the dual tb like you ran a valve 100% of the time.Are you on a piggy back?
Super Member
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E55 amg
I’m on standalone and have a Tremec Magnum 6 speed manual behind my engine. Shifts are fine and no surging of any kind. IATs are within 10C idle to WOT. I think what you described is entirely possible on some setups but mine is different. I’m pretty hands on having done all the work myself including fabricating equal length headers for my E55 so if there’s anything to hinder the performance, I’ll be on it.
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Joined: May 2016
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Mercedes SLK 32 AMG
Steven, thanks for the input. Very interesting to see such an unusual project. Well done!
Now onto the bypass re-integration. Unless I missed something from your post but since you need to re-route the post TB intake air before it reaches the supercharger, will this not require a complete new air inlet that will have the provision for the bypass valve?
EDIT: Just to word it a little better. With the Magnuson unit, where does the bypass flap reside?
Here is a pic from my old supercharged bug engine. Magnuson bypass valve. if i would do it again i would connect it before the intercooler. the shorter distance the better.
A bypass valve is nothing else than a throttle body, vacuum activated. When your throttle bodies close, the bypass valve opens and vice versa. super fast. I would connect it between between the selfmade y pipe and the supercharger outlet on your 55. For size comparison, it was a 90mm throttle body on my bug.
I wouldn`t do a bov on a roots or twinscrew. do a research. this is a no no and cheapens the driving feeling imo because you always hear a "woshhhh" even on part throttle.
Steven
Berlin Germany
Last edited by No2fast; Mar 31, 2018 at 11:53 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 276
Likes: 30
From: United Kingdom
CLK56TT (WIP), S65, RR 5.0 S/C
Here is a pic from my old supercharged bug engine. Magnuson bypass valve. if i would do it again i would connect it before the intercooler. the shorter distance the better.
A bypass valve is nothing else than a throttle body, vacuum activated. When your throttle bodies close, the bypass valve opens and vice versa. super fast. I would connect it between between the selfmade y pipe and the supercharger outlet on your 55. For size comparison, it was a 90mm throttle body on my bug.
I wouldn`t do a bov on a roots or twinscrew. do a research. this is a no no and cheapens the driving feeling imo because you always hear a "woshhhh" even on part throttle.
Steven
Berlin Germany
A bypass valve is nothing else than a throttle body, vacuum activated. When your throttle bodies close, the bypass valve opens and vice versa. super fast. I would connect it between between the selfmade y pipe and the supercharger outlet on your 55. For size comparison, it was a 90mm throttle body on my bug.
I wouldn`t do a bov on a roots or twinscrew. do a research. this is a no no and cheapens the driving feeling imo because you always hear a "woshhhh" even on part throttle.
Steven
Berlin Germany
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Joined: Oct 2012
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From: Keller
clk63, cls55, ml63, (w210) E55
Steven, thanks again for the input. The design of my air inlet and casting where the intercooler resides is different to yours. Weistec made the casting to incorporate the bypass which I intentionally reversed. Until now I haven't experience a single issue some people describe here (I would have by now). I was able to map the car and used a bigger intercooler and made the Weistec casting larger too (this reduced the boost). It was interesting and educational to read all the opinions on the subject though.
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From: United Kingdom
CLK56TT (WIP), S65, RR 5.0 S/C
I'm kinda curious on the benefits of using the Weistec Supercharger over the factory blower? Our boost is the same. My cooling is better. Your boost is instant. Factory supercharger disengages when things get crazy. I guess it really ends up as personal preference.......right? Regardless, good job walking a different path with your transmission.
My boost was measured at 65% throttle. The car hasn't made a full power run yet due to limitation of the fuel system which I'm addressing.
Would be good to know how you determined that your cooling is better and what are the crazy things that require the supercharger to disengage.
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From: Keller
clk63, cls55, ml63, (w210) E55
My boost was measured at 65% throttle. The car hasn't made a full power run yet due to limitation of the fuel system which I'm addressing. 65% throttle? How does that even work? You did pulls while watching a monitor?
Would be good to know how you determined that your cooling is better Your blower is known for its heat and is limited from variable intercoolers set-ups by its overall design. Regardless, it's still an assumption on my part. My bad.
and what are the crazy things that require the supercharger to disengage. Seriously? Uh, like....intercooler failure/supercharger failure/engine overheating to name a few. It also disengages during transmission limp mode to avoid torque damage.
Would be good to know how you determined that your cooling is better Your blower is known for its heat and is limited from variable intercoolers set-ups by its overall design. Regardless, it's still an assumption on my part. My bad.
and what are the crazy things that require the supercharger to disengage. Seriously? Uh, like....intercooler failure/supercharger failure/engine overheating to name a few. It also disengages during transmission limp mode to avoid torque damage.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 276
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From: United Kingdom
CLK56TT (WIP), S65, RR 5.0 S/C
I guess all of Whipple customers are screwed then.
Will find out in September. I have a 1.5 mile event coming.
