krispykrme

Please!!!!!! Other than the unwordly power of the E55, there really is nothing about W211 makes it sporty. If new E60 M5 is ugly, W211 can be considered as a whale. W211 isn't that hot looking either.

norb

The E55 isn't sporty? Really? By what definition, you're highly skewed point of view?

Not Road and Track's, in which they picked the E55 OVER the M5, RS6 and Jaguar Type R....

1st — Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG
578.0 points

Rarely does an automobile come along that makes you run to the railing, fling your arms open and scream, "I'm king of the world!" The Audi is the most balanced overall package, but the sheer, overwhelming hot-rod thrust of this Affalterbach-built Benz can turn seen-it-all journalists into wide-eyed schoolboys. We'd like to personally thank the sole AMG technician responsible for hand-assembling this engine (his signature is on a plaque affixed to the 5.4-liter sohc V-8's Lysholm supercharger, but like a lot of signatures, we couldn't read it). The result is 469 bhp and a massive 516 lb.-ft. of torque, with the supercharger's twin screws churning at 23,000 rpm. Even right off idle, there's enough twist to easily light up the rear 265/35ZR-18 Continentals by just stepping on the gas in 1st gear. And yep, minimize the wheelspin and it's the Ferrari-beater, smoking to 60 in a mere 4.2 sec., on to an astounding 12.4-sec. quarter mile at 116.4 mph that's only a couple of tenths off the new Dodge Viper. And this in a quiet, civilized (albeit firm-riding) 4-door sedan, equally at home on a grocery run or bumping off its 155-mph speed limiter on the Autobahn.

Hand-built by a single technician at AMG's Affalterbach, Germany, headquarters, this 469-bhp marvel (below) propels the E55 through the quarter mile faster than most high-end sports cars, which is quite a feat for a 4200-lb. sedan.

Through our route's high-speed sweepers, the Benz felt positively glued down, delivering steering feel that's uncharacteristically communicative for a Mercedes, and very welcome. It's on the exit of tighter corners where you can feel the electronics — traction control, stability control — fighting to rein in the power. Even with stability control switched off, it still intervenes at the ragged edge, but not before allowing you to step the tail out. During strong acceleration, there's an intentional relaxation in power delivery on the upshifts to prevent the tires from spinning — perfectly timed, but noticeable. Also, through the tighter stuff on some surfaces, the front tires will chatter with extreme side load and you sense the Merc's heft.

Brakes, when used with moderate to hard pedal pressure, inspire the same huge confidence of the Audi system. And a peek between the thick spokes of the AMG-design wheels shows why, as there are immense 8-pot calipers and correspondingly large discs up front here as well. It's with light application that we find fault; Mercedes' brake-by-wire system, used in both the SL- and E-Class cars, requires delicacy of modulation for smooth around-town stops. "Not a major flaw," noted Wolfkill, "just a feature that requires a period of acclimatization."

Luxurious elegance with a sporting flair, the E55's interior mixes rich leather upholstery with wood, chrome and brushed-metal accents to produce a comfortable ****pit well suited for extended stints of high-speed driving.

So there are a few foibles in the running gear, but unquestionably Mercedes has crafted an interior that exudes polish, class and quality. "A very special, chic place," said Swift. Chrome-ringed, white-faced gauges are legible (though it does seem odd to have a large analog clock hog so much valuable instrument-panel real estate), and a pair of deeply supportive sports seats upholstered in Nappa/Nubuk leather offers exceptional hold, and features adjustable "clamp" of the seat bolsters. Just-so polished wood edged with chrome, and an extremely intuitive-to-use band of high-set climate controls finish the tasteful treatment.

It's nicer still for long highway stints with the S-Class-derived Airmatic suspension that quickly alters damping and spring rates as the system's accelerometers and sensors see fit, or according to four driver-selectable modes. Set in the middle of the range, the ride quality is similar to the Audi's; set full soft, it's between the Jag and BMW, all summoned from a push of what Formula 1 fan Swift dubbed the "Jenson Button" on the center console. Likewise, electronic control of the 5-speed automatic transmission sweetens the experience in either canyon-carving or cruise mode. In Mercedes' SpeedShift system, sequential changes can be made either with wheel-mounted buttons or a sideways nudge of the selector lever. Shift speed is commendably quick; and shift quality commendably smooth.

krispykrme

Read the comment, does this mean sporty to you? "sense the merc's heft". I did not say that, R&T did.

Hmm, the famous brake modulation problem I experienced.

So when does a truly a sport sedan that is that hefty, and has brake that is hard to modulate?

Or because R&T picked E55, does that equals to E55 is a true sport sedan? I believe C&D did not like the new E55. In fact C&D made a joke about it in its side column about returning the extra power for a 394 HP 6 speed german sedan (e39 M5).

I rest my case. It's kind of funny that I can use your post to make my point.

If my perception is skewed, then perhaps your perception is blind.

BlownV8

"I believe C&D did not like the new E55. In fact C&D made a joke about it in its side column about returning the extra power for a 394 HP 6 speed german sedan (e39 M5)."

Ironic, I usually make fun of Car and Driver magazine!

krispykrme

Then again, I could say that I make fun of road and track. This is a pointless agrument.

I just found it to be amusing that one can derive a conclusion not from own judgement but by a magazine article.

AMG Fan

The general opinion is that the W211 is significantly better looking than the E60. Krispy Kreme, if you don't like the E55, then why did you buy one? If you want to go into sporty, neither the M5 or E55 are sporty compared to a real sports car. If I want sporty, I drive my 911 C2.

W210

I find your tone a bit immature and silly as most W211 E55 owners here can more than afford to sell the E55 and pick up a M5 anytime when (and who knows when) the E60 M5 is available. No need to worry sick as we're not married to it. Most of us do have complete freedom picking and choosing our own cars. Not everyone has to report to a bossy wife dictating what we can or cannot drive.

Personally, I'm still on the fence on the E60 M5 even though I have a deposit on it and I'm #1 at my BMW dealership.

You're entitled to your opinion but I for one do agree with Norb and find the new 5 series extremely ugly, and I may add, with unacceptably cheap interior and unusable ergonomics.

Like it or not, most people here will pick the W211 over the E60, you're beating a dead horse trying to convince us otherwise. You'll probably enjoy sharing your enthusiasm on other BMW boards. One interesting point I read on the M5 board is that many members are complaining about the lack of torque in the E60 M5 and worry how it will not match the W211 E55 on the straights.

I find it hard to believe the M5 will out accelerate the E55 as I do not believe the car will be as light as you claim. Lighter than a 545i with the V10 and the quad exhaust? And with the little torque it has? I completely disagree with your speculation that BMW will make a CSL out of an M5.

Besides, to make the E60 so light it will have very little insulation which is not something I would like to see in my daily sedan. For street use, I prefer cars with loads of low end torque. I do not like to see a high revving and noisy engine for my daily driver.

If I were so biased into the 'sports' in a car, I would have picked the 996TT or the M3. Regardless, I will schedule an extensive overnight test drive on the 545i and I'll try to talk myself into accepting the scary interior!

We'll see.

Bikr Boy

Can we just stop with this brake modualtion crap. I've had my E55 for 3 weeks. The brakes are terrific. I've owned and driven a lot of wonderful cars both on the street and the track. How will this car stack up to the new M5 I am not sure. I know it will be a whole lot better looking both inside and outside.

The brakes took a little getting used to. About 1 week. This brake modulation argument is not even a factor any longer. It's just an excuse for someone who does not take the time to "learn the car."

I have no intention of driving this car on the track, nor do most M5 drivers. They are driven on the street. As a "street car" it is admirable. If you want a "track car" go out and buy one like I did and quit your bellyaching.

FIXEDupW209

i find it funny how how most of the previous and current m5 owners were critising the E55 for its lack of a manual tranny and now it looks like the M5 will only come out with SMGIII.

as far as performance goes, i wont comment on rumors cuz rumors can change by the minute but i feel that if bmw doesn't make the m5 as fast or faster then the E55 it will be a dissapointed. just because they had 2 years to know how fast its competitors cars were.

gup998

SMGIII?
Can you please explain what that is?

jrohlf

"The torque will drop after 5252 rpm no matter what car you have and I'd imagine the BMW will have to rev to around 7,000 or 8,000 to make the hp out of the 5.0L block so there will not be a whole heck of a lot of torque available to after 5252 rpm. Gearing will have to make up for that lack of torque."


Torque does not always drop after 5252 rpm. Torque(in lb-ft) and horsepower curves intersect at 5252 rpm, but torque is free to keep on increasing after that. Consider the S200 whose torque peak is at 7500rpm or Formula One engines for that matter. After 5252 rpm, horsepower will be higher than torque, regardless of torque's upward or downward slope at that point.

FIXEDupW209

updated version, a little smoother and 7 speed instead of 6 as in the m3. But no sign of paddle shifters in the spy interior photos but im sure there will be.

BlownV8

You are right in the aspect that I should not have said it will drop in every car after 5252. A very high revving engine, like the Honda S2000, will stay around the same torque across the rpm range even after 5252 and sometimes there is even a slight increase but it is very moderate and does not increase proportional to hp. Usually in these very well designed high strung engines the tq remains pretty flat across the entire rpm range. In the dyno graphs I've seen on the S2000, the tq is at its highest at 6,300 rpm and decreases from there but the max hp is at 8,300 rpm.

norb

Krispy, you discounted the whole article based on your one quoted line????!!!!!! Kinda narrow minded and myopic view don't you think?

So in your infinite wisdom, the only thing that counts as a definition for a sports car is brake feel?

I'm only quoting Road and Track since you've obviously been influenced by your reading of magazine articles. I've given plenty of first hand experience accounts, that's why I quoted the Road and Track article, but it doesn't seem to help you understand.

BlownV8

"I personnally will not buy the E55 because of two reasons. One is overall performance of the M5 and the other is resale value"

The reason the E46 M5 has held its value so well is because the new 5 series is just sooooooo dog ugly. Had the new E55 been ugly and had the same level of performance of the older E55 then the 210 E55 would have held its value much better. I don't know the exact production number of M5's but they seem to be much rarer than the E55. Scaricity also affects a cars value.

krispykrme

Last time I checked my tectite gray E55 with vin ending 937 is still in my garage.

So your on hand experiences count and i don't. So what makes you an expert over me?

If i am influenced by magazine reading, i would have brought up that 1st. However, last time I check, you were the one that started using the R&T article.

So wouldn't that make you a liar? It appears you were more influenced than I did.

krispykrme

WHERE DID I SAY THE E55 OWNER CAN'T AFFORD NEW M5? Stop putting words in my mouth. At least shows your maturity before you speaks about other.


the new M5 weight was result of conversation between the m5board.com administrator with BMW M rep at geneva. The new M5 will weight more or less with 545i. AGAIN, WHERE DID I SAY BMW WILL MAKE A M5 CSL? All i said that BMW's approach on the M5 has changed to more of a CSL philosophy. This is more than clear from BMW's official press.

I have no point of arguing if the points are valid. But keep on puting word in other people's mouth is more than immature.

krispykrme

At least it still a manual. Although I totally disagree with no offering a manual, it is still better than a true automatic.

krispykrme

I bought the E55 as a pure stop gap thing until the new M5 arrives. I do not like to be spanked by RS6.

No the topic is about sport sedan not sport car. I am just stating that E55 is not a true sport sedan.

BlownV8

I don't know if you can really call the SMGIII a manual transmission. It's more of a electro mechanical automatic transmission than a true gear box. The SMG is a fantastic system but to call it a manual transmission may be a reach?

W210

It will be amazing if the E60 M5 will be lighter than the 545i. But but I highly doubt it. Are they putting in carbon fibre?

But then the sad part is, even if the E60 can match the E55 in acceleration, no one here will want one as it's so ugly and cheap looking.

W210

[QUOTE]Originally posted by krispykrme
[B]the new M5 weight was result of conversation between the m5board.com administrator with BMW M rep at geneva. The new M5 will weight more or less with 545i. AGAIN, WHERE DID I SAY BMW WILL MAKE A M5 CSL? All i said that BMW's approach on the M5 has changed to more of a CSL philosophy. This is more than clear from BMW's official press.

Do you know what the CSL philosophy is? Thinner glass, lack of insulation, major weight reduction at the expense of comfort.

I disagree even on the "more of a CSL philosophy". Weight savings yes, CSL route no. I'm certain the M5 will have the same comfort features as any other E60.

"The E60 M5 will be at least 200~400 lb lighter than the E55. In fact, the new M5 will probably be lighter than the 545i (which is amazing)".

It will be amazing if the E60 M5 will be lighter than the 545i. But but I highly doubt it. Are they putting in carbon fibre?

But then the sad part is, even if the E60 can match the E55 in acceleration, no one here will want one as it's so ugly and cheap looking.

W210

Originally posted by krispykrme
"the new M5 weight was result of conversation between the m5board.com administrator with BMW M rep at geneva. The new M5 will weight more or less with 545i. AGAIN, WHERE DID I SAY BMW WILL MAKE A M5 CSL? All i said that BMW's approach on the M5 has changed to more of a CSL philosophy. This is more than clear from BMW's official press."

Do you know what the CSL philosophy is? Thinner glass, lack of insulation, major weight reduction at the expense of comfort.

I disagree even on the "more of a CSL philosophy". Weight savings yes, CSL route no. I'm certain the M5 will have the same comfort features as any other E60.

"The E60 M5 will be at least 200~400 lb lighter than the E55. In fact, the new M5 will probably be lighter than the 545i (which is amazing)".

It will be amazing if the E60 M5 will be lighter than the 545i. But but I highly doubt it. Are they putting in carbon fibre?

But then the sad part is, even if the E60 can match the E55 in acceleration, no one here will want one as it's so ugly and cheap looking.

W210

Originally posted by krispykrme
"the new M5 weight was result of conversation between the m5board.com administrator with BMW M rep at geneva. The new M5 will weight more or less with 545i. AGAIN, WHERE DID I SAY BMW WILL MAKE A M5 CSL? All i said that BMW's approach on the M5 has changed to more of a CSL philosophy. This is more than clear from BMW's official press."

Do you know what the CSL philosophy is? Thinner glass, lack of insulation, major weight reduction at the expense of comfort.

I disagree even on the "more of a CSL philosophy". Weight savings yes, CSL route no. I'm certain the M5 will have the same comfort features as any other E60.

"The E60 M5 will be at least 200~400 lb lighter than the E55. In fact, the new M5 will probably be lighter than the 545i (which is amazing)".

It will be amazing if the E60 M5 will be lighter than the 545i. But but I highly doubt it. Are they putting in carbon fibre? For them to annouce the M5 concept, I was really disappointed I expected much more torque.

But then the sad part is, even if the E60 can match the E55 in acceleration, most of us will not want one as it's so ugly and cheap looking.

W210

Originally posted by krispykrme
"the new M5 weight was result of conversation between the m5board.com administrator with BMW M rep at geneva. The new M5 will weight more or less with 545i. AGAIN, WHERE DID I SAY BMW WILL MAKE A M5 CSL? All i said that BMW's approach on the M5 has changed to more of a CSL philosophy. This is more than clear from BMW's official press."

Do you know what the CSL philosophy is? Thinner glass, lack of insulation, major weight reduction at the expense of comfort.

I disagree even on the "more of a CSL philosophy". Weight savings yes, CSL route no. I'm certain the M5 will have the same comfort features as any other E60.

"The E60 M5 will be at least 200~400 lb lighter than the E55. In fact, the new M5 will probably be lighter than the 545i (which is amazing)".

It will be amazing if the E60 M5 will be lighter than the 545i. But but I highly doubt it. Are they putting in carbon fibre? Or is it just wishful thinking from people who worry sick that the new M5 will not perform to their expectation?

For BMW to shake the world with the M5 concept, I was really disappointed I expected much more torque.

But then the sad part is, even if the E60 can match the E55 in acceleration, most of us, myself in particular may not want one as it's so ugly and cheap looking inside and out. And the poor ergonomics, that unusable phone, I want to kill Bangle.