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W211 e55 leaning out up top, return style setup solution (LOTS OF PICS)
Hello all,
i haven't posted much on here, but decided to make my first thread. Here I will be covering my DIY on a return style fuel setup with external fuel pressure regulator.
I have quite a bit done to the car and have been leaning out at WOT.
(72mm fsp, 82mm TB, pb5 longtubes/full exhaust(no cats or resonator, x pipe in place, cls63 mufflers),shardul bwk, 550cc injectors, k&n dropins, killer chiller, snow performance stage 3 meth kit, pnr trunk tank w/rule 2000, Bosch 010 hardwired, -10 fan mod, dtk trans tune, step colder plugs, race iq (Tony lawshee) tune, etc)
Seeing as high as 14:1 afr wot, which is horrendous. (NOT Tony's fault)
Many have believed that this is due to pumps. Or bad injectors.
Which of course, could cause this issue, however it is most likely (commonly) the deadhead style fuel system.
I will be installing dual walbro 450lph pumps as well, however that is not needed for this and only being done to run e85 in the future.
I will add my progress and pics when I can, and as I go.
I am picking up the final piece to the puzzle tomorrow which is a spare passenger side hat to run my 2 bulkheads in (for pump wires)
I would like to thank the many people that have helped me with this being kensyn Thomas, Abe Ibrahim, David Lehman, Jamison ebert, and Eric Mills.
They have all contributed great information, and are very informative on things related to these platforms.
Bare with me, I'm only able to work on the car during the weekends.
***Please also read through the comments, as that's where I'll be posting updates and things may be changing as I go.***
Do you have a fuel pressure gauge in the car? Do you have an AFR gauge as well? I did the return set up but not like you are doing. Your's is a little more complicated. I can also tell you I just upped the feed line from the tank to the rail and it picked up almost 10 psi as soon as I started it and it fixed my low pressure problem up top in the rpm range.
Do you have a fuel pressure gauge in the car? Do you have an AFR gauge as well? I did the return set up but not like you are doing. Your's is a little more complicated. I can also tell you I just upped the feed line from the tank to the rail and it picked up almost 10 psi as soon as I started it and it fixed my low pressure problem up top in the rpm range.
im doing it this way to also make it 100% e85 friendly. 2 birds, one stone kinda thing.
The line from the tank will be -8an to 2x -6an lines to the split rail, and then the return which is also -6an.
I have an afr gauge as well.
I also checked fuel pressure at the rail with a gauge and the "taped to the window trick", definitely saw it dropping at wot.
I just had a similar issue where I was dropping down to 3.1bar pressure under load and as soon as pump issue resolved and pressure was up to 4.1-4.2bar issue was resolved (I bought 2x 450lph to prep for upgrade to what you are doing... so yea I was going your route too)
I am a stupid rich now like 10.0-10.2 now with a 185 CP and 60lb injectors so with your 52lb injectors I would think you have enough to fuel that beast
I am still going through with a return style setup for more control over the fuel system eventually so I am going to follow this closely as you bought some sexy @$$ gear =D
Thought I would just add $0.02 to buy you some sanity/right pedal security
Last edited by BoostedAero; 04-28-2017 at 08:33 AM.
I really dig your set up and this is the route I am going in shortly!!!
One question and I am not trying to be offensive or call you a dum@$$ or anything but have you checked your fuel pressure under load and make sure it not a feed issue from the pumps/filter?
I just had a similar issue where I was dropping down to 3.1bar pressure under load and as soon as pump issue resolved and pressure was up to 4.1-4.2bar issue was resolved (I bought 2x 450lph to prep for upgrade to what you are doing... so yea I was going your route too)
I am a stupid rich now like 10.0-10.2 now with a 185 CP and 60lb injectors so with your 52lb injectors should have enough to fuel that beast
I am still going through with a return style setup for more control over the fuel system eventually so I am going to follow this closely as you bought some sexy @$$ gear =D
Thought I would just add $0.02 to buy you some sanity/right pedal security
Yes I checked and it definitely does drop.
I have not replaced these pumps yet, so if that somehow fixes the problem than so be it. But I'm hitting about 16lbs of boost here at sea level in Florida and the fuel pressure gets worse, as I get higher in the gears. (As the boost gets higher)
An external fpr, and larger feed line should by all means fix this problem, if when retaining stock pumps.
Yes I checked and it definitely does drop.
I have not replaced these pumps yet, so if that somehow fixes the problem than so be it. But I'm hitting about 16lbs of boost here at sea level in Florida and the fuel pressure gets worse, as I get higher in the gears. (As the boost gets higher)
An external fpr, and larger feed line should by all means fix this problem, if when retaining stock pumps.
+external filter =D
For whatever reason it didnt populate yesterdays post in response only those awesome fuel upgrade pics
my issue was over 4500rpms so yea I get it trust me
Definitely a fuel pump or filter issue
I know if you are like me you will upgrade anyways I just dont want to see you pop your motor
A-fix current issue that is prolly a clogged filter (which can be fixed with an aftermarket modified k&n to fix sub $20 + your time)
- then you could upgrade at your leisure
B-take car down for a few days and go deep and hard in the upgrade process
Last edited by BoostedAero; 04-28-2017 at 08:49 AM.
Removing the in tank filter raised fuel pressure 8psi right out of the gate for me. Going up in fuel line feed from tank to rail I had to turn down my regulator 1 full turn to get pressure back to around 65-68 psi so there are for sure restrictions in the system that can give you "free" pressure/volume.
Got this passenger fuel hat from a cls, for some reason it has a blank for the connector, which gives me more real estate to tap into!
cleaned up nice. Was brown with rust and such lol.
For whatever reason it didnt populate yesterdays post in response only those awesome fuel upgrade pics
my issue was over 4500rpms so yea I get it trust me
Definitely a fuel pump or filter issue
I know if you are like me you will upgrade anyways I just dont want to see you pop your motor
A-fix current issue that is prolly a clogged filter (which can be fixed with an aftermarket modified k&n to fix sub $20 + your time)
- then you could upgrade at your leisure
B-take car down for a few days and go deep and hard in the upgrade process
The filter and tank/pump assembly is only a couple months old. Well like 6.
Had them replaced under the recall (and I am aware of the difference in the factory unit, and replacement unit) but I didn't have this problem until I went from 77mm fsp to 72mm fsp and 82mm tb.
Either way, this will be e85 proof which is exciting!
Removing the in tank filter raised fuel pressure 8psi right out of the gate for me. Going up in fuel line feed from tank to rail I had to turn down my regulator 1 full turn to get pressure back to around 65-68 psi so there are for sure restrictions in the system that can give you "free" pressure/volume.
Seeing the gauge drop, I'm gonna need more than 8psi lol. However I definitely don't doubt this is true.
Photo provided by kensyn/David . Said to trim down the feed on the pump (walbro 450, cut off the barbs) and cut it on the OUTSIDE for 1/8npt. then cut the threads off of the new fitting, and tap the new fitting on the INSIDE for 1/8npt and Screw the new fitting in to the pump feed. (Outlet)
This will aid in making the Y fitting to pumps from the hat much easier and prevent kinking. I plan to just use the nylon braided hose from the fitting to the pump inside the tank, gonna strip the nylon off the hose however.
Here's the correct part to buy, you will obviously need 2, one for each pump.
Just wanted to say this is how you do a thread - informative and with pictures. Great stuff.
The oem system has a way to basically keep both sides of the saddle tank even. Are you returning to the opposite side of the tank from pickup? It would allow for fuel cooling as well as equalization and de-aeration.
Can you provide a better description of how you are providing the piping from the pump hat out to the supply line? And when it gets back to the hat?
Everything else is good solid fuel supply plumbing.
Just wanted to say this is how you do a thread - informative and with pictures. Great stuff.
The oem system has a way to basically keep both sides of the saddle tank even. Are you returning to the opposite side of the tank from pickup? It would allow for fuel cooling as well as equalization and de-aeration.
Can you provide a better description of how you are providing the piping from the pump hat out to the supply line? And when it gets back to the hat?
Everything else is good solid fuel supply plumbing.
Thanks! It's my first diy lol
As far as the plumbing from the tank to the rail, I'm messing with all that at the moment and checking clearances and such. Also awaiting some pictures/help from David lehman at eurocharged texas. As it's super tight, and I need to figure out where to mount the bulkheads for the lines.
I was planning to just have it return over the pump buckets.
I'm going to attempt to have it done next weekend.
I will continue to update as much as I can.
Playing around with another idea now. To have both the feed and the return mounted on the driverside, but to the tank and not the hat itself. Just like how SICAMG did for his return.
Cap off the factory outlet for the feed on the driverside hat.
Run hoses from the driverside bulkheads to the pumps on the passenger side.
Should hopefully solve ALL of my clearance issues.
I stole this pic from SICAMG's thread for an example.
I'll also try and make a kindergarten doodle of what I'm doing as well.
So the factory venturi pump, will not work with the way I have this set up. Thanks to David for pointing this out and supplying the part number for what I need.
i will be running the return line all the way over to the passenger side from the driver, with an inline radium venturi jet pump, which will allow me to run a line off of the return, in to the driverside of the tank to pull fuel from that side to the buckets on the passenger side.
Stupid me, didn't research the factory pump as I assumed it was an electric pump controlled by the car. It is not.
Here's the part I bought. Putting the system off for another weekend 🙄 How it works, but mine will be setup slightly different as it's coming from the driver side to the passenger
This is my stock recall replaced hat, not even 6 months since the warranty replacement and it's already burning... Stepped Drill bit targets Used the bottom nuts to determine where I need to drill to make sure I could get to each one with a socket and have clearance from one another These are cool, the top tightens to squeeze the insert tighter around the wires, so it can fit many sizes and prevent leaking! Underside. Mounted them upside down for clearance to the metal cover Top view Pigtails in! Cut this fin off if using this hat that I found (on the right)
Here's what it looks like underneath that backseat of yours Stock configuration This clip is what you need to remove to split the buckets apart (only one at a time will come through the hole) First one is out! Here's that clip Pop it off, lift it up, separate! Boom. Moses Used a Dremel to cut the holder out of the buckets Cut the barb off the wallys Cut the threads off the fittings The pictures seem to have gotten out of order... Made a little spot to tuck the wires/connectors and such out of the way of the level sensor and hat Cut here, for the worm clamps (stainless steel) Mounted Use this to cut 1/8 threads on the shortened pump outlets All together now Waller those fittins on out chyall Screw's together! Mounted! Use this to tap the inside of the bored out fittings, 1/8 npt
Noticed some of the pics went out of order at the bottom. I apologize!
AN blocks are your best friend Feed bulkhead with lines to pumps made/mounted! On the pumps they go! Here's the dude. Jamison ebert, 3000gt forum guru. Cool dude, insanely smart, and very helpful! Thanks man!
This is my return line for inside the tank, this is just the portion that goes from the radium venturi jet pump, to split hoses that dump in to each pump bucket.
Used the stock Y piece in the stock lines for this. And all 300 worm clamps are to keep the nylon braid from fraying Return dump #1 Return dump #2 Intank view from the driver side, both feed lines and the venturi pump/return line Just the beard behind the Benz
04-27-2017, 04:47 PM
