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My new E55! Budget IAT and mods plan of attack! With some questions ;-)

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My new E55! Budget IAT and mods plan of attack! With some questions ;-)

 
Old 07-02-2017, 11:14 PM
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My new E55! Budget IAT and mods plan of attack! Updated for completion and results!

Update: Completion and results!

Hello every one! I have my new to me 100% stock 05 E55 and boy do I love it! I have trolled the forums for a bit before I bought the car, and now I have it! First think I'm going to do is address cooling. Had a couple questions and any constructive feedback would be appreciated!

Here is what I'm thinking.

1(or 2) additional heat exchangers (ebay heater cores, I will fab some mounts) - One small one in front of the radiator(no bigger than 50-60 square inches) and possibly one more if I found a suitable mounting location.
  • Are the heat exchanger and IC pump fittings just 3/4 barb and plumbed with 3/4 coolant hose with worm clamps?
Upgraded IC pump. Either WP136S, bosh, or johnson. I am leaning toward the Meziere which claims to flow a ton more and can be had for 220$ on amazon.
  • Any one with first hand experience of the WP136S over over the other pumps notice significant IAT affect? (Not looking for some one with a minimal understanding of heat transfer and fluid flow in a closed system to try to explain to me that it is too much flow please, I found plenty of that on the search)

I figure the additional flow and ~100 sq inches of surface area will set me up pretty well for future mods! I figure all of it will cost me ~$300 and cool better than a $400 heat exchange upgrade. At the moment I am thinking complete list of mods will just be these cooling mods, 77mm clutched SC pulley, and a tune.

Let me know what you guys think!


UPDATE: COOLING MOD COMPLETION

Okay folks, I've finished! Here is what I ended up doing:

PUMP:CW50

Ebay, used, $80 shipped.(Cheaper without BMW bracket)

Part:11517566335

I bought a pump w/ a BMW bracket because I knew I had to come up with a way to mount it, but ended up using the stock bracket. I used a grinding wheel to shape it better and then used a T-Bolt clamp to fix the CW50 to it(You have to flatten out a slanted edge of the bracket for the clamp to sit flushly on). I also cut the rubber dampening material off the stock pump and put it around the CW50 under the clamp.

For any one interested also get electrical connections:
1 x 12527549033 Plastic Socket Housing
4 x 61138366245 Rubber sealing grommets
4 x 12527545858 Individual Socket Pins

Heat Exchanger:Frozen boost 36x7x3.5

http://www.frozenboost.com/product_i...0b4fee25778e3a

I got it for $180 bucks off amazon, because I had an amazon gift card and it happened to be on there

This thing was actually a bit of a pain. It is 2x as thick as the stock unit and about 2 inches taller. I made brackets to completely go around the thing out of aluminum strap metal from Lowes. I used a 1/4" piece down the front, and like 1/8 or 1/16 strap that I could bend to form a rectangular bracket around the back, and use all four mounting holes. This thing is VERY heavy so I wanted to make sure it was secure. I used 4 3/4 inch spacers to set the heat exchanger back under the bumper a little bit which ended up being perfect. Drill 4 holes through the bumper and bolts the freshly made brackets up and not it's very sturdy. Unfortunately sacrificing some surface area because of the brackets but I WOULD NOT TRUST using only the top 2 mounting points. Unfortunately it sits about 2 inches below the bottom of my make shift bumper lip(Previous owner broke the bumper lip off before I bought it) So I bolted a 90 bracket across the bottom two mounting bolts and used some plastic to make it just look like a bottom plastic cover. I used worm clamps to hold up the oil cooler around what ever the cylinder behind the heat exchanger is. Looks like something on the AC system. Moisture separator or something. Also I was able to use all the stock hose except for the pump suction. The factory piece was a little too short so used about 7 inches of autozone 3/4" heater hose.

The reason I ended up going with this instead of an additional heat exchanger is the additional heat exchanger in series increases pressure and reduces flow, which I didn't want to do. Replacing the stock heat exchanger with this instead both added a lot of surface area AND reduced system pressure.


Results!

I wanted to share results in the form of some data logging, but I was not familiar with the Torque logging and thought it just logged what ever page you were on. False. So until my next trip out it will just have to be my word.

Outside Conditions: 100F, 100% sunshine, 10% humidity. Good ol' Nevada.

Starting IAT: 112 (Car was thoroughly warmed up as well, driven ~15 city miles in 100 heat with a couple hard pules here and there)

Pull from 40-110mph starting in second gear resulted in a max IAT of 137

It caught at 137 and I think was at 135 when I let off. Came down very quickly, not sure how fast but was at +20 from ambient pretty fast. Took about 5 mins to drift down to the lowest it got before I was home was about +13 from ambient.

I have done several hard pulls here and there all in 95-100 degrees in the past week and have not seen IAT hit 140 one time. It looks like it always catches and settles out in mid 130s.







Don't mind that home made rubber bumper lip, just there until the wife gives me the go ahead for the E63 upgrade ;-)

You should see it the way it was when I got it, nothing there at all haha. Looked terrible.

Anyways, actual logs to come soon!

And credit for the pump find and all of the research goes to the guys in these posts:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/411058-intercooler-pump-you-didn-t-know-about.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...ion-pumps.html

Last edited by drothgeb; 07-29-2017 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 07-02-2017, 11:19 PM
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You need to research flow and psi of pump before you choose a pump
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Old 07-02-2017, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
You need to research flow and psi of pump before you choose a pump
Awesome!
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Old 07-03-2017, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by drothgeb View Post
Hello every one! I have my new to me 100% stock 05 E55 and boy do I love it!
<snip>
Let me know what you guys think!
I'm going to expand upon Hulk's comment and say, "Slow down".

Take your time. Make sure the car is up to like-new or almost-new standards. Don't start replacing parts *****-nilly.

Research, plan, execute. In that order.

The E55 is a great car but it is maintenance intensive. Keep up on the maintenance and you'll have a great daily driver.

PM me your email address and I'll send you a little bit of technical info on your car.
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Old 07-03-2017, 11:37 PM
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I use groco cp20 pump, 17 gallons per minute you just need to buy 3/4 barb fittings for it and you can get it to fit with a little modification. I was under 200 dollars when done.

I defiantly saw a difference in iat and don't split the system unless you are doing a gallon+ tank. Because with a high flow pump and small amount of coolant then it won't cool properly.

If his ic pump is the original it is probably bad, common issue, so he is just doing neccasary maintenance.
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Old 07-04-2017, 06:34 AM
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That is a low pressure pump just like the mez I wouldn't recommend that especially if using more heat exchangers
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Old 07-04-2017, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by drothgeb View Post
Hello every one! I have my new to me 100% stock 05 E55 and boy do I love it! I have trolled the forums for a bit before I bought the car, and now I have it! First think I'm going to do is address cooling. Had a couple questions and any constructive feedback would be appreciated!

Here is what I'm thinking.

1(or 2) additional heat exchangers (ebay heater cores, I will fab some mounts) - One small one in front of the radiator(no bigger than 50-60 square inches) and possibly one more if I found a suitable mounting location.
  • Are the heat exchanger and IC pump fittings just 3/4 barb and plumbed with 3/4 coolant hose with worm clamps?
Upgraded IC pump. Either WP136S, bosh, or johnson. I am leaning toward the Meziere which claims to flow a ton more and can be had for 220$ on amazon.
  • Any one with first hand experience of the WP136S over over the other pumps notice significant IAT affect? (Not looking for some one with a minimal understanding of heat transfer and fluid flow in a closed system to try to explain to me that it is too much flow please, I found plenty of that on the search)

I figure the additional flow and ~100 sq inches of surface area will set me up pretty well for future mods! I figure all of it will cost me ~$300 and cool better than a $400 heat exchange upgrade. At the moment I am thinking complete list of mods will just be these cooling mods, 77mm clutched SC pulley, and a tune.

Let me know what you guys think!
Save your money, and get a Stuart EMP, 25A pump... plumb your system with 1"

You'll be happy to have done it once

Thanks

Dave
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Old 07-04-2017, 10:36 AM
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One of the best pumps but imo the E is not well suited to a pump that eats that much amperage and will burn up alternators fast
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Old 07-04-2017, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by E42AMG??? View Post
I use groco cp20 pump, 17 gallons per minute you just need to buy 3/4 barb fittings for it and you can get it to fit with a little modification. I was under 200 dollars when done.

I defiantly saw a difference in iat and don't split the system unless you are doing a gallon+ tank. Because with a high flow pump and small amount of coolant then it won't cool properly.

If his ic pump is the original it is probably bad, common issue, so he is just doing neccasary maintenance.
I haven't ran into that one, looks very similar to the mes, I'll check it out thanks!

Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
That is a low pressure pump just like the mez I wouldn't recommend that especially if using more heat exchangers
The johnson is down to 2.4GPM at 4.5PSI and the mez flows about the same there and significantly more(double at 3psi and triple the flow at 1.45psi) at any lower pressure. I didn't find any data for the bosch but I'm guessing it's pretty similar to the Johnson. If those three are low pressure what alternatives do you prefer?


Originally Posted by DavesMeanE's View Post
Save your money, and get a Stuart EMP, 25A pump... plumb your system with 1"

You'll be happy to have done it once

Thanks

Dave
25A?! Must be a big one lol, I'll check it out. Have you put that current draw on your alternator without any issues? I'm guessing you wired in a relay and ran new wires for it?

Last edited by drothgeb; 07-04-2017 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 07-04-2017, 11:19 AM
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Look for a thread talking about pumps and it's clear on the graphs which ones are the best

Bosch is better than the Johnson

Stewart with the lingenfelter tune up is best but 25a is way too much, whether you run a relay and bigger wires makes no diff it will be taking a lot of juice from the electrical system, that's like putting a parasite on the electrical system that's already over loaded
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Old 07-05-2017, 03:35 PM
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I thought we all agreed that bosch 010 is go to, if you try to do the superflow route you need to beef up the wiring and fuse right?

At any rate, OP, what I've learned from Shardul you wanna do PLM cooler, new pump (bosch 010) and maybe headers.

Other best route is killer chiller if you want to avoid the air to water heat exchange.
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Old 07-05-2017, 04:11 PM
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it's not a super flow or whatever anyone wants to call it lol

It's the pierburg pumps

You only need a relay and bigger wiring for the cwa100

With the cwa50 regular wiring is fine

Again if you will just do heat exchanger then Bosch is best bang for buck
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Old 07-05-2017, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
it's not a super flow or whatever anyone wants to call it lol

It's the pierburg pumps

You only need a relay and bigger wiring for the cwa100

With the cwa50 regular wiring is fine

Again if you will just do heat exchanger then Bosch is best bang for buck
Sounding like the CWA50 or 100 might be best bang for the buck. Appears to flow significantly more at every pressure range than everything else. Not looking for a vendor just yet but just reading it sounds like people are getting these for <200.

Very cool find by Welwynnick and the other guys that did this research.
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Old 07-05-2017, 07:52 PM
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If you search well you can find the cwa50 for about 150$, that's what a few people have told me so don't ask me , do your own research
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
it's not a super flow or whatever anyone wants to call it lol

It's the pierburg pumps

You only need a relay and bigger wiring for the cwa100

With the cwa50 regular wiring is fine

Again if you will just do heat exchanger then Bosch is best bang for buck
Again and again like a record hulk they don't like to listen ..Vrp pump is a BMW water pump


Bosch 010 is what a v uses too it pumps well more then plenty
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
If you search well you can find the cwa50 for about 150$, that's what a few people have told me so don't ask me , do your own research
I did not ask you what the price was. I made a statement.

Originally Posted by oneslow55 View Post
Again and again like a record hulk they don't like to listen ..Vrp pump is a BMW water pump


Bosch 010 is what a v uses too it pumps well more then plenty
If there is a pump that flows more fluid for a similar price there is no reason not to go with the higher flowing pump. Higher flow, is higher cooling. Apparently every one loves to rant about how cooling is the biggest problem with these cars and then when some one wants to chat about how he's going to approach fixing it every one likes to be a bunch of chin up ****s about it and tell him the bosch 010 is good enough.

Thanks for the guys with cordial input haha.
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Old 07-05-2017, 10:46 PM
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Price wise the Bosch can be had for less than 100$
I have even seen them for 85$ shipped with discount code
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Old 07-05-2017, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by drothgeb View Post
If there is a pump that flows more fluid for a similar price there is no reason not to go with the higher flowing pump.
Definitely. I hope you find it, we will likely all get on board with it. Of course there are several multiple page threads covering intercooler pumps so most things have been tried quite thoroughly over the years. Some looked very promising such as the Meziere and then found to perform worse than lower flowing pumps in certain situations.

I bought an 010 as soon as I got my car.
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Old 07-06-2017, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by drothgeb View Post
I did not ask you what the price was. I made a statement.



If there is a pump that flows more fluid for a similar price there is no reason not to go with the higher flowing pump. Higher flow, is higher cooling. Apparently every one loves to rant about how cooling is the biggest problem with these cars and then when some one wants to chat about how he's going to approach fixing it every one likes to be a bunch of chin up ****s about it and tell him the bosch 010 is good enough.

Thanks for the guys with cordial input haha.
If your so smart and know more then us and know that pumps do this and that ,why make the thread ??
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Old 07-06-2017, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by oneslow55 View Post
If your so smart and know more then us and know that pumps do this and that ,why make the thread ??
I am not "so smart and know more then us" but I did make a THREAD in a FORUM made to do that type of thing to talk with people, hopefully without them being condescending ****s.

However thankfully I have learned a lot from this thread. Just some of the people above mentioning different pump names I hadn't found has brought up a wealth of new search results, even if some of the people mentioning them didn't actually care to help and may have just been popping off a quick snarky remark. All good.
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Old 07-29-2017, 06:51 PM
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Bump for update
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Old 07-29-2017, 07:43 PM
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If you listen to no one else on this site listen to birdwell... Excellent insight and great info.
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Old 07-29-2017, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by driffydre View Post
If you listen to no one else on this site listen to birdwell... Excellent insight and great info.
I agree with that, he shared a great deal of accumulated knowledge and information.

Last edited by drothgeb; 07-29-2017 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 07-29-2017, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by drothgeb View Post
Bump for update
I run a Pierburg CWA 100.2 With a SFR Electronics controller. I have the 84 mm clutched pulley and a 168 crank pulley. Split-cooling with my own under hood tank and 3/4 plumbing throughout, single pass intercooler and a Eurocharged heat exchanger. my system runs at 13 psi and 5.8 gallons a minute. I have never seen my IAT over 125, even on the chassis dyno.
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Old 07-29-2017, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BRH AMG View Post
I run a Pierburg CWA 100.2 With a SFR Electronics controller. I have the 84 mm clutched pulley and a 168 crank pulley. Split-cooling with my own under hood tank and 3/4 plumbing throughout, single pass intercooler and a Eurocharged heat exchanger. my system runs at 13 psi and 5.8 gallons a minute. I have never seen my IAT over 125, even on the chassis dyno.
Nice! I haven't done split cooling yet, and I was thinking about going with the 100 but the reports of frothing cooling made me a little worried, sounds like you're not having any trouble with it though haha. I figured I'd get the 50 in there for now and later I might add a second one in series and have it be switch operated.

You might be able to tell that I'm frugal as **** haha. Overall cost of my cooling upgrades was ~$200. (Well, I had a 75$ amazon gift card, so really closer to 300 haha)

I gotta nock out the split cooling at some point though for sure.

Last edited by drothgeb; 07-30-2017 at 05:00 PM.
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