82mm throttle body worth it
10-24-2017, 11:53 AM
#51
Super Member
Thread Starter
Being a mechanic at various dealerships over the last 30 years an tinkering an racing cars for longer than that i have yet to see one throttle body screw or blade failure if done correctly. I think u mistake me for some young guy just doing stuff to do it .... well news for ya ive had more cars in my life than most will have in 5 lifetimes. Ive raced em all an know what im doing. That lil acuation u see that u think is so violent .... its not. Theres a motor that is in constant control of the tb blade .... not to mention it never comes in contact with the housing or any other obstacle. The lil tb reset it does which is what your talking bout is just the motor.opening an closing to get the right position. Its not under any stress if by some insane reason it does fail ill eat crow but after doin this to countless tbs an carbs and not seeing a single failure ... ill toss the dice. Its a very worthwhile an rewarding DIY but those arent for everyone.
10-24-2017, 12:15 PM
#52
Member
Being a mechanic at various dealerships over the last 30 years an tinkering an racing cars for longer than that i have yet to see one throttle body screw or blade failure if done correctly. I think u mistake me for some young guy just doing stuff to do it .... well news for ya ive had more cars in my life than most will have in 5 lifetimes. Ive raced em all an know what im doing. That lil acuation u see that u think is so violent .... its not. Theres a motor that is in constant control of the tb blade .... not to mention it never comes in contact with the housing or any other obstacle. The lil tb reset it does which is what your talking bout is just the motor.opening an closing to get the right position. Its not under any stress if by some insane reason it does fail ill eat crow but after doin this to countless tbs an carbs and not seeing a single failure ... ill toss the dice. Its a very worthwhile an rewarding DIY but those arent for everyone.
With all due respect to your experience, 30 years ago, drive by wire did not exist, and self regulating stepper motor TB (without IAC) did not exist, fluttering butter fly controlled by high torque geared motor also did not exist...
I am not dissing your experience or your knowledge, I am discussing pros and cons of a given mod, one professional with another, you want to hack your car, more power to you, roll the dice all you want, just dont let anyone stand in front of your car while in gear, and for heaven sake, if you street your car, put it in park at red lights with pedestrian crosswalk,,,
Worse yet, if you are a professional, and you grind your shaft with reson, dont expect every 16 years old kid with a deremel to be, this is a public board and every kid reading this may walk away with conclusion, "HEY! LESS SHAFT IS MORE POWER, I MIGHT AS WELL USE A SEWING NEEDLE FOR PLATE AXLE, THE GUY ON THE INTERNETS SAID IT'S SAFE"
That's why I am very conservative with mods that have any margin of error that can affect safety. You've been around, and I ve been around long enough to have seen more freak accident than a plate come off
Lets agree to disagree anyway, and not hijack the thread further, and stick to original subject
10-24-2017, 01:07 PM
#53
Member
Id rather send my 82mm out to be bored out to a 85 if I wanted more minus a 90mm. I feel like that would give better results than grinding the shaft but ive never tried it so I wouldnt know for sure.... Blowers coming off tomorrow while I wait for gaskets to be delivered. CPS seems to have gone bad during all this so I guess its a good time to swap that aswell.
10-24-2017, 01:44 PM
#54
Super Member
Thread Starter
A bit defensive aren't we?
With all due respect to your experience, 30 years ago, drive by wire did not exist, and self regulating stepper motor TB (without IAC) did not exist, fluttering butter fly controlled by high torque geared motor also did not exist...
I am not dissing your experience or your knowledge, I am discussing pros and cons of a given mod, one professional with another, you want to hack your car, more power to you, roll the dice all you want, just dont let anyone stand in front of your car while in gear, and for heaven sake, if you street your car, put it in park at red lights with pedestrian crosswalk,,,
Worse yet, if you are a professional, and you grind your shaft with reson, dont expect every 16 years old kid with a deremel to be, this is a public board and every kid reading this may walk away with conclusion, "HEY! LESS SHAFT IS MORE POWER, I MIGHT AS WELL USE A SEWING NEEDLE FOR PLATE AXLE, THE GUY ON THE INTERNETS SAID IT'S SAFE"
That's why I am very conservative with mods that have any margin of error that can affect safety. You've been around, and I ve been around long enough to have seen more freak accident than a plate come off
Lets agree to disagree anyway, and not hijack the thread further, and stick to original subject
With all due respect to your experience, 30 years ago, drive by wire did not exist, and self regulating stepper motor TB (without IAC) did not exist, fluttering butter fly controlled by high torque geared motor also did not exist...
I am not dissing your experience or your knowledge, I am discussing pros and cons of a given mod, one professional with another, you want to hack your car, more power to you, roll the dice all you want, just dont let anyone stand in front of your car while in gear, and for heaven sake, if you street your car, put it in park at red lights with pedestrian crosswalk,,,
Worse yet, if you are a professional, and you grind your shaft with reson, dont expect every 16 years old kid with a deremel to be, this is a public board and every kid reading this may walk away with conclusion, "HEY! LESS SHAFT IS MORE POWER, I MIGHT AS WELL USE A SEWING NEEDLE FOR PLATE AXLE, THE GUY ON THE INTERNETS SAID IT'S SAFE"
That's why I am very conservative with mods that have any margin of error that can affect safety. You've been around, and I ve been around long enough to have seen more freak accident than a plate come off
Lets agree to disagree anyway, and not hijack the thread further, and stick to original subject
As for me I leave enough on the shaft for safety and so that it has plenty of threads still making solid contact,as well as using red loctite to secure it even further ... which the factory didnt even do so maybe you may want to make a call to MB and tell them that it needs to be done cause the TB plate may fall out because of the ultra high torque monster motor controlling the TB plate. I will agree you shouldnt take it down to nothing heck I only removed 35 to 40% of the shaft material its a steel shaft im sure itll be just fine.
Jesus if we all lived our lives the way you seem to want ...modifications would never even be tried ... how the hell do you think people learn and develop new parts they try stuff. I for one and I know thousands of hot rodders out there have been thinning the shafts of TBs, (yes drive by wire ones as well) carburetors ( also huge most the big names BG, BLP, Prosystems all thin the shafts) ..why... oh wait its coming to me ,..cus it WORKS! This isnt new tech this is something real hot rodders have been doing for decades, maybe do some of your own research before condemning something you dont understand. But i have always been one to do everything myself I dont drop my car off to someone like weistec or renntech and let them do that work and call it my own, no I do it myself cause I take pride knowing I built and worked on my car.
So maybe you shouldnt go out on the road cus I can promise you my TB isnt the only one out there thats daily driven and has the TB shaft thinned out. You may just be surprised how many people will go out and do small things to try and get the most out of what they have. Im not made of money and so I will take any extra I can get when I can get it, i have not put my car or anyone in danger with what I have done nor would I. If you have the money and want to send out your TB to maxbore by all means do so I have heard bad things from the guys that got it done, I think someone even mentions it in the thread I linked. If someone wants to take the time to do it right ... do the measurements, make sure to use loctite, torque the bolts properly then this is an easy safe small DIY that DOES make a noticable difference. But yes there are those few that dont read, dont research, and end up messing their TB up or causing issues. That cant be controlled, theres always gunna be someone touching the HOT stove even with a sign saying DONT TOUCH HOT !!! Thottle body shafts can break whether thinned or not and if I saw while I was working on it that I may be in for trouble I wouldnt do it. But i personally have never witnessed any problem from a tb or carb shaft being thinned if it was done properly.
As for highjacking the thread .... well its my thread so dont see an issue still has to do with if everyone thinks the 82mm is worth it. I have since done it and think it is a VERY worthwhile mod and when done correctly makes a huge difference. Thanks to DAVEMEANE for chatting with me and telling me his thoughts on it and his ideas of the hiccup which I have not had an issue with.
Last edited by E55amg0220; 10-24-2017 at 01:46 PM.
10-28-2017, 01:22 PM
#55
Member
Well I pulled the blower and replaced EVERYTHING and sealed it all with copper spray. I even welded shut that little brake booster plug on the back of the snout. Threw the 82mm tb back on and got the hiccup again with the p0106 code. This things really starting to drive me nuts! 
Good news is no p0505 so I think the leak is solved.... hopefully.
Good news is no p0505 so I think the leak is solved.... hopefully.
10-28-2017, 01:26 PM
#56
Member
Well I pulled the blower and replaced EVERYTHING and sealed it all with copper spray. I even welded shut that little brake booster plug on the back of the snout. Threw the 82mm tb back on and got the hiccup again with the p0106 code. This things really starting to drive me nuts!
Good news is no p0505 so I think the leak is solved.... hopefully.
Good news is no p0505 so I think the leak is solved.... hopefully.
- Did you raise your idle speed in P-N and D by 50rpm?
10-28-2017, 02:03 PM
#58
Member
the ECU is tuned, and expects to see air flow of 74mm TB at any given throttle angle, while monitoring a closed loop feedback of idle speed, and air flow sensor, to make fine adjustment on the fly, to meet goal condition of certain idle speed.
Therefore, installing larger TB causes more air to enter the engine than expected at any given angle, so the ECU compensation action for RPM fluctuation is either too high or too low, and constant adjustment, and getting off reaching back in return, causes RPM hunting and fluctuation.
Increasing idle speed, gives the ECU more room for error, and easier condition of idle speed to meet at the spec throttle body idle opening (1.1 - 2.5 degree)
In addition, it is a must to retrain the ECU of the TB limits, this is not only when install a larger TB, but even when you replace stock TB with another stock sized TB, exact same concept as normalizing power windows, so they would know their upper and lower limit, after battery disconnection or motor replacement.
Last edited by bayhas; 10-28-2017 at 02:06 PM.
10-28-2017, 03:00 PM
#59
Member
indeed, it is a must.
the ECU is tuned, and expects to see air flow of 74mm TB at any given throttle angle, while monitoring a closed loop feedback of idle speed, and air flow sensor, to make fine adjustment on the fly, to meet goal condition of certain idle speed.
Therefore, installing larger TB causes more air to enter the engine than expected at any given angle, so the ECU compensation action for RPM fluctuation is either too high or too low, and constant adjustment, and getting off reaching back in return, causes RPM hunting and fluctuation.
Increasing idle speed, gives the ECU more room for error, and easier condition of idle speed to meet at the spec throttle body idle opening (1.1 - 2.5 degree)
In addition, it is a must to retrain the ECU of the TB limits, this is not only when install a larger TB, but even when you replace stock TB with another stock sized TB, exact same concept as normalizing power windows, so they would know their upper and lower limit, after battery disconnection or motor replacement.
the ECU is tuned, and expects to see air flow of 74mm TB at any given throttle angle, while monitoring a closed loop feedback of idle speed, and air flow sensor, to make fine adjustment on the fly, to meet goal condition of certain idle speed.
Therefore, installing larger TB causes more air to enter the engine than expected at any given angle, so the ECU compensation action for RPM fluctuation is either too high or too low, and constant adjustment, and getting off reaching back in return, causes RPM hunting and fluctuation.
Increasing idle speed, gives the ECU more room for error, and easier condition of idle speed to meet at the spec throttle body idle opening (1.1 - 2.5 degree)
In addition, it is a must to retrain the ECU of the TB limits, this is not only when install a larger TB, but even when you replace stock TB with another stock sized TB, exact same concept as normalizing power windows, so they would know their upper and lower limit, after battery disconnection or motor replacement.
e55amg0220, Im guessing you raised idle in star when you did your 82? How many clicks up did you do?
10-28-2017, 05:07 PM
#60
Super Member
Thread Starter
I just raised the idle by 50 rpms ... but i did that at the start of installing it so cant say for sure if thts why im not havin an issue. Just did alot of research n saw alot of the successful guys had raised the idle
10-28-2017, 08:18 PM
#61
Member
Raising idle and TB reset are recommendations by Eurocharged. They both require STAR.
Good news the action is reversible.
I will create a how to video tomorrow, and upload it to Youtube to make things easier.
Good news the action is reversible.
I will create a how to video tomorrow, and upload it to Youtube to make things easier.
10-28-2017, 10:00 PM
#63
Member
There is tons of undocumented info on the web about methods to reset the TB, stuff line turn key and wait for 43 seconds, unplug and replug the tb, then step on gas two times, then clap 4 time while facing east, etc etc.
None of these methods are official or recognized by Mercedes, and some will flat out cause codes to be stored, or limp home mode, so unplug wisely if you dont have a proper scanner to bring components back online in working order.
Not to mention, STAR resets the "smooth running parameters and sensors" of the engine, not just the TB, to guarantee smooth operation, and re adapting the system as a whole.
I will post a video tomorrow covering the subject in more depth. I dont have the SL at the moment, since wife and kid took it, and I am stuck with GL450 with nail in one of its tires (too lazy and bored to go outside to swap tires)
None of these methods are official or recognized by Mercedes, and some will flat out cause codes to be stored, or limp home mode, so unplug wisely if you dont have a proper scanner to bring components back online in working order.
Not to mention, STAR resets the "smooth running parameters and sensors" of the engine, not just the TB, to guarantee smooth operation, and re adapting the system as a whole.
I will post a video tomorrow covering the subject in more depth. I dont have the SL at the moment, since wife and kid took it, and I am stuck with GL450 with nail in one of its tires (too lazy and bored to go outside to swap tires)
10-28-2017, 10:07 PM
#64
Member
Thanks for the support gentlemen. I’m back on stock Tb and she’s running strong. Seriously tempted to buy star. Having a starting problem too so it could really come in handy! Looking forward to the video!
10-28-2017, 10:20 PM
#65
Super Member
Thread Starter
There is tons of undocumented info on the web about methods to reset the TB, stuff line turn key and wait for 43 seconds, unplug and replug the tb, then step on gas two times, then clap 4 time while facing east, etc etc.
None of these methods are official or recognized by Mercedes, and some will flat out cause codes to be stored, or limp home mode, so unplug wisely if you dont have a proper scanner to bring components back online in working order.
Not to mention, STAR resets the "smooth running parameters and sensors" of the engine, not just the TB, to guarantee smooth operation, and re adapting the system as a whole.
I will post a video tomorrow covering the subject in more depth. I dont have the SL at the moment, since wife and kid took it, and I am stuck with GL450 with nail in one of its tires (too lazy and bored to go outside to swap tires)
None of these methods are official or recognized by Mercedes, and some will flat out cause codes to be stored, or limp home mode, so unplug wisely if you dont have a proper scanner to bring components back online in working order.
Not to mention, STAR resets the "smooth running parameters and sensors" of the engine, not just the TB, to guarantee smooth operation, and re adapting the system as a whole.
I will post a video tomorrow covering the subject in more depth. I dont have the SL at the moment, since wife and kid took it, and I am stuck with GL450 with nail in one of its tires (too lazy and bored to go outside to swap tires)
I dont have a star yet either i let my local dealer do the idle increase for me ..... but i will be getting mine from Shadul or someone here soon.
10-28-2017, 10:22 PM
#66
Member
I thought you were suppose to face northeast while eating asparagus out of flute wearing the skin of a virgin badger and the blood of an uncircumcised smurf???? Man all this time ive been doing it wrong .... ugh ... now i know why the neighbors look at me oddly.
I dont have a star yet either i let my local dealer do the idle increase for me ..... but i will be getting mine from Shadul or someone here soon.
I dont have a star yet either i let my local dealer do the idle increase for me ..... but i will be getting mine from Shadul or someone here soon.
10-28-2017, 10:24 PM
#67
Super Member
Thread Starter
10-28-2017, 11:36 PM
#68
Member
10-29-2017, 08:50 AM
#69
Super Member
Awesome, looking forward to the video. I have STAR from Shardul, unlocked version, and so far I tried the VIM unlock but it didn't work, still unable to watch video while driving. Not sure what's the issue as on the star software it shows enabled.. Hopefully your video with the tb reset and calibration will do something. Thanks mate
10-29-2017, 12:14 PM
#70
Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2017
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2005 SL55
Seriously please do create this how-to video. I have DAS/STAR and also just installed a 82mm TB. However, I'm not certain on how to go about changing the idle speed and doing a TB reset within STAR. This video would be greatly appreciated!
