S55inPA

hi guys,

car & driver also tested an E320 sport.
that car held .84g's on the skidpad.

Blocktrader

Obviously since the 500 carries less weight and rides on the same chassis, it could be made to out handle the 55. As it sits(the 500), it does not have adequate sway bars. This alone will keep it behind the 55. My experience with the 500 brakes mirrors yours Chill. It took a couple weeks to get totally used to smooth, medium rate stops in my 500. There was no acclimation at all in the 55.

Blocktrader

Skidpad performance is almost entirely the result of tire grip offset by weight. Slalom speed would be a much better indication of the cars handling. Also, the stock 245's on the front of the 55 are inadequte and more front grip would make a tremendous difference in steady-state cornering. Noone is disputing this, but how hard is it to change to 265's? Certainly easier than it would be to find 200 more HP for a 500.

Signal

Scwarzwagen, youre preaching to the choir.. yes its totally subjective.. thats what the point a few of us have been trying to make..read the title of this thread...

as for skid pad ratings.. that has little to do with handling.. it has to do with lateral grip, so its hardly an indicator of anything in this thread..

The E55 will outperform any other current E Class in slalom.. yes, its my opinion.. cause no one has really done it yet, but I stand behind it..


Edit.. My statement refers to stock condition of course.

schwarzwagen

I agree that the skid pad is not clear indicator of handling dynamics that’s why I don’t like to get into a numbers game. Someone posted numbers, so that’s what came to mind.

Stock of stock, you have to give the edge to the E500 because it has less weight over the nose but utilizes the same width tyres. I thought that was the point of the thread but I could be wrong. You can modify just about anything to make it what you desire, however you loose your warranty and piece of mind. Yeah, you can slap big tyres on the front of the E55, but do you want to take the chance that it might rub on a freeway bridge expansion joint at +100mph? I don’t. That’s why we pay a premium for MB engineering.

I think the point of some member’s posts is their collective frustration with the E55’s, at best, marginally increased handling capability over the rest of the W211 line. The fact that the E320’s maximum grip level is on par with that of the E55 doesn’t go so far as to tell the extent of the story agreed, but it helps to shed light on it if nothing else. Here’s the rub. I don’t think any of us would argue that the A6 4.2 handles as well as the RS6, nor that the 540i handles as well as the M5. The RS6 and M5 are far superior to their siblings in all respects and command a rightful premium as a result. With the E55 however, there is something of a grey area with regard to handling department. The E55 may be slightly better, the same, or slightly worse (all have opinions) than the rest of the line and that’s the problem. It should be a no contest comparison. The extra $20k premium over the E500 should garnish the E55 with vastly superior dynamics not just the stoplight GT race. The other comparable cars do that (albeit not as well as the E55!) but also handle appreciably better than the other cars of the line.

CynCarvin32

This man has taken the words out of my mouth and put them into the best post yet. I tried making this statement in a past thread but I think it got lost in the heated exchange. The W211 is a great chassis (one of the best I have driven to date in its price class). AirMatic is so far beyond the old fashion springs and shocks that I see those items as being replaced in total as soon as MB can bring the costs down for the system.

My point truly is this.....and not to bash the car or its owners. If Audi and BMW can get their RS/S and M-Power cars to drive markedly better than its normal series production cars, how can AMG move to making their tuned vehicle superior to the series car in every aspect. Yes I will admit that I am splitting small hairs in my discussions but I had hoped for the AMG model to produce numbers and driver feel that left no question that it was beyond the normal series production cars. Skidpad figures are meaningless but a cars time through the cones does say a fair bit about its abilities. The base (non airmatic) E320 with CH95 (225/55/16) tires was but .5 mph slower than the E55 through the slalom and this is what got me going in the last thread. .5 is slower but it is almost too close for comfort in my book.

My personal take is that a 300 lb diet for the E55 would make it a true beast. At that curb weight I would put a large sum of money on the E55 killing anything Audi and BMW could slap together. Heck, let the E55 weigh 100 lb more than the E500 for yes it has more features and added chassis strength. It still would be a true piece of automotive engineering (even more than it is now).

Dr. Chill I see the comedy in your post and well I hope you saw the comedy in mine as well. I was a bit insulted but I still saw what you were trying to say. I apologize if my rebuttal was at all insulting. Tire pressures on both the E55 and the E500 can play a huge roll in how the car performs when pressed hard. With both cars set to 38-39 psi cold, the cars both drive markedly better than the do at the factory recommended pressures. If the E500 is driven my a family member of yours who may not keep their tire pressures at high levels, I would recommend you take the car for a spin with some more air just for the heck of it. It might feel a bit better and maybe this could help you see where I am coming from. Furthermore, which tires does the E500 you drove have? I know the base (non appearance package car) comes with Conti CH95 tires as OEM fitment. This tire is a complete joke and it offers literally no feel, traction, or ability to drive quickly. My two W211's both have the SportContact II's so this keeps the playing field fairly even for drawing conclusions on my end. I do not know which tires you are running on the E500 but this could be one reason why the E500 felt so unimpressive.

I don’t mind increased the increased bump impact that comes from the increased tire pressures for the improvement in agility and reduction in understeer is well worth the slight cost. But going any higher than 40 psi cold leads to a loss of steering feel and it also leads to the tires becoming over inflated after 1 lapping session. 40 psi cold can quickly turn to 50 psi + in only a few laps of hard driving.

Now the we all have calmed down and gotten back to the topic at hand, I seriously think this thread was a great debate. I enjoy talking with owners about their opinions but disagreements are inevitable in a debate such as this. But a disagreement should never turn into an assumption about someone’s character.

Good Night to all who are reading and to those how have participated.

CynCarvin32

I speak from experience here in saying that it is not that easy to put a 265mm tire up front in the W211. You first need a wider wheel and this leads to having to find the proper off-set to prevent any rubbing on the fender lip and on the interior of the suspension links. I made upgrades to a W203 and just 10mm lead to some rubbing issues and I have seen W203's rub with stock sized 225mm tires mounted on 18 inch wheels.

Once you get a nice off-set, you need to worry about tires for at this point every little bit counts (.5 of an inch in a tires section width can be the differnece between failure and success). Some tires have very different shaped sidewalls and while one brand may would, various others could easily cause a serious rubbing issue.

I know the rear wheels bolt on to the front of a stock E500 but has anyone actually tried to put the rears on the front of their E55 and go for a seriously hard drive? And this drive needs to include some very large bumps, dips, corners and corners with bumps and dips. It may be just fine in daily driving conditions but I always like to know it will work fine when I hit a dip in the middle of a newly traversed corner. Does the rear 265's on the 9 inch wide wheel cause any rubbing? Non staggered tires would help reduce the understeer issue and this is something I am more than willing to do.

W210

Creditability

And so where's that article about AMG saying they're dropping the superchargers due to weight?!

CynCarvin32, I see that you like to throw in a lot of numbers (weight of supercharger, etc.) and words in your posts as facts, and while I never bother to check your sources, I find your AMG statement intriguing. Signal is not the only one interested in the source.

Unless I see the source, I'll treat your AMG statement as urban legend and 5th hand rumour.

Back to the 'fun to drive' statement, it's entirely personal, who knows, those picking the E500 or E320 may prefer lighter steering, softer suspension and softer gear gifts. My mother finds the ML most fun to drive as she sits up high. My neighbor prefers her Miata as she can tan and my wife prefers the allroad for the baby. My cousin does not like the E500 as she's afraid of the power and picked the E320.

I think most car enthusiasts will find the E55 much more fun to drive than the E500. I completely agree with Norb, Dr. Chill, Blocktrader, Vic, AMGe55, and the rest. I respect those who find the E500 more fun than the E55, but I think you have really unique taste and priorities.

CynCarvin32

W210,

I do not see my data as a pointless dispensing of information that I have pulled out of thin air. I am a car aficionado down to the bone and I have spoken with just about every tuner who works on Mb’s. I know many people who work at various companies (and at the factory it self) and I simply cannot come out and name names. If you care to call my information a “urban legend and 5th hand rumor” I encourage you to do so. I see this as pointless for most people would never believe anything I had to say, even if it were on a companies own letterhead. Since there is no way for me to convince you of my information I challenge you to do the inverse and prove me wrong. I know that this is a form of defeat but I see no reason to give out my list of contacts.

You question my knowledge about the Kompressor motor being to heavy. I ask you this… Do you understand why AMG went with a supercharger for the 3 valve motor in the first place? Well, let me explain what I feel is the honest answer (supported by information I have received – not in any publication). The 3 valve motor is not capable of making the same power figures as the old M119 motor in a big bore format. The block can not be bored beyond 6.1L (6.7L in V12 format) without compromising the longevity of the motor. MB went with a motor that was 30% cheaper to build and it had thinner cylinder walls and this was the limiting factor (and the fact that it was less efficient in every format). So in order to keep up with BMW and Audi, AMG turned to positive manifold pressure to put themselves in the lead of the HP race. Trouble is, this also put their motor in the lead at the scales as well.

Now as the 3 valve motor goes out of production and the new direct injection motor comes into play do you honestly think that the supercharger is being left behind at this point is pure coincidence? AMG would rather build an efficient NA motor than a motor that requires a supercharger to produce large power figures. The NA motor gets FAR better gas mileage (the first generation SL55 was said to return MPG ratings in the single digits and low teens – very low teens) weighs less and should last longer than the supercharged motor (the blower will wear out at some point…). So looks like one of the reasons why AMG dislikes the current blower set-up is that it is extremely heavy. If you disagree, I respect that and can do nothing to change your opinions.

W210

CynCarvin32, no offense you originally said:

"AMG has said that the current batch of AMG Kompressor V8’s is too heavy.."

you then clarify:

"I have spoken with just about every tuner who works on Mb’s. I know many people who work at various companies (and at the factory it self) and I simply cannot come out and name names."

Thanks for the clarficiation so it was not a statement from AMG, at best only from a staff member privately. You made it sound like an official statement which was rather misleading, and surprising.

stephens

Of all the tests on the E55 I have read, only one referred to the suspension setting that was used and it was soft.
Of the tests quoted, I question what suspension mode was actually used and whether the tester even bothered changing the car from what it was delivered to him with.

smgC32

What are the respective corners weights of both cars? I assume that the airmatic suspension is revised in the E55 to provide a higher level of resistance to carry the extra weight up front. But what else is different in the design and geometry of the suspension? What is the front and rear camber?, caster?, toe?, bushing densities?, sway bar thickness?, pick up points? front and rear track?, wheel offset?, ride heights?, etc. We can understand the differences a little better if we know what we are starting with from a scientific, not subjective perspective. I think we will find that the two cars are more similar than different in suspension design, just as one would find with the W203 chassis cars.

krispykrme

The point that I wanted to make was not handling to begin with.

My complaints was that the E55's steering response is not as linear as the E500. I may have a brake issues because the other E55 that I drove yesterday does not have as grabby of a brake as my car. So I have set up another appointment next week to have them look into my SBC.

As far as steering response goes, that other E55 I test drove exhibited the same problem that I had. It would shift from very heavy to light and back very quickly.

I really do not like light steering response (which E500 does have a lighter touch). However, my E500 has never shift from light to heavy instaneously.

This has nothing to do with absolute cornering number. Which I can say that my E500 with base stock tires has less grip and higher body roll. But I just never got used to the steering response of E55.

I hope that after next week at least the grabby brake issue would be resolved. So I can remove the complaints with the brakes.

BlownV8

Why the hell are you waiting? Swap that supposed POS out for one that works properly.

krispykrme

The dealer has one last shot to fix the airmatic. So by that time the airmatic is not fixed. I will swap the car. Hopefully, I will get one without the SBC defect.

BlownV8

I guess they do not want you to invoke the Lemon Law and make them buy the car back at 100% of your purchase price? How many times has it been in for repair on the same item?

krispykrme

twice. I believe per CA lemon law, they have 3 times to fix the airmatic.

AMGe55

kk I have to believe that the brake problem you have is unique to your car. I picked up my e55 a week ago and was concerned about how the brakes would feel because of some of the posts on this forum. To my surprise I found that the brakes had excellent feel and were very easy to modulate.

krispykrme

I believe that is the case. Because the one i drove on monday feel about the same as my E500. So hopefully going to service next week, the airmatic and SBC will both be fixed.

norb

KK, see all that arguing for nothing.

Dr Chill

I can just feel the love.

MrAMG

It's about time! I'm getting teary-eyed...:p

krispykrme

i am just happy that name calling stopped.

I am keeping my finger crossed that the car would be fixed.

schwarzwagen

Let's sit around the camp fire and sing Kumbaya

cte430

LMAO