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Crank sensor ?? Starting issue E55

 
Old 01-19-2019, 01:52 PM
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Crank sensor ?? Starting issue E55

05 E55 , having an odd starting issue . Leaning towards the common crank sensor and or a starter . What's happening is only on hot restarts 20mins + of driving (never done it cold) when you turn the key there's a solid 3 sec. delay , just stalemate before it starts to crank .

It always starts first try , never had to turn the key back and try again yet . Car runs fine once running . Its due for plugs and wires, wires are original 113k ,I know unrelated but surely not helping . Any insight is appreciated .

Last edited by SilverE5588; 01-19-2019 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 01-19-2019, 05:12 PM
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Solder joints that are sketchy are closed (make contact) when cold. When they warm up, they open. Sounds like the CPS (or a relay). Crank and cam sensors should be R&R'd , especially on a older or high mileage car.
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Old 01-19-2019, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Pmarino View Post
Solder joints that are sketchy are closed (make contact) when cold. When they warm up, they open. Sounds like the CPS (or a relay). Crank and cam sensors should be R&R'd , especially on a older or high mileage car.
Yeah going ahead and ordering a crank sensor , assuming bosch is very close to oem ? or oem is a relabeled bosch @ the 100 dollar difference . Fuel pump relay you mean ?
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Old 01-19-2019, 07:29 PM
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I put a Bosch on mine and have had no problems. It came from AutoZone.
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Old 01-19-2019, 08:12 PM
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I prefer the oem if you drive long distances , since the crank sensor can leave you stranded.
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Old 01-19-2019, 09:08 PM
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Yes I was thinking the same on the oem . Thanks . Will try the cps to start as a benchmark and see how it goes
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Old 01-19-2019, 09:10 PM
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Pull the panel in the passenger side of the trunk, replace the $5 relay for the fuel pump; replace the fuel pumps and filter if over 60,000 miles on them.
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Old 01-19-2019, 10:33 PM
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Got an oem cps coming , seeing some variables with the fuel pump relay - trying to order one now . Getting some contradicting #'s. For an 05 E55 anyone happen to have the part # (s). Assuming its just the one relay in the pass. rear quarter panel. Keeps giving me one for the front for some reason on mb part sites.
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Old 01-19-2019, 10:48 PM
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2005 E55 fuel pump relay cross-references:
MB 002-542-72-19
Hella 4RA 007 791-011
Hella 007791011
Bosch 0 332 019 103
Tyco VF4-11F11-S01

Replacement relay socket:
Hella H84989011

Terminals (purchased locally but available through mouser.com):
10-12 gauge 0.250” (6.3mm) female, quick-disconnect, non-insulated with locking tab
14-16 gauge 0.250” (6.3mm) female, quick-disconnect, non-insulated with locking tab

Note: the relay coil ground wire is 18 gauge and must be doubled over to use the 14-16 ga terminal.
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Old 01-19-2019, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bbirdwell View Post
2005 E55 fuel pump relay cross-references:
MB 002-542-72-19
Hella 4RA 007 791-011
Hella 007791011
Bosch 0 332 019 103
Tyco VF4-11F11-S01

Replacement relay socket:
Hella H84989011

Terminals (purchased locally but available through mouser.com):
10-12 gauge 0.250 (6.3mm) female, quick-disconnect, non-insulated with locking tab
14-16 gauge 0.250 (6.3mm) female, quick-disconnect, non-insulated with locking tab

Note: the relay coil ground wire is 18 gauge and must be doubled over to use the 14-16 ga terminal.
Perfect - thanks a lot
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:17 AM
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Replacing the crank sensor isn't a bad idea ( OEM only, though; they're not expensive). However that definitely wont fix your problem. Neither will any fuel pump related repairs. If you had either one of those problems, the car would crank but not start. (Same with a cam sensor problem.)

You need to check for codes (MB SDS) and actually diagnose the problem before throwing parts at it, otherwise you are just wasting time and money.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by sjc246 View Post
Replacing the crank sensor isn't a bad idea ( OEM only, though; they're not expensive). However that definitely wont fix your problem. Neither will any fuel pump related repairs. If you had either one of those problems, the car would crank but not start. (Same with a cam sensor problem.)

You need to check for codes (MB SDS) and actually diagnose the problem before throwing parts at it, otherwise you are just wasting time and money.
Agree with this,if bad cps the car would still crank,maybe starter motor,as said above check for codes.
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Old 01-21-2019, 08:08 AM
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Yeah on getting the car scanned. Since the cps is likely due anyways , i'll replace it to eliminate . I had a feeling it could be a starter.. Thanks for the insight guys
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Old 01-21-2019, 09:11 AM
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Starter is a possibility but they dont usually fail then start working that predictably so I really doubt the starter is your issue. Easy enough to stick a voltmeter on the starter positive cable to test it though... It sounds more like a DAS problem (drive authorization system) ie key, EZS (ignition switch), steering lock, etc. Are you using the key in the ignition switch or keyless go? (A bad brake light switch can cause similar issues but only with keyless go.)
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Old 01-21-2019, 10:12 AM
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Yes always when using the key - don't use keyless go usually . Yeah weird how it's been predictable , maybe good actually so I know if what I replace has made a change. But yes going to get it scanned etc. within a week or 2 .
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Old 01-21-2019, 01:00 PM
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Duh...I reread the first post and then saw "...three second delay..."
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Old 01-21-2019, 02:26 PM
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Yeah , I have another key I can try using just to see for giggles .Is Starter r&r a pain on these if it is that , some exhaust removal reqd. ?
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverE5588 View Post
Yeah , I have another key I can try using just to see for giggles .Is Starter r&r a pain on these if it is that , some exhaust removal reqd. ?
It's not too bad on these cars (at least compared to most of the newer MBs), but it's definitely harder than some cars, and not something I would do without solid evidence of a starter problem (which you do not have). However, there's no need to remove it as long as you think you can duplicate the issue reliably enough to hook up test equipment. To test the starter, just connect a voltmeter with the negative lead on a good ground source (ideally on the starter housing itself, but any clean spot on the engine should suffice) and connect the positive meter lead to the small wire going to the starter (this is the starter signal wire, which powers the starter solenoid which in turn provides power to the motor itself; MB calls this "circuit 50"). Normally, you will see nearly 0 volts (a few milivolts is also normal). When you turn the key to try to start the car, you should immediately see battery voltage (ideally 12.6V or close to it (at least over 11.5V), but anything over 7-8V should actually be plenty). If you don't get power there when you turn the key, the starter is definitely NOT your problem. If you do see power there but it doesn't instantly crank, you have a starter issue OR an issue with the starter power supply. To check the power supply, move the meter positive lead to the big wire at the starter (this is the main power cable from the battery). Here you should always see battery voltage (12.6ish) with the car off. When you try to crank the car, normally the voltage will drop a little bit (due to high current draw and resistance in the wire), but it should still be over 10V (generally higher if your battery isn't very weak). If you see 12.5V and it doesn't crank (and you have already confirmed that circuit 50 is also ok), then the starter is definitely the problem. If you see something like 1V or less (or anything less than 8-9V with a good battery) you have a problem with either the power or ground supply to the starter (you will continue to diagnose this in a similar way, but I'm not going to explain that now because I doubt that is your issue).

For now, definitely try the other key. In my experience, keys are usually all or nothing (once a key doesn't work, it never works) but it's very easy to check so definitely worthwhile. Also try a new key battery. The key should still work to start the car with a dead battery (there is a coil in the EZS that induces power in the key to power up the transponder chip even if the key battery is dead or removed), however, if there is a problem with the EZS, a weak/dead key battery could cause this issue.
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:37 PM
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Gotcha thanks for all the info, appreciate it .Yeah i'm not going to get ahead of myself and replace the starter etc. , for now im going to replace the crank sensor with a new oem , and a different key with a good batt. Take it from there and see. Ill update the thread once I free up some time to work on it . Thanks again
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Old 01-28-2019, 12:08 AM
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Update , replaced crank sensor and tried a different key. Issue has let to happen again , looking like it was maybe just the cps .
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Old 01-28-2019, 03:13 AM
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OP as has been mentioned above NO SENSOR can make the starter not work. Thus; while replacing that CPS is good practice (and I gently suggest you keep another + the needed tool to replace it in the trunk) don't expect this to cure any issue with the starter not operating. Fun part about it being intermittent is that any and all testing is folly unless the dumb thing is doing it as you test.

Best test for that starter you ask? I'll bite. Wire up a 12volt incandescent 35 watt headlight such that one end of a wire is grounded and the other when 12 volts is applied to it lights up the headlight. Why such a big bulb? We want to actually test that the circuit that turns on the starter is capable of delivering enough amps to wake the starter every time. A voltmeter will lead you on a wild goose chase as it shows 12 volts but there isn't enough amps There to operate the circuit.

This friends is why that fancy DVOM toy is mostly useful for verifying that the alternator is in fact making 14 volts.

Same test applies for 'is power making it to the fuel pump' among others.
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Old 01-28-2019, 09:52 AM
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I agree JohnLane. I am going to drive the car all this week , so if it happens again i'll be looking into the starter circuit etc. for sure . Key and cps have made a difference though , quicker crisper starts . Will see how it goes .
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:26 PM
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Also worth noting.... I have seen cooked positive battery cable right there at the starter... The insulation comes off... Copper gets corroded and crunchy. If this is an issue you'll get an audible 'click' from the starter as the solenoid operates with slow cranking as the battery cable is not able to pass enough amps to crank.
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