82mm TB Hiccup/Lean Rabbit Hole and my Fix
08-02-2020, 06:21 PM
#26
Super Member
Thread Starter
And so there is 3nother gents in here that have suffered from this lean map issue, and you are all getting a P0106 codw thrown? When it throws the code do you get the engine light on as well? Interesting as when I get the lean map condition, which I am suspecting it's an overboost cause, I don't get any engine light or code thrown.. I can only tell by looking at my afr when going WOT. obviously power is down as well but... I don't look at my STFT but maybe I should check out that as well when it has gone lean map condition as you guys seem to report when in that lean map your STFT goes +25?
I think it sounds like you probably just need to get yourself a MAP clamp though :-P Pretty sure SICAMG has lots of info posted on it, and his experience with the overboost issue if I remember right.
Last edited by drothgeb; 08-02-2020 at 06:23 PM.
08-03-2020, 04:41 PM
#27
Super Member
Thanks SIC, I believe that is my issue as well, as I am still stock TB as well and don't throw any codes. Appreciate the feedback.
08-03-2020, 04:43 PM
#28
Super Member
The P0106 doesn't happen every time the lean map happens. It was maybe about 25% of the time for me, and yes the P0106 does throw the check engine light. I see this issue as literally the only reason to monitor STFT haha. Usually hits about 20ish for split second normal cruising, for the most part always under 15, but when the lean map happens it'll occasionally hold 25 (still a bit erratic depending on what you're doing with throttle though). So I set an alarm on the STFT so that if it's htting 25 I get an audible through torque and I know not to WOT it.
I think it sounds like you probably just need to get yourself a MAP clamp though :-P Pretty sure SICAMG has lots of info posted on it, and his experience with the overboost issue if I remember right.
I think it sounds like you probably just need to get yourself a MAP clamp though :-P Pretty sure SICAMG has lots of info posted on it, and his experience with the overboost issue if I remember right.
08-03-2020, 05:39 PM
#29
Super Member
08-03-2020, 08:33 PM
#30
Super Member
Thread Starter
Grab an ECUMaster DET3 ships from EU(if that's closer than US for you?). Get you some solid logging as well as functions as a map clamp (and piggy back tuning if you try it!). Mines on my way now. If I can get the piggyback fuel and timing to work correctly I'll do a write up on it.
08-04-2020, 01:17 PM
#31
Super Member
Here we go mate. https://splitsec.com/product/vc3-100-voltage-clamp
08-04-2020, 01:18 PM
#32
Super Member
Grab an ECUMaster DET3 ships from EU(if that's closer than US for you?). Get you some solid logging as well as functions as a map clamp (and piggy back tuning if you try it!). Mines on my way now. If I can get the piggyback fuel and timing to work correctly I'll do a write up on it.
08-04-2020, 01:23 PM
#33
Super Member
Here we go mate. https://splitsec.com/product/vc3-100-voltage-clamp
08-04-2020, 03:17 PM
#34
What are the opinions on what voltage the clamp should be set at for 17psi?
My opinion is around 3.4V I came up with that based on the discussion on SICAMGs thread from a while back...
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...r-problem.html
Thanks yet again SIC!
My opinion is around 3.4V I came up with that based on the discussion on SICAMGs thread from a while back...
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...r-problem.html
Thanks yet again SIC!
08-05-2020, 11:11 PM
#35
Junior Member
What boost are you seeing now with your upgraded crank and sc pulley combo? I'm am suffering this lean/fail over map issue at the moment, and I was convinced it was after doing a WOT pull and peaking over 17psi threshold which throws the car to lean map, and same thing I have to pull over turn car off and on again. We winter now with high pressure so I can trigger this lean map every WOT pull basically. Now you got me thinking however that maybe it's coincidence and not a 17psi WOT pull but in this 55mph zone you speak of that trigger it. I need to go investigate that further.. So you say 55mph slight uphill and what throttle % trigger it for you?
When the ECU switches to the “lean map” you feel a slight hesitation and after I was hitting 20+AFR under boost. Rough idle was also a sure way to confirm.
Last edited by Sam.P; 08-05-2020 at 11:14 PM.
08-06-2020, 09:24 AM
#36
FWIW I don't think I'll need the MAP clamp as I'm only hitting 10psi with the 83mm pulley. I've only tripped the CEL with P0106 once since putting on the 3rd throttle body but I'm having a helluva time trying to consistently reproduce the issue.
08-07-2020, 07:54 PM
#38
Super Member
08-07-2020, 08:19 PM
#39
MBWorld Fanatic!
No need to tune for me as the ECU is programmed to 11.1 AFR even if it is at 5 psi or 20 psi, so does not matter really for me. I think I only had to add a few pounds of fuel to get it where I wanted. But I also have a boost reference regulator so as boost goes up...so doe's the fuel pressure.
I would run more boost but my IAT is in perfect control at 17-18lb's right now. I make up for above sea level racing and lower boost... you know all to well about that LOL , with a hit of Nitrous so works perfect.
Drothgeb how is the car running ? Still good?
I would run more boost but my IAT is in perfect control at 17-18lb's right now. I make up for above sea level racing and lower boost... you know all to well about that LOL , with a hit of Nitrous so works perfect.
Drothgeb how is the car running ? Still good?
Last edited by SICAMG; 08-07-2020 at 09:05 PM.
08-07-2020, 09:54 PM
#40
MBWorld Fanatic!
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04 E55 AMG (totaled), 07 S550 4Matic, 14 E63S
This whole MAP clamp thing doesn't make sense. These are speed density engines. If the ECU doesn't see extra boost, it won't add extra fuel. Do MAP clamp people just used rising fuel pressure regulators? That's pretty hacky but maybe it works alright...
Does it require a custom tune usually? You could sort of tune it for that but it would be too rich until WOT/full boost. Again, seems hacky.
Does it require a custom tune usually? You could sort of tune it for that but it would be too rich until WOT/full boost. Again, seems hacky.
08-07-2020, 10:13 PM
#41
MBWorld Fanatic!
Not hack at all ,that’s why they make map clamps , once you dial it in your good,I use tune and some fuel pressure tweaks
08-08-2020, 03:13 PM
#42
MBWorld Fanatic!
This whole MAP clamp thing doesn't make sense. These are speed density engines. If the ECU doesn't see extra boost, it won't add extra fuel. Do MAP clamp people just used rising fuel pressure regulators? That's pretty hacky but maybe it works alright...
Does it require a custom tune usually? You could sort of tune it for that but it would be too rich until WOT/full boost. Again, seems hacky.
Does it require a custom tune usually? You could sort of tune it for that but it would be too rich until WOT/full boost. Again, seems hacky.
I would not use one if you are not sure about it.
08-08-2020, 09:05 PM
#45
Super Member
No need to tune for me as the ECU is programmed to 11.1 AFR even if it is at 5 psi or 20 psi, so does not matter really for me. I think I only had to add a few pounds of fuel to get it where I wanted. But I also have a boost reference regulator so as boost goes up...so doe's the fuel pressure.
I would run more boost but my IAT is in perfect control at 17-18lb's right now. I make up for above sea level racing and lower boost... you know all to well about that LOL , with a hit of Nitrous so works perfect.
Drothgeb how is the car running ? Still good?
I would run more boost but my IAT is in perfect control at 17-18lb's right now. I make up for above sea level racing and lower boost... you know all to well about that LOL , with a hit of Nitrous so works perfect.
Drothgeb how is the car running ? Still good?
08-08-2020, 09:07 PM
#46
Super Member
08-09-2020, 01:06 PM
#48
Super Member
Thread Starter
It's alright. Not coming with a wire harness and just a bunch of cheap *** molex pins was anoying though. But right now the crank position/timing control is kicking my butt. I believe we have a balanced VR crank sensor (based on what I saw checking with an oscope), and I've tried connecting every which way and can't get the ****er to work. Might have to give up on timing control if I can't get this sorted.
08-10-2020, 11:54 AM
#49
Super Member
Thread Starter
Got'er up and running with a few drives under my belt. I haven't tried doing any tuning with it yet but I'm intercepting the CPS and MAP for timing/fuel tuning. All the offsets are still at zero but so far everything is running good. The biggest downside is that you can't log actual timing at the ignition coil with this set up, just your timing offset of the CPS. It's a pretty big bummer because that's how I planned to watch for knock. I'm going to tie one of the inputs into a knock sensor and see if I can sort anythign out from that. I know I ran into a couple threads that said the signals were noisy and not useful without all the fancy stuff the ECU does with it but I'll take a look anyways.
On the plus side it's got some really nice features. The ability to log, and overlay any of the data collected from any of the inputs over top of the fuel or spark tables. So you can overlay say AFR and it will directly overlay your logged data into the adjustment table making it super easy to fine tune fuel. Its got two different PWM outputs, can control methonal pump, or you can set up rules to trigger lights under what ever circumstances you want.
Anyways, I'll do a separate write up in a bit with a wiring diagram probably and some info on the hiccups I ran into, hopefully some data on how well the tuning is working for me haha
On the plus side it's got some really nice features. The ability to log, and overlay any of the data collected from any of the inputs over top of the fuel or spark tables. So you can overlay say AFR and it will directly overlay your logged data into the adjustment table making it super easy to fine tune fuel. Its got two different PWM outputs, can control methonal pump, or you can set up rules to trigger lights under what ever circumstances you want.
Anyways, I'll do a separate write up in a bit with a wiring diagram probably and some info on the hiccups I ran into, hopefully some data on how well the tuning is working for me haha
