RJC

Well, be glad you chose the 55 because the new (Sept) European Car magazine has an article for a long term update of their C4S. The car had engine faliure (the second 996 in the fleet to experience this) and Porsche has been having so many faliures that the dealerships have extra "crate engines" in stock just for this problem. According to the article the C4S tester was babied during its testing and broken-in per the manufactures guide lines just to make sure. Porsche is instructing the dealers not to open the engines and just replace them. Yikes!

moa4r

C4s vs. E55 would be a very tough choice IMO
two of my favorite cars out right now....

moa4r

BTW, just bcs one porsche's engine failed doesn't mean its a bad car, etc. the 996 has been in production since '98 and, while the engine has had its fair share of problems, so has the e55; IMO the NA porsche engine is more reliable long term than the supercharged e55, which hasn't yet stood the test of time since it barely been out for 1 year....

Bilal

A 996 C4S or a 997 C2S or even a 996 GT3, right now would be the perfect compliment to an E55 or a C55. I don't think you could choose between the cars. People who buy E55's need the saloon practicality, people who buy Porsche's need a sportscar and practicality second. Thereby, it would be better to get both. Throw an SL55 into the mix and the whole thing gets complicated

RJC

Unfortunately its been a lot more than one engine. The scary part is it seems to have affected MY 2002 and 2003 engines, after three years of 996 production. I doubt any MB dealerships have extra complete E55 crate engines in inventory because of so many total failures coming in. I checked a few 996 forums and found the engine problem is quite widespread. I had a new 99' 996 when the car first came out, traded a mint 97 cab for it, the build quality wasn't even close to the 993's. I'm hoping the new 997 is better, can't wait to test it. Anyway the point of the thread was to make those who chose the 55 feel confident they made a wise choice

E55 POWER

I went for the E55 my second choice was the 996 C4S, I tried both cars before buying and in PR they are about the same price $122,000. Honestly in the curves the C4S is another story, but in a straight away the E55 no questions asked, plus I got two kids and could not buy both cars. Aslo the E55 is more confortable for daily driving.

Regards,
Manuel

Vic

Interesting that the problem is only with the C4S. I believe it uses the same engine as the C4 and the C2. So why is Porsche only providing crate motors for the C4S.

BTW, where did you hear this?

Signal

the answer is they aren't.....

His post is fairly misleading if not a downright lie...

I have both a 2003 C4S and a 2004 E55.. Both great cars but totally different in my opinion.. They cannot be compared..

I believe the engine failure as he calls it is the rear main seal issue with all 996 NA engines. Its one of those things that has been highly publicized by a few indivudals who then use the internet to make a bigger noise then otherwise would exist.. Not that they dont have a valid complaint, but the seals when faulty are being replaced under warranty, and if by chance the gap tolerance is out of spec the whole engine is being replaced.. Considering that the same engine is used across the whole model line except for the turbo it is not at all suprising or unusual that some dealers would have crate engines in stock.

The 996 engine is highly reliable, and very powerful in its incarnations. The rear main seal is no doubt a problem in SOME vehicles that porsche has produced since 1998 with that engine, but the 6 year run has been highly succesfull.. I would say the problem of E55's pulling to the right is far more prevalent.. A rear main seal failure means you drip oil, not engine failure.. it however can lead to engine failure if ignored. I believe most of the noise is made by europeans who only have a 2 year warranty. So its only right that they ***** about it.. Porsche should give them the same warranty they give us here in the states.

Now that I have said all this and defended porsche, I have no doubt that I will have a rear main seal failure... =)

But again... its fixed under warranty.... free... I most likely would not own the porsche anyways without the warranty..

Btw.. Build quality is far superior on 996's to 993's. to suggest otherwise is really disengenuine of you..

Redlinerobert

Signal,

I agree completely with your write up - and since I also have an '03 C4S as well as an '05 E55, I can say that these are two dramamtically different cars, but I don't think I could live without either.

RJC

Back off Signal!

As I stated in my original post I was repeating what was written in European Car Magazine's Sept issue; I sure hope you were not calling me a liar and If so I resent it very much.

Since I don't have a scanner I'll type in word for work what was reported. The good is what we all know and love about 911's but the bad was of concern to me and here it is:

The title was: "Long term update: 2003 Porsche 911 C4S Taking the bad along with the good."

"And now for the bad. Yet again, we lost another engine in a long term-term 911. Abuse you say? Not a chance. editor Brown has spent most time in the car and has babied it to the point of nausea, and cautions everyone else who drives it not to screw it up!"

"What's the deal then? Is there a common motor malady. Like our previous 996, this one performed flawlessly right up until it suffered a catostophic engine faliure within the engine. The crew at McKenna Porsche, where we've had many of our long term testers serviced or fixed, was equally mystified. We don't know what's going on with the internals, said another Porsche dealer's Service Manager. They told us not even to open up the engines, just replace the entire thing. We've got a bunch of new crate motors on hand to deal with this problem."

"While this is a warranty fix, it won't be in five years from now, and at $20k a pop, 3.6 liter Porsche engines are't cheap."--- End of the bad news.

With regard to the build quality of the 993 vs 996 I've owned both and in my opinion I found the 993 to be a better built car; period. That is my opinion and my experience, to call it disingenuos is simply not accurate to what I and actually others I know have experienced.

As I stated in my second post, my reason for posting this was to let all of us be aware of this potentially serious problem and to make those that made the choice of the E55 vs the 996 feel good about their decision...and this is the thanks I get.

I hope no one has an engine failure as we've all paid hard earned money for all our cars but unfortuantely it sounds as if the engine in question performs great (as I'm sure your's and others are) right up unitl it dies due to "CATOSTROPHIC" engine failure and with two testers back to back. That sure doesn't sound like a rear seal issue as the dealers are being told not even to open the engines but just replace them.

I thought it useful to share this important info (which shocked me too) with the members of this forum as I always try to look out for the good people of this board.

Signal

No... im not gonna back off... cause its a message board, and you shouldnt be so bloody sensitive...

Your european car magazine that you quote, is misleading, and wihtout a doubt quite false, and your jumping on its bandwagon..

dont post things to get thanks.. you will always be let down.. and dont take it all so personally...

its just a message board.. and nothing you say or I say ultimately means anything..

However.. you are spreading false and misleading information.. albeit from a euro mag...

How do you know that magazine doesnt have it in for Porsche? How do you know they arent full of it.. ? its just opinion.. like yours , like mine... just cause its on paper instead of the ether doesnt make it any more valid.

So they got two bad C4S's ? so what.. doesnt mean a damn thing.. and they are a bunch of idiots if they somehow think its linked to the C4S cause its the same engine that has been in all 996's since inception. (ignoring small displacement increase)

if you have owned both a 993 and 996, and you stand by your opinion on build quality, I would say thats fine, but it means you dont know how to judge build quality at all..

The 996 interior and build quality is superior in every way to the 993.. Now you may like the 993 interior better.. but that doesnt mean it is from an analytical objective point of view.. To me, more space, less squeaks, better materials, and a tighter fit all mean better build quality regardless of the "style".

Anyways,, please.. the point is... dont take it all so serious and get all emotional.... its just a message board..

peace....

RJC

I'm not jumping on any bandwagons just reporting back what I've read...I suppose if the article was all positive you'd have no problems with it. As I mentioned the first part of the article was very positive and that's a pretty darn good indication it was fair and objective; read the article. Instead of saying thanks for the heads up, something to keep an eye out for etc you reply with insults. Most members here appreciate reports both good and bad especially in the case they experience the same unfortunate issue. There are many happy 996 drivers here and all over the world and hopefully this just effects a small few but if I still owned one it would be nice to know about...just in case and that's a part of why I posted it!

People are entitled to their opinions and observations, just like yours. Mine are mine and the mag's are their's and the magazines appear to be truly objective. I prefer the build quality of the air-cooled cars as do many others and Porsche purists and I'm not here to deabate this just state my own findings. I suppose the comments from the other totally seperate Porsche Service Manager, different from the one the magazine normally uses, which was also mentioned in the article, who commented on the seriousness and numerous amount of engine failures mean nothing too, and is all BS.

You make harsh and un-true/un-fair comments about my knowledge of build quality etc. which are uncalled for. I've owned many Porsches over the years and might just have more experience with them than you might think. Funny one of the biggest consumer complaints about the 996 according to Porsche themselves was the poor quality of the interior etc, and that's been toatlly changed for 2005 and they have tried to bring the car closer to the 993 looks and quality in every way possible.

I think you are a small minded person that is trying very hard to defend your car. I tried from the begining to take the high road and even I wished to "all" that you don't have any problems with your engine, but after reading your insults and calling me a liar plus this latest reply I hope your engine blows to high hell just like you.

Your posts are now on the ignore list so you can write replies to yourself; BTW you're the first person I've ever had to do this to even after 1500+ posts.

Oh one more thing, if my insult about you and your engine blowing to hell bothers you, "don't take it personally, it's only a message board".

Signal

yehawwwww.... awesome..

I dont take it personally.. at all...

If my engine blows.. oh well.. guess they will have to put a new one in.. I wont worry about it..

I dont have to defend my car, cause.. well.. its a car.. who cares..? its meant for driving, not getting upset about..

Have fun on the high road.. but I think you know its true that you were the one that came on here posting inaccurate information under the guise of innocently trying to inform us E55 owners that we made a good choice..

I simply called you out.. your post is inaccurate, and as one of the fortunate people who own both those cars as well as others, I wanted to correct you on your misinformation.. Someone else, or you, can feel free to disagree with me. as you have done..

But you however the only one acting like an over sensitive monkey.. :p

Just dont take it all sooooooo seriously...