ctravis595

99-01 7 series and 99-03 5 series bmw use a 80mm throttle body with the same connector as our mb cars, but requires re pinning the connector. I have not tested this throttle body with boost yet

GinDistiller

80mm ID? That was where the info was wrong on the Jeep unit, it was 80 OD but 74mm on the inside just like our stock TBs.

ctravis595

It’s bigger than my (02 cl55) 74mm tb for sure

the port of the throttle body measures 81.2mm

its hard to get the caliper on perfectly square, but the butterfly measures about 79.8mm

GinDistiller

Do you have a part # by chance? I'd love to try one but there are multiple engines for 7 and 5 series in those years. Looking at a picture of one I think is correct, it looks like it opens opposite so I'm guessing the re-pinning procedure posted for the earlier 80mm TBs is probably the same.

ctravis595

thats not very wise thinking, simply guessing which wires go where is a good way to fry a throttle body, maybe even your ecu as well

the purpose of re-pinning a throttle body connector is not because the valve opens a certain direction, it’s so that the wiring is still feeding voltage to the motor inside of the throttle body, instead of throwing voltage at some sort of Hall effect sensor the throttle body likely possesses(and vice versa), and frying the sensor, or maybe the throttle body, or maybe the ecu. The plug itself is identical to the connector we have on our Mercedes, but the wiring is definitely different

Anyways, why are you concerned with which direction the valve opens? Is this for a 55k engine? You should be less concerned with how the throttle body is mounted and how it opens with a boosted engine, that air will flow into the cylinders no matter which direction you aim it. It’s never a bad idea to optimize airflow but I’m struggling to understand how this could make a difference on any 113 engine

Most European electronic throttle bodies of this era were typically using 6 wires -

two wires feed the motor which controls the valve, the other 4 wires feed to two different sensors(I believe Hall effect sensors but I’m not certain)

the way I have found to re pin my wiring for this throttle body was to test resistance of each pin from the throttle body, write down the values and compare your readings to your other throttle body. The values will not be exact but they should be relatively similar to where you can cross reference each pin until it makes sense which are the two pins for the motor, and which wires go to which sensor, etc

if you have doubts you can actuate the throttle valve with your hand and watch the values change of each pin in the process. If you have further doubts you can disassemble the throttle body to see which pins run where, for example it’s very easy to see the two traces which lead to the throttle valve motor for example

I have not tested it but I believe this method will work to install many other 6 wire throttle bodies from other models or manufacturers, a lot of manufacturers were going to the same companies for components (Bosch for example)

GinDistiller

Oh no I'd definitely test prior, ideally get my hands on a wiring diagram for that application. I had one for the Jeep TB and I know the pins and voltage ranges of our stock TB. Merely speculating as 5-10 years ago when the 80mm TBs were popular there were a few applications of Porsche and Audi units that all shared the same pins to swap, and all happened to open opposite of our OEM ones. The MB ones that opened the same way never needed re-pinning. I'd be curious as to how similar BMWs is. Thanks for the pic.

lost27

I saw your post selling the 82mm, does this mean you found a replacement 80mm? If you did, how is the replacement?

GinDistiller

I'm still keeping an eye out, but the car is running so great on the stock TB that I'm quite happy. I have a spare - so I'm slowly working on a shaft grind and polish to try, we'll call that a 76 when it's done haha.

SICAMG

They are really cheap on Ebay...$150.00 or so....
Just have to do the pin swap like I did.

GinDistiller

​​The 80mm ones have dried up it seems (05 25 part number), only one on Ebay in Germany but it's been incorrectly listed. I keep checking frequently though!

SICAMG

I will look as well for you.

AgSilver

If you are using the SL55 throttle body PN 113 141 05 25 the pin swap is pins 1-4 and 2-3 blue/purple with blue/yellow solid blue with blue red.

lost27

@GinDistiller How has the car been on the stock TB? I'm finally throwing in the towel on my 82mm throttlebody. 4 TBs were tested with the last one being a brand new OEM peice, multiple tunes, thousands of dollars, and having the car in the shop for about 11 months combined. I'll be going back to the stock 74mm for now to see if I can reproduce the hiccup on the existing tune, might try the 80mm in the future but at this point I just need a car that isn't throwing a trouble code every time I drive it.

How these new 90 to 105 kits are being sold/run w/o any issues is mind boggling. I can't imagine all of them having zero issues.

ctravis595

most Mercedes owners will not readily admit they ruined their car trying to gain 10 horsepower

lost27

It was more like 27HP but yea, there is so much misinformation out there at least I'm trying to keep it real. For anyone considering any TB upgrade, think long and hard if you want to ruin the highway driveability of your car.

GinDistiller

Sorry for the delayed response! My schedule has been crazy lately. So no luck on finding an 80mm and there is no way spending the dealer list price is worth it for the gains on that, so I've abandoned it for now.

Short story - driveability has been perfect on the stock TB as expected, however I just pulled it off the car. Since I had a spare stock TB lying around, I also found some time to do the TB shaft grind just for grins. The grind turned out nicely, with the clearance I can't get a good gauge with my micrometer on how much material was removed, but it's probably equivalent to 2ish mm 'widened' so a very slight bump over stock. It's so hard to tell if this really made a difference in power, but the other odd issue is that it sets the P0505 and my idle TPS % is 1.2-1.6% which is too low. I did no grinding around the area where the plate sits at idle, so in theory I shouldn't be seeing this code, but I did remove the plate to do the work and maybe having it set in a SLIGHTLY different spot is throwing things off. I might try and adjust the idle up in STAR and see if that fixes it, or pull it back off and reposition the plate slightly. It was free HP so I'm not expecting miracles haha. Seat of the pants it seems to help with pickup acceleration just a little, the driveability seems nicer with the shaft grind to me but it's only been 2 days of driving so far. Good news is the idle control code does not trigger a hiccup and AFRs are fine.

lost27

@GinDistiller That is a bummer. The P0505 is most likely a leak introduced when you removed the TB to do the shaft grind. You could probably smoke test to verify or just really make sure that the adapter and TB are sealed well against the snout.

GinDistiller

Nope no adapter, this is the stock TB. The gasket looked great and nothing else was touched, although I haven't pulled it yet to see if the PCV connector at the bottom came loose or something (although I had added a worm clamp a while back just as extra protection against it slipping off). There is a decent bit of movement when you loosen the butterfly, it's not just drilled with two screw-width holes, so it's doubtful it was retorqued in the same spot and I wonder if it's preventing it from closing enough. It runs great so I know it's not binding or anything. But for the sake of no fuss I'll probably just slap my other stock TB back on unless I find an obvious problem.

ctravis595

i have heard more than once that trying to re-assemble these modern electronic throttle bodies does not work out well. So I can see where you are coming from

ctravis595

you re-used the gasket? We never re-use gaskets at Mercedes

GinDistiller

On the throttle body to snout? Yes, I think if we all used new gaskets on that connection Mercedes would catch on and start charging $20 a pop for them! (or maybe they do already). Metal gaskets like that, as long as they aren't all gunked or marred up seem to do just fine. I've probably had this off 5-6 times in the past and subsequently passed several smoke tests. I've had techs tell me we can re-use the surge tank gaskets but that is where I find myself drawing the line since they cover such a large area and are thinner than the TB gasket. Now the supercharger gaskets are a whole different story...

That's not to say I won't look closely when I pull it back off, but this issue specifically cropped up with my modified TB, never has it reared it's head on multiple TB swaps in the past.

GinDistiller

Pulled it off, PCV was on tight and gasket looked good. Tossed some copper coat on it just for kicks, re-assembled, still at 1.2% at idle. Went into STAR, now have more TB codes than before (potentiometer range issues etc).

Pulled it back off, put my other stock one on, back to 2.7% at idle and idle is smoother.

Moral of the story - if you want to try a shaft grind, there's a chance your TB plate won't be back in a good place. If you didn't have to red-loctite the screws I might spend time pulling it off, repositioning and trying again, but it's honestly just not worth it for somewhat minimal gains. Shame too because I got a nice polish on it! It's back to being the paperweight it was before.

I'll just keep looking for a factory 80

SICAMG

When I did mine I left the blade on and then just cleaned it real good.
Sounds like you need to put a good stocker back on and find some power somewhere else. Maybe a little more boost ??

GinDistiller

Yeah, I'm wishing I did it that way, just had noticed mention of adding loctite so I took the screws out. Stock is back on and will be reliable as it was before (this was an extra stock one I had laying around thankfully).

I've probably got plenty of power (77mm FSP, PLM headers etc) but I've now been spoiled by the nicer driveability of the 82mm TB when it wasn't trying to kill my car. If I ever have to pull the SC again maybe I'll look into the 90mm options. The tip-in power is just so nice!

GinDistiller

Thought I would update, I can now say I have an 80 (78) TB that fits and runs great! With the other mods I have it is still a definite improvement even though a few millimeters doesn't sound like much! Tip-in feel and power is noticeably improved over stock (not as much as the 82mm, but of course lean driving maps made keeping it impossible).

I managed to find a stock take off (A2751410625, off a CL600) for $75. It doesn't have the PCV inlet, but I simply T'd into the other crankcase hose inlet on the Y pipe for vacuum, so no drilling or modifications to anything.

The bolt pattern on these are different, and early on anyone who was using the 80mm had to make an adapter which of course isn't everyone's cup of tea. I pulled the trigger and bought the 82mm adapter thinking I could modify it somehow, but realized that two of the bolt holes still line up. You have to use RTV to seal anyway, so just make sure you have good coverage, let it cure for a bit and torque down a little further. The TB is never tugged or pulled while driving so two nicely torqued bolts and RTV sealant and it's not going anywhere.

So I leave this for anyone reading this thread all the way through - if you came here because your 82mm TB is giving you hell, but don't want to remove your adapter and slink back to a stock TB, look for one of these CL600 units. You already have the Y pipe (you'll need the stock rubber piece vs the thin orings if you kept it) and the adapter.