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Hey guys,
so last year i bought a E55 knowing one or two things were not perfect.
So i took it for a wheel alignment to a independent shop and they had some problems to align it correctly.
These are the specs to the alignment done.
Shortly after this i put the car for winter storage and picked it up last week.
Bought new tires for the front and ordered a wheel alignment at the dealers.
Today they call me and tell me that when they had the car within specs they took it out for a short drive.
afterward they put it on for alignment and it had all changed and every wheel was out of spec.
What can possibly cause that to happen on a short ride ?
Thank you and sorry for the bad english.
Last edited by pascalpals; 05-12-2021 at 12:37 PM.
Reason: Bad grammar
Having recently gone through some alignment drama with this car (was considering doing my own thread and still may) I will say it seems "normal" that the figures move around, as that has been exactly my experience after getting the car aligned twice within a couple weeks and being with the tech for the entire job. I assume it's a combination of a dozen squishy bushings (some of which are maybe not in tip top shape) and the fact that Airmatic doesn't always end up with an identical ride height (in fact spec says it can vary like within 10mm or something). Overall I would rate my alignment experience at a C- for this chassis. Best you can do is check for bad bushings and make sure you don't have any leaks where the ride height would end up way off during the alignment. If the answer is no to both, then, it is what it is.
I could not see if you had the mileage of your vehicle on that paper from the alignment shop. For what it's worth when my e55 reached 100,000 miles I had to perform a complete rebuild of the front suspension. I had three bad ball joints and two bad bushings so I just replaced all thrust arms, control arms, steering knuckle ball joints, upper ball joints, and outer tie rod ends. After that it aligned as it should and it drove like a dream. If your car becomes unstable in the rain when you're hitting small puddles then that is a good indication that you have bad ball joints and our bushings. Before the suspension rebuild I could only drive 45 to maybe 50 miles per hour in the rain. After the rebuild 70 and 75 was possible although I usually do not drive that fast in the rain.
Having recently gone through some alignment drama with this car (was considering doing my own thread and still may) I will say it seems "normal" that the figures move around, as that has been exactly my experience after getting the car aligned twice within a couple weeks and being with the tech for the entire job. I assume it's a combination of a dozen squishy bushings (some of which are maybe not in tip top shape) and the fact that Airmatic doesn't always end up with an identical ride height (in fact spec says it can vary like within 10mm or something). Overall I would rate my alignment experience at a C- for this chassis. Best you can do is check for bad bushings and make sure you don't have any leaks where the ride height would end up way off during the alignment. If the answer is no to both, then, it is what it is.
They said they couldn't see anythinanythm a quick glance.
so i had them inspect it and find out what is causing this.
Guess i will go there on friday and check the sheet myself.
I could not see if you had the mileage of your vehicle on that paper from the alignment shop. For what it's worth when my e55 reached 100,000 miles I had to perform a complete rebuild of the front suspension. I had three bad ball joints and two bad bushings so I just replaced all thrust arms, control arms, steering knuckle ball joints, upper ball joints, and outer tie rod ends. After that it aligned as it should and it drove like a dream. If your car becomes unstable in the rain when you're hitting small puddles then that is a good indication that you have bad ball joints and our bushings. Before the suspension rebuild I could only drive 45 to maybe 50 miles per hour in the rain. After the rebuild 70 and 75 was possible although I usually do not drive that fast in the rain.
The car just passed "inspection" or thats what we call it here and they didn't see anything wrong with anything.
1) bushings and/or ball joints are worn (as @bbirdwell alluded to above)
2) different/wrong alignment specs input into the alignment rack before measuring
3) Airmatic has the car sitting at a slightly different ride height as before (as mentioned by @kevm14 above)
4) The alignment is within spec and a tech is fiddling with the out-of-spec numbers to make it appear out of spec on a printout, perhaps to sell you a service
5) Everything really is okay
Don't get too hung up on numbers, especially computerized racks. If your suspension components are a little worn but not completely blown out, it can cause the numbers to jump around on a computerized rack due to loose tolerances. The original figures you posted up in the initial post are spot on. The only thing that is really adjustable on these cars is the toe. Yes, you can adjust camber with different lower control arm/thrust arm bolts but only like 0.3° per side. And I'm not saying this is the case, but on certain alignment programs, the values can be adjusted to a very narrow window of tolerance which will in turn make the car appear out of spec. Just a possibility to consider.
If the car is driving straight, there aren't weird creaks/groans/pops coming from the suspension and your tire wear pattern is okay, then drive the car and move on with your life.
FWIW, WIS shows that the camber bolt in the lower spring control arm should be worth +/- 0.7 degrees either direction (which equates to 4mm of lateral movement of the arm itself). However, my experience with camber bolts was miserable. I bought a Moog camber bolt (found other threads of folks buying the same). What we found was that the new bolt spun in the control arm bushing and it is not supposed to. It seems that maybe those welded dowels inside the bushing were missing from some previous grease monkey. We also found that since they were missing we were able to move the control arm laterally anyway. And at full inboard I was still at like -2.3 degrees camber on the right side. So theoretically I could throw a bunch of parts at the car to "fix" but that is dumb. Nothing seems worn out. Except it doesn't track as well as it should and will chew up tires faster than it should.
The worst part is when we first put the car on the rack the specs actually looked really good, contrary to the first time. But as we fiddled we got a reading similar to last time which showed camber out of spec on the front right (which I believe to be true). 90-120 minutes each time and in the end only toe got adjusted. Yeah, a disappointment. I'm tempted to elongate the subframe mounting holes for the control arm but obviously that's not reversible. Not sure I will commit to that but maybe I will if it continues to trash the inner tread on the right front tire.
Went and got the car back today.
These are the final numbers that they were able to get.
they had to put some adjustable camber and caster bolts to get it to the right setting.
Hope it will stop eating up my right front tire now.
Went and got the car back today.
These are the final numbers that they were able to get.
they had to put some adjustable camber and caster bolts to get it to the right setting.
Hope it will stop eating up my right front tire now.
Am I seeing that right? The before and after figures are identical... what did they adjust?
The W211 having only front and rear “Toe” directional adjustment. No Camber or Caster allowing to adjust tire contact angles, spread load more evenly.
It's all to do with cost cutting and the ever increasing speed of auto assembly lines.
KMAC has been resolving such OEM suspension shortcomings since 1964 and we saw the need therefore to reinstate once again from the early 90's full, precise front (and rear) adjustment !
Catering for other then showroom height conditions. High cambered roads, altered height through load carrying or lowering, fitting wide profile tires plus the benefit of ongoing adjustment capability including curb knock damage.
The most popular front kit (Camber & Caster) also at the same time replaces the 4 highest wearing bushings (70mm diameter with soft rubber, oil and air voids).
KMAC bushes are Monoball / 2 Axis design. There by still allowing arms to travel through their required suspension arcs without binding, locking up yet significant improvement to handling – less flex with tauter steering and braking response.
KMAC designs are constantly being upgraded, developed. This current front kit nothing comes close re strength, adjustment range, ease and accuracy of adjustment (4 times adjustment range of the inaccurate “one offset position” OEM fluted bolts).
Also budget priced – above kit but Camber adjustment only.
(less then the cost of one high performance tire) #502216-2G $295 (Both Sides) Not 4 MATIC
Alternative or if extra adjustment for track days. Front “upper arms” replacement inner bushings (bush extraction tool included – fit without need for arm removal). Up to 1.5 degrees “extra” pos. or neg.
Same as lower arm adjusters not welded fabricated arms but the security of retaining the existing OEM high strength forged alloy arms. #502216-1J $380 (Both Sides) Incl. 4 MATIC.
REAR SUSPENSION: Lower arm Camber adjustable bushes (2), plus extra Toe adjustment to compensate for the new rear Camber facility. Bush extraction tool included.
NOTE: Lower arm adjusters retain important clearance top of tire to outer fender clearance. While upper arms reduce this clearance when adjusting to resolve costly, premature inner edge tire wear. #502526K $480 (Both Sides) Incl. 4MATIC
Upper Camber arms (incl. Extra Toe to compensate for Camber change). #502526-1M $595 (Both Sides) Airmatic #502526-2M $595 (Both Sides) Non Airmatic
DHL Delivery Worldwide $40 one kit ($20 each extra)
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Hey guys,
so last year i bought a E55 knowing one or two things were not perfect.
So i took it for a wheel alignment to a independent shop and they had some problems to align it correctly.
These are the specs to the alignment done.
Shortly after this i put the car for winter storage and picked it up last week.
Bought new tires for the front and ordered a wheel alignment at the dealers.
Today they call me and tell me that when they had the car within specs they took it out for a short drive.
afterward they put it on for alignment and it had all changed and every wheel was out of spec.
What can possibly cause that to happen on a short ride ?
Thank you and sorry for the bad english.
So short version... these cars are a pain in the *** to align, even on a top of the line Hunter machine. If you want it done right, you have to set your suspension to sport II, and have the car running while it's on the alignment rack and they're pulling the numbers. If you can get them to let you sit in the driver seat, all the better.
Otherwise you have to start disabling features like the car kneeling when you open the door, etc. in order for the thing to stay put long enough to get the right numbers, and adjust them properly.
Yeah that sounds like my experience. I had it done in Sport I. I also tried with it running but as he predicted, the car put off so much heat that the heat waves began throwing off the sensors and making erratic readings.
As for the kneeling, I have noticed that, too. But I had concluded that the kneeling isn't actually kneeling. It's just setting the ride height (i.e. when you get out of the car). I've also seen it "kneel" after baking in a garage (after driving). The heat warms the bags and the ride height increases, so when you open a door Airmatic brings it back down. Does it really have a documented kneeling function?
05-12-2021, 12:36 PM
