c43M3

Nice!

adx

Forget about discussing the E55 vs M5 and let's discuss that nice picture.

cntlaw

Not a doubt USA is a paradise for super cars lovers with highways and low fuel cost. The money you pay for a C55 in USA will probably just enough to get a BMW 330i. Anyhow, the tax does not rise based on engine displacement. The vechicle resgistration tax shoots up exponetially for every HKD 100,000 (USD 12,500) incremental.
The base price of my C55 is eqv. to ~USD62000. The tax on top of it is over ~USD40000 !! This is why I paid USD 105000 for the C55.

Believe or not, based on standard of living and income in HK, foreign cars taxes are the 'cheapest' in HK than any other Asian countries that I know.

Bear in mind, there is no differentiation of foreign car tax or Japanese car tax
in HK. However, in Japan, they have high consumer tax for buying non Japanese made car. As a matter of fact, Japanese cars in Japan are still the cheapest among any countries in the world.


cnt

W210

I quite agree with you MikeHK, and that is why I feel certain manufacturers would like to create a niche market for their special cars to compete. For example, the RS6 plus and the Volvo R models a few years back being available in wagon form only. Like you said, the same group of target buyers but with different preferences.

And we as consumers have much to gain from all the healthy competition. We should also thank the Japanese for throwing in 'value' into the equation!

Belmondo

Oh my God, what a surprise, what a shocker, that cant be true may be it was between hte lines and you somehow missed it? Can you reread the mag? I'm sure its there written in milk, you just have to heat up hte page or something. I'm in shock. Were you the one pointing me to those numbers and telling me "there is your proooof" unreleased concept M5 faster than E55?
What a letdown it must be for you as it looked like you based
20 next years of your life on those numbers. I feel your pain, friend.

Belmondo

How can you? Isnt he the same guy who was throwing the bogus straight line numbers at you and screeming "accept it"!!!?

now that numbers did not materialized he just moved on to something else? Throw the stupid numbers back at him and let him deal with with the fact that he is just a clown.

cntlaw

this thread should be named : "E55 vs M5 = Offtopic "

MikeHK

I didn't throw any straight line numbers, I believe somebody else did. So I ain't a clown, please do your research before you bark, you are just making a clown of yourself.

Mike

W210

I was agreeing to the specific comment about the target audience having different preferences, that's all. The manufacturers are all targeting similar customers (probably mostly male between 30-50 with a serious chip on their shoulder fearing not having a fast enough car). However, even within this group, some may prefer a more luxurious car and others may want a gangster looking pimp ride while some may prefer a major wolf in sheep's skin wagon?

You know, I never take those numbers and comments too seriously and I think most of us only mocked the unprofessional 15 car lengths comment from AutoCar, nothing more. Can't even remember who said what when and don't really care as the strength of the M5 lies in its handling more so than outright acceleration, as far as I am concerned.

Even if those numbers are correct, the difference is so immaterial certainly not worth jumping up and down about. My judgement on the car will only be made after a test drive as I want to feel its handling more than anything.

Anyway, the fact of the matter is that those specific performance numbers copied from the M5 board seem to be made up and unfortunately there appears to be some engine problems hence no M5/E55 back to back comparison? And even if there is, the press cars may not be the fair representation of the final M5 as rumour has it that BMW is still working on a fix. The final M5 may be faster or slower.

Will the M5 be the perfect car for most? No, the perfect car doesn't exist. It should have the styling and comfort of the E55, handling of the M5, traction of the RS6, reliability of a Lexus, and the price of a smart. And it should have the real clown, Mr. Chris Bangle's head in the trunk.

Belmondo

What a nice guy you are. I hope that the "goon platoon" that registered here for the reason of putting that BS in everyones face here start worshiping you as their God and saviour.

cntlaw

Agree all your points. Here again my 2cents.

Not in our world , at least not at this moment, may be until 50% of the E55 W211 owners give up their E55 for a M5.

In HK, in terms of % of European cars sold here, we are possibly number 1 in Asia. Of course, we cannot be No.1 in terms of sale volume as we only have about 350,000 cars in HK. Where in Thailans, just only Bangkok has 1 million cars.

HK may not be an ideal place for worldwide research of 'consumer behavior" for super cars because their popularity and practicability. Japan must be the no.1 being a leader of bringing in European supercars to the country because they have more rich fans + highways than all Asian countries.

Nevertheless, in HK, we still have enough Eurpean exotic cars fans here and who can afford the money to own one. One should visit the MB center in HK here and find out how many new SLK are ready to be on the road. I am sure it will be the same when the 997 and new Ferrai shipments reach HK.

What all above implies, HK is not a market that to be ignored. Especially for supercars, it is not how many cars you have in the countries; rather the country's vechicle and tax policy as well as economy would affect the sale of the supercars. It is hard to find AMGs in good economy Singapore because their strict environment protection policy and high tax policy for engine displacement and power. ( Legal supercar made in Japan is 280hp max. )

Here, I did not notice many M5 and E55 W210 in past years. May be the down economy ( but why I can still see many new Porsche ? ); or may be the models themselves are not 'ready and matured' for our market here?

Back to my old question and on topic - why all of a sudden so many E55 W211 show up here ? May be true that more non official dealers import them faster than the official dealer. But , why the small capital non official dealers would want to take the risks of import so many E55 which is 1.25-1.3 million HKD street price!

The answer is only one - the E55 is damn fooking GOOD man !


cnt

krispykrme

1st of all, the autocar is already out. The comparison test has been posted. And yes, through out the KM, M5 tester did pull 0.6 second on the E55. Based on simple calculation, M5 is doing about 158.59 km/hr, while E55 is 154.5 km/hr both at 1km. Assuming that both car acceleration at that time is the same. So M5 has a 0.6 second advantage at 1km hour. So 0.6 second later, M5 is about 0.026 KM ahead. Translate into meter is 26.43 meters ahead. M5 length is about 4.841 meter. Which means M5 is about 5.5 car length ahead assuming both are still accelerating the same amount past 1km.

However if we are looking based on average acceleration- d=1/2 a* t^2
M5 is doing about 3.88m/second through out the 1km while E55 is doing about 3.68m/s.

1/2*3.88*23.3 (the time E55 is doing 1km)= 1053.20 m. Which means M5 is about 53 meter ahead /4.841=11 car length.

However, everything above is just one test done by one magazine at a certain time frame. With M5 spec not yet finalized, no one can say for conclusively that M5 will be faster in its production form versus the E55. However, we can conclude based on the figure published by autocar (no longer a rumour, as it was already published and document has been scanned) that autocar's comment although unprofessional in language did have back up based on hard number.

Whether or not this number is true, I can't verify it. Since no one here is autocar tester and no one have driven the M5. But the numbers were published and as a reader anyone should respect that. If the numbers are not to the liking of certain members here, perhaps all of you should go take a walk down to autocar and demand they hand over the tester so all of you can mug him.

All this arguing is pointless. However, to simply dismiss a profession magazine's publish number as pure rumour is ridiculous. Yes, there is a problem with one test car that was over-reved. Yes, BMW might have allowed the driver on the press car to rev to as high as 8500 RPM (which is not on the production car). So chances are that M5 in final form might be slower (could be faster as well, no one knows). But to diss autocar's test is ridiculous.

I am not defending the accuracy of the number of M5 vs E55 in final form. However, it appears that although Autocar's initial comment were unprofessional, it does appear to have support from simple caculation above. BUT THIS IS JUST ONE TEST AT ONE TIME EVENT. There is no need to pull a stunt like delmonte tomato did here.

W210

Agree! And didn't HK get something like 12 Enzos? Pretty impressive!

MikeHK

Well, a lot of the AMG you see in Hong Kong are fake, these people just on the AMG badge, body kit, wheels and exhaust to make it look good. I turely think car mentioned deserved to be driven on roads they were designed for. Not ****ty narrow bumpy streets of HK. Seeing them jamed in traffic all the time is hurting.

CNTLAW, again, I want you to realize one very important fact, great sales number doesn't mean a great car automatically. Blindly follows sales number will leave yourself one of those fellowers. I like to make decision myself, based on my own perferences not other's.

Belmondo

Here it goes another calculation from Kryspy Da Clown.

cntlaw

mike

your points are taken.
and then, what is the point of being a great car and nobody wants to buy it?

cnt

MikeHK

I don't take any losses or profit for a car being a good seller or not, so I will leave this for the car manufacturers to worry about. I as an end user, I worry about which car meet my perferences more. At the end of the day, I will only vote a car with my money because I like it myself, not because of the majority of people like it.

cntlaw

True , but if stick to the original subject , here we talk about M5 and E55 ; both are supercars developed from "street cars" sedans, which are intended to offer fun of sport as well as day-to-day use. If there were no "end-usres" exist, that will be quite pointless to talk about them in this forum.

cnt

MikeHK

Hmmm.... so you think there will be no M5 sold whatsoever? I don't really think so.

MikeHK

Moreover, if you are that much into sales number, I think you should had gone with the E46 M3 rather your current C55, since the 3er outsold the C by a big margin worldwide, I believe even in HK. Or perhaps everyone would be driving a Toyota camry or Honda Accord if your logic is right.

reggid

it may affect resale or trade in values! and unless you plan on keeping it forever it may mean a bigger loss.

MikeHK

It would be a factor in my considerations before signing the cheque, that's for sure. But for me, sales number or resale value likewise would not be on the top of my list. All in all, I am willing to PAY a bit more for what I prefer.

What CNTLAW claiming is the E class is a better car basically because it is selling better than the current 5er, which I don't agree. I would say it is a more popular car but not necessary a better car.

Jon200

good point but people might find it to distinguish between being popular and being better

most people think the popular car is the better car

cntlaw

Mike
I am a bit worried the way you followed threads.
You are putting words in my mouth.
You win , I give up
As you suggested, I should crash my 1 month old C55 and go buy a M3 with the money from the insurance claim.
Guess that would please you
Thank you
cnt

makken85

wow, that's really similar to the results i got a while ago. just one objection though, I think you should've calculated where the E55 will be when the M5 reaches 1km, instead of projecting where the M5 WILL be when the E55 reaches 1km. The reason for this is that we dont' know how the M5 will behave after it passes the 1km mark. it may keep the same acceleration, or it may slow down, etc. but if we keep both cars within the 1KM run, then the results should be pretty accurate.

So, based on your numbers, when the M5 is at 1km, the E55 is at 1/2 * 3.68 * 22.7^2 = 948.13 meters. A difference of 51.87 meters, or 10.7 carlengths.

PS. I'm a ChE major, this is my idea of fun

Yeah, there are a lot of 320 AMGs in HK, but I think there are AMG packages for the non-AMG benz models... I doubt they include an AMG tag though. I actually think HK is the perfect market for the AMG cars though. Yes, there is horrid traffic (can't count how many times i've been stuck in the cross harbor tunnels), but there are also some nice mountain roads on hong kong island.

With that said, I think the M5/M3s would be great for those mountain roads, however, once you get into the harbor areas and run into traffic... I think they would be too raw, especially when they only came in manual. [Personally, I love manual, and wouldn't mind sitting through traffic working first and second like mad, but I can definately understand why some people would perfer automatic in HK]

On the other end of the spectrum, a Lexus LS430 would be a joy to sit in when stuck in traffic, especially with its audio system. However, that thing would fail to perform at all when you get up to the mountains.

The AMGs would offer the perfect compromise. They have an auto and comfort features, which makes being in traffic bearable, yet, they also handle well enough to not be sloppy on the mountain passes.