AUTOCAR - M5 vs E55 vs MQ, Article...
#26
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AMG C43,99M3,400hp Eagle Talon,94BMW 332i
Originally Posted by MMAfia
that seems to be a pretty one-sided review.... but the decision they make is quite emphatic without any doubt whatsoever.
you forgot the last page...
hmm... well, i dunno about going THAT far, but overall, it seems that the M5 is going to be the winner of future road tests and comparisons with other sports saloons.
what i did find interesting is that they thought the interior of the M5 was the best among the three... go figure.
you forgot the last page...
hmm... well, i dunno about going THAT far, but overall, it seems that the M5 is going to be the winner of future road tests and comparisons with other sports saloons.
what i did find interesting is that they thought the interior of the M5 was the best among the three... go figure.
#27
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Originally Posted by MMAfia
bwaahahahaa... dayum, i remember those days... back in the philippines and in korea it's the same deal. i remember pimping in a 260E over a decade ago as a HS kid like that was the shiznit. even a 190E 2.3-16 was the shiznit back then with 300% tax.
so glad to be in america mang. seriously... it sux back there... everything based also on engine displacement nonsense...
there would be no way i would have enjoyed the cars i have in this country back in those places. HELLZ NO!!!
i go back these days for the chics. HANDS DOWN, MUCH better looking than the asian chics here... can we say turkey town or 588????![naughty](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/naughty.gif)
so glad to be in america mang. seriously... it sux back there... everything based also on engine displacement nonsense...
there would be no way i would have enjoyed the cars i have in this country back in those places. HELLZ NO!!!
i go back these days for the chics. HANDS DOWN, MUCH better looking than the asian chics here... can we say turkey town or 588????
![naughty](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/naughty.gif)
![naughty](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/naughty.gif)
#28
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C55AMG W203; 330i E90
Originally Posted by MMAfia
so glad to be in america mang. seriously... it sux back there... everything based also on engine displacement nonsense...
:
:
Not a doubt USA is a paradise for super cars lovers with highways and low fuel cost. The money you pay for a C55 in USA will probably just enough to get a BMW 330i. Anyhow, the tax does not rise based on engine displacement. The vechicle resgistration tax shoots up exponetially for every HKD 100,000 (USD 12,500) incremental.
The base price of my C55 is eqv. to ~USD62000. The tax on top of it is over ~USD40000 !!
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
Believe or not, based on standard of living and income in HK, foreign cars taxes are the 'cheapest' in HK than any other Asian countries that I know.
Bear in mind, there is no differentiation of foreign car tax or Japanese car tax
in HK. However, in Japan, they have high consumer tax for buying non Japanese made car. As a matter of fact, Japanese cars in Japan are still the cheapest among any countries in the world.
cnt
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2000 W210 E55->2003 R230 SL500->2004 W211 E55->2007 997TT+2007 E63->2010 GLK350->2012 E550 4matic
Originally Posted by MikeHK
There are more than the straight line speed when it comes down to a buying decision. The 2 cars are built as competitors, for the same group of target buyers, but percisely, they are built for diff buyers with different perferences within the group.
And we as consumers have much to gain from all the healthy competition. We should also thank the Japanese for throwing in 'value' into the equation!
#30
Originally Posted by Bilal
Strange, I checked out the magazine yesterday, and there were no numbers whatsoever? Then where did the person who posted last week the M5 comprehensively beating the E55 in acceleration, get their numbers from?
![Mad](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif)
What a letdown it must be for you as it looked like you based
20 next years of your life on those numbers. I feel your pain, friend.
#31
Originally Posted by W210
I quite agree with you MikeHK,
now that numbers did not materialized he just moved on to something else? Throw the stupid numbers back at him and let him deal with with the fact that he is just a clown.
#33
Originally Posted by Belmondo
How can you? Isnt he the same guy who was throwing the bogus straight line numbers at you and screeming "accept it"!!!?
now that numbers did not materialized he just moved on to something else? Throw the stupid numbers back at him and let him deal with with the fact that he is just a clown.
now that numbers did not materialized he just moved on to something else? Throw the stupid numbers back at him and let him deal with with the fact that he is just a clown.
Mike
Last edited by MikeHK; 09-24-2004 at 12:16 PM.
#34
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2000 W210 E55->2003 R230 SL500->2004 W211 E55->2007 997TT+2007 E63->2010 GLK350->2012 E550 4matic
Now let's be nice.
Originally Posted by Belmondo
How can you? Isnt he the same guy who was throwing the bogus straight line numbers at you and screeming "accept it"!!!?
now that numbers did not materialized he just moved on to something else? Throw the stupid numbers back at him and let him deal with with the fact that he is just a clown.
now that numbers did not materialized he just moved on to something else? Throw the stupid numbers back at him and let him deal with with the fact that he is just a clown.
You know, I never take those numbers and comments too seriously and I think most of us only mocked the unprofessional 15 car lengths comment from AutoCar, nothing more. Can't even remember who said what when and don't really care as the strength of the M5 lies in its handling more so than outright acceleration, as far as I am concerned.
Even if those numbers are correct, the difference is so immaterial certainly not worth jumping up and down about. My judgement on the car will only be made after a test drive as I want to feel its handling more than anything.
Anyway, the fact of the matter is that those specific performance numbers copied from the M5 board seem to be made up and unfortunately there appears to be some engine problems hence no M5/E55 back to back comparison? And even if there is, the press cars may not be the fair representation of the final M5 as rumour has it that BMW is still working on a fix. The final M5 may be faster or slower.
Will the M5 be the perfect car for most? No, the perfect car doesn't exist. It should have the styling and comfort of the E55, handling of the M5, traction of the RS6, reliability of a Lexus, and the price of a smart. And it should have the real clown, Mr. Chris Bangle's head in the trunk.
Last edited by W210; 09-24-2004 at 12:59 PM.
#35
Originally Posted by W210
?
You know, I never take those numbers and comments too seriously and I think most of us only mocked the unprofessional 15 car lengths comment from AutoCar, nothing more. Can't even remember who said what when and don't really care as the strength of the M5 lies in its handling more so than outright acceleration, as far as I am concerned.
You know, I never take those numbers and comments too seriously and I think most of us only mocked the unprofessional 15 car lengths comment from AutoCar, nothing more. Can't even remember who said what when and don't really care as the strength of the M5 lies in its handling more so than outright acceleration, as far as I am concerned.
#36
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C55AMG W203; 330i E90
Originally Posted by W210
Will the M5 be the perfect car for most? .
Not in our world , at least not at this moment, may be until 50% of the E55 W211 owners give up their E55 for a M5.
In HK, in terms of % of European cars sold here, we are possibly number 1 in Asia. Of course, we cannot be No.1 in terms of sale volume as we only have about 350,000 cars in HK. Where in Thailans, just only Bangkok has 1 million cars.
HK may not be an ideal place for worldwide research of 'consumer behavior" for super cars because their popularity and practicability. Japan must be the no.1 being a leader of bringing in European supercars to the country because they have more rich fans + highways than all Asian countries.
Nevertheless, in HK, we still have enough Eurpean exotic cars fans here and who can afford the money to own one. One should visit the MB center in HK here and find out how many new SLK are ready to be on the road. I am sure it will be the same when the 997 and new Ferrai shipments reach HK.
What all above implies, HK is not a market that to be ignored. Especially for supercars, it is not how many cars you have in the countries; rather the country's vechicle and tax policy as well as economy would affect the sale of the supercars. It is hard to find AMGs in good economy Singapore because their strict environment protection policy and high tax policy for engine displacement and power. ( Legal supercar made in Japan is 280hp max. )
Here, I did not notice many M5 and E55 W210 in past years. May be the down economy ( but why I can still see many new Porsche ? ); or may be the models themselves are not 'ready and matured' for our market here?
Back to my old question and on topic - why all of a sudden so many E55 W211 show up here ? May be true that more non official dealers import them faster than the official dealer. But , why the small capital non official dealers would want to take the risks of import so many E55 which is 1.25-1.3 million HKD street price!
The answer is only one - the E55 is damn fooking GOOD man !
cnt
#37
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Originally Posted by W210
Even if those numbers are correct, the difference is so immaterial certainly not worth jumping up and down about. My judgement on the car will only be made after a test drive as I want to feel its handling more than anything.
Will the M5 be the perfect car for most? No, the perfect car doesn't exist. It should have the styling and comfort of the E55, handling of the M5, traction of the RS6, reliability of a Lexus, and the price of a smart. And it should have the real clown, Mr. Chris Bangle's head in the trunk.
Will the M5 be the perfect car for most? No, the perfect car doesn't exist. It should have the styling and comfort of the E55, handling of the M5, traction of the RS6, reliability of a Lexus, and the price of a smart. And it should have the real clown, Mr. Chris Bangle's head in the trunk.
However if we are looking based on average acceleration- d=1/2 a* t^2
M5 is doing about 3.88m/second through out the 1km while E55 is doing about 3.68m/s.
1/2*3.88*23.3 (the time E55 is doing 1km)= 1053.20 m. Which means M5 is about 53 meter ahead /4.841=11 car length.
However, everything above is just one test done by one magazine at a certain time frame. With M5 spec not yet finalized, no one can say for conclusively that M5 will be faster in its production form versus the E55. However, we can conclude based on the figure published by autocar (no longer a rumour, as it was already published and document has been scanned) that autocar's comment although unprofessional in language did have back up based on hard number.
Whether or not this number is true, I can't verify it. Since no one here is autocar tester and no one have driven the M5. But the numbers were published and as a reader anyone should respect that. If the numbers are not to the liking of certain members here, perhaps all of you should go take a walk down to autocar and demand they hand over the tester so all of you can mug him.
![wwf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/chairshot.gif)
All this arguing is pointless. However, to simply dismiss a profession magazine's publish number as pure rumour is ridiculous. Yes, there is a problem with one test car that was over-reved. Yes, BMW might have allowed the driver on the press car to rev to as high as 8500 RPM (which is not on the production car). So chances are that M5 in final form might be slower (could be faster as well, no one knows). But to diss autocar's test is ridiculous.
I am not defending the accuracy of the number of M5 vs E55 in final form. However, it appears that although Autocar's initial comment were unprofessional, it does appear to have support from simple caculation above. BUT THIS IS JUST ONE TEST AT ONE TIME EVENT. There is no need to pull a stunt like delmonte tomato did here.
#38
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2000 W210 E55->2003 R230 SL500->2004 W211 E55->2007 997TT+2007 E63->2010 GLK350->2012 E550 4matic
Originally Posted by cntlaw
What all above implies, HK is not a market that to be ignored. Especially for supercars, it is not how many cars you have in the countries; rather the country's vechicle and tax policy as well as economy would affect the sale of the supercars. It is hard to find AMGs in good economy Singapore because their strict environment protection policy and high tax policy for engine displacement and power. ( Legal supercar made in Japan is 280hp max. )... The answer is only one - the E55 is damn fooking GOOD man !
cnt
cnt
#39
Originally Posted by W210
Agree! And didn't HK get something like 12 Enzos? Pretty impressive!
CNTLAW, again, I want you to realize one very important fact, great sales number doesn't mean a great car automatically. Blindly follows sales number will leave yourself one of those fellowers. I like to make decision myself, based on my own perferences not other's.
Last edited by MikeHK; 09-25-2004 at 04:00 AM.
#40
Originally Posted by krispykrme
Based on simple calculation, M5 is doing about 158.59 km/hr, while E55 is 154.5 km/hr both at 1km. Assuming that both car acceleration at that time is the same. So M5 has a 0.6 second advantage at 1km hour. So 0.6 second later, M5 is about 0.026 KM ahead. Translate into meter is 26.43 meters ahead. M5 length is about 4.841 meter. Which means M5 is about 5.5 car length ahead assuming both are still accelerating the same amount past 1km.
However if we are looking based on average acceleration- d=1/2 a* t^2
M5 is doing about 3.88m/second through out the 1km while E55 is doing about 3.68m/s.
1/2*3.88*23.3 (the time E55 is doing 1km)= 1053.20 m. Which means M5 is about 53 meter ahead /4.841=11 car length.
However, everything above is just one test done by one magazine at a certain time frame.
However if we are looking based on average acceleration- d=1/2 a* t^2
M5 is doing about 3.88m/second through out the 1km while E55 is doing about 3.68m/s.
1/2*3.88*23.3 (the time E55 is doing 1km)= 1053.20 m. Which means M5 is about 53 meter ahead /4.841=11 car length.
However, everything above is just one test done by one magazine at a certain time frame.
#41
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C55AMG W203; 330i E90
Originally Posted by MikeHK
Well, a lot of the AMG you see in Hong Kong are fake, these people just on the AMG badge, body kit, wheels and exhaust to make it look good. I turely think car mentioned deserved to be driven on roads they were designed for. Not ****ty narrow bumpy streets of HK. Seeing them jamed in traffic all the time is hurting.
CNTLAW, again, I want you to realize one very important fact, great sales number doesn't mean a great car automatically. Blindly follows sales number will leave yourself one of those fellowers. I like to make decision myself, based on my own perferences not other's.
CNTLAW, again, I want you to realize one very important fact, great sales number doesn't mean a great car automatically. Blindly follows sales number will leave yourself one of those fellowers. I like to make decision myself, based on my own perferences not other's.
mike
your points are taken.
and then, what is the point of being a great car and nobody wants to buy it?
cnt
#42
Originally Posted by cntlaw
mike
your points are taken.
and then, what is the point of being a great car and nobody wants to buy it?
cnt
your points are taken.
and then, what is the point of being a great car and nobody wants to buy it?
cnt
#43
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C55AMG W203; 330i E90
Originally Posted by MikeHK
I don't take any losses or profit for a car being a good seller or not, so I will leave this for the car manufacturers to worry about. I as an end user, I worry about which car meet my perferences more. At the end of the day, I will only vote a car with my money because I like it myself, not because of the majority of people like it.
cnt
#44
Originally Posted by cntlaw
True , but if stick to the original subject , here we talk about M5 and E55 ; both are supercars developed from "street cars" sedans, which are intended to offer fun of sport as well as day-to-day use. If there were no "end-usres" exist, that will be quite pointless to talk about them in this forum.
cnt
cnt
#45
Originally Posted by cntlaw
mike
your points are taken.
and then, what is the point of being a great car and nobody wants to buy it?
cnt
your points are taken.
and then, what is the point of being a great car and nobody wants to buy it?
cnt
#46
Originally Posted by MikeHK
I don't take any losses or profit for a car being a good seller or not, so I will leave this for the car manufacturers to worry about. I as an end user, I worry about which car meet my perferences more. At the end of the day, I will only vote a car with my money because I like it myself, not because of the majority of people like it.
#47
Originally Posted by reggid
it may affect resale or trade in values! and unless you plan on keeping it forever it may mean a bigger loss.
What CNTLAW claiming is the E class is a better car basically because it is selling better than the current 5er, which I don't agree. I would say it is a more popular car but not necessary a better car.
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Originally Posted by MikeHK
What CNTLAW claiming is the E class is a better car basically because it is selling better than the current 5er, which I don't agree. I would say it is a more popular car but not necessary a better car.
most people think the popular car is the better car
#49
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C55AMG W203; 330i E90
Originally Posted by MikeHK
What CNTLAW claiming is the E class is a better car basically because it is selling better than the current 5er, which I don't agree. I would say it is a more popular car but not necessary a better car.
Mike
I am a bit worried the way you followed threads.
You are putting words in my mouth.
You win , I give up
As you suggested, I should crash my 1 month old C55 and go buy a M3 with the money from the insurance claim.
Guess that would please you
Thank you
cnt
#50
Just a few points I would like to bring up...
Originally Posted by W210
Will the M5 be the perfect car for most? No, the perfect car doesn't exist. It should have the styling and comfort of the E55, handling of the M5, traction of the RS6, reliability of a Lexus, and the price of a smart. And it should have the real clown, Mr. Chris Bangle's head in the trunk.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Originally Posted by krispykrme
1st of all, the autocar is already out. The comparison test has been posted. And yes, through out the KM, M5 tester did pull 0.6 second on the E55. Based on simple calculation, M5 is doing about 158.59 km/hr, while E55 is 154.5 km/hr both at 1km. Assuming that both car acceleration at that time is the same. So M5 has a 0.6 second advantage at 1km hour. So 0.6 second later, M5 is about 0.026 KM ahead. Translate into meter is 26.43 meters ahead. M5 length is about 4.841 meter. Which means M5 is about 5.5 car length ahead assuming both are still accelerating the same amount past 1km.
However if we are looking based on average acceleration- d=1/2 a* t^2
M5 is doing about 3.88m/second through out the 1km while E55 is doing about 3.68m/s.
1/2*3.88*23.3 (the time E55 is doing 1km)= 1053.20 m. Which means M5 is about 53 meter ahead /4.841=11 car length.
However, everything above is just one test done by one magazine at a certain time frame. With M5 spec not yet finalized, no one can say for conclusively that M5 will be faster in its production form versus the E55. However, we can conclude based on the figure published by autocar (no longer a rumour, as it was already published and document has been scanned) that autocar's comment although unprofessional in language did have back up based on hard number.
Whether or not this number is true, I can't verify it. Since no one here is autocar tester and no one have driven the M5. But the numbers were published and as a reader anyone should respect that. If the numbers are not to the liking of certain members here, perhaps all of you should go take a walk down to autocar and demand they hand over the tester so all of you can mug him.
However if we are looking based on average acceleration- d=1/2 a* t^2
M5 is doing about 3.88m/second through out the 1km while E55 is doing about 3.68m/s.
1/2*3.88*23.3 (the time E55 is doing 1km)= 1053.20 m. Which means M5 is about 53 meter ahead /4.841=11 car length.
However, everything above is just one test done by one magazine at a certain time frame. With M5 spec not yet finalized, no one can say for conclusively that M5 will be faster in its production form versus the E55. However, we can conclude based on the figure published by autocar (no longer a rumour, as it was already published and document has been scanned) that autocar's comment although unprofessional in language did have back up based on hard number.
Whether or not this number is true, I can't verify it. Since no one here is autocar tester and no one have driven the M5. But the numbers were published and as a reader anyone should respect that. If the numbers are not to the liking of certain members here, perhaps all of you should go take a walk down to autocar and demand they hand over the tester so all of you can mug him.
So, based on your numbers, when the M5 is at 1km, the E55 is at 1/2 * 3.68 * 22.7^2 = 948.13 meters. A difference of 51.87 meters, or 10.7 carlengths.
PS. I'm a ChE major, this is my idea of fun
![hammer](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/bonk.gif)
Originally Posted by MikeHK
Well, a lot of the AMG you see in Hong Kong are fake, these people just on the AMG badge, body kit, wheels and exhaust to make it look good. I turely think car mentioned deserved to be driven on roads they were designed for. Not ****ty narrow bumpy streets of HK. Seeing them jamed in traffic all the time is hurting.
CNTLAW, again, I want you to realize one very important fact, great sales number doesn't mean a great car automatically. Blindly follows sales number will leave yourself one of those fellowers. I like to make decision myself, based on my own perferences not other's.
CNTLAW, again, I want you to realize one very important fact, great sales number doesn't mean a great car automatically. Blindly follows sales number will leave yourself one of those fellowers. I like to make decision myself, based on my own perferences not other's.
With that said, I think the M5/M3s would be great for those mountain roads, however, once you get into the harbor areas and run into traffic... I think they would be too raw, especially when they only came in manual. [Personally, I love manual, and wouldn't mind sitting through traffic working first and second like mad, but I can definately understand why some people would perfer automatic in HK]
On the other end of the spectrum, a Lexus LS430 would be a joy to sit in when stuck in traffic, especially with its audio system. However, that thing would fail to perform at all when you get up to the mountains.
The AMGs would offer the perfect compromise. They have an auto and comfort features, which makes being in traffic bearable, yet, they also handle well enough to not be sloppy on the mountain passes.