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Fellas, I need your opinion regarding swapping Arimatic with coilovers. I was thinking to do a swap either in Feb or Mar, so pretty much soon. Currently I'm documenting the process and watching videos in order to better understand the process from start to finish. But recently I found few listings where they were selling highly modified E55 and CLS55 and in both cases they had coilovers. For some reason those cars were still listed for a while. I wonder how this swap affects the car value? Do you think E55 or CLS55 with BC coilovers is something that potential buyer won't appreciate? My car has about 90K miles so it's not a low mileage car. To me low mileage car is something between 30K and 40K miles assuming it's a 2006 car.
These cars aren’t appreciating, they are 20 years old or so in some cases. You will be running into parts availability problems soon. You said highly modified cars, which most people will run from. Having Mercedes with ABC and airmatic, all I can say is that I’m glad I switched to coilover. Then I can put my efforts int fixing every other issue.
Fellas, I need your opinion regarding swapping Arimatic with coilovers. I was thinking to do a swap either in Feb or Mar, so pretty much soon. Currently I'm documenting the process and watching videos in order to better understand the process from start to finish. But recently I found few listings where they were selling highly modified E55 and CLS55 and in both cases they had coilovers. For some reason those cars were still listed for a while. I wonder how this swap affects the car value? Do you think E55 or CLS55 with BC coilovers is something that potential buyer won't appreciate? My car has about 90K miles so it's not a low mileage car. To me low mileage car is something between 30K and 40K miles assuming it's a 2006 car.
At this point, 90k miles is pretty low. Mine just rolled over 160k today :-)
In my opinion (I know this is not shared by many), the AIrmatic was one of the things I really like about the E55. When I was looking to purchase my second car, I would not consider one that had coilovers (and I work for a coilover company). I drive my car often for over 500 on trips (one way). Having the adjustability of the AIrmatic is great for varying conditions. I also haul a fair amount of gear. I had a couple hundred pounds of stuff in the trunk and the self leveling feature was very much needed.
In the end, it depends on what someone is planning to do with the car. If it is a weekend toy, coilovers might be great. If it is used for a daily and over long distance, the stock suspension is pretty great. Getting the AIrmatic to work correctly is not that difficult, but it can be expensive. I replaced pretty much every part in the system on mine. I do the work myself and get good deals on parts, so it is a different situation to those that have someone else service their cars.
These cars aren’t appreciating, they are 20 years old or so in some cases. You will be running into parts availability problems soon. You said highly modified cars, which most people will run from. Having Mercedes with ABC and airmatic, all I can say is that I’m glad I switched to coilover. Then I can put my efforts int fixing every other issue.
I agree with you. I only wanted to know if coilovers in general will scare away potential buyers or not. In my case it's not heavily modified, but it has Renntech R2 package. I didn't do stuff like larger intercooler, or high performance injectors or separate supercharger cooling etc.
I want to have a peace of mind knowing the car won't suddenly drop. And coilovers (adjustable or not) give such peace of mind. But also I need to understand how it may affect sales when it's time to sell it.
At this point, 90k miles is pretty low. Mine just rolled over 160k today :-)
In my opinion (I know this is not shared by many), the AIrmatic was one of the things I really like about the E55. When I was looking to purchase my second car, I would not consider one that had coilovers (and I work for a coilover company). I drive my car often for over 500 on trips (one way). Having the adjustability of the AIrmatic is great for varying conditions. I also haul a fair amount of gear. I had a couple hundred pounds of stuff in the trunk and the self leveling feature was very much needed.
In the end, it depends on what someone is planning to do with the car. If it is a weekend toy, coilovers might be great. If it is used for a daily and over long distance, the stock suspension is pretty great. Getting the AIrmatic to work correctly is not that difficult, but it can be expensive. I replaced pretty much every part in the system on mine. I do the work myself and get good deals on parts, so it is a different situation to those that have someone else service their cars.
Just my $.02
Thank you for your input. Yes, it seems that coilovers may become a reason for a price negotiation because every potential buyer may say something like "oh, I need a soft ride, but your car doesn't have Airmatic anymore, I can live with that but I need a discount...".
At 90,000 miles I would guess that the struts and shocks in the rear may be close to their service limit, maybe you can keep these and when you decide to sell yiu can include all of the parts this is a modification that can be reversed.
I would guess that your modifications otherwise will detract more than coilovers, as most buyers usually pay less for that. There may be someone that will pay more, but I would bet there will be more educated buyers that will appreciate coilovers.
At 90,000 miles I would guess that the struts and shocks in the rear may be close to their service limit, maybe you can keep these and when you decide to sell yiu can include all of the parts this is a modification that can be reversed.
I would guess that your modifications otherwise will detract more than coilovers, as most buyers usually pay less for that. There may be someone that will pay more, but I would bet there will be more educated buyers that will appreciate coilovers.
Thank you. Of course I won't sell parts. I'm on the fence right now because car started to sag on the rear because I don't drive it often. It's garaged. So basically a pair of Arnott bags (if the problem is with bags) will cost me about $900-$1000. But BC coilovers with lower arms will cost about $1600 + tax (from FCPEuro) or more if I decide to use Swift springs. But in the long run I get peace of mind...
If you want to maintain the cars value I'd go with quality components such as KW V2. I've installed steel suspension on all my cars and have no regrets.
The thing about those modified cars is, what has been done and how well it has been done. My E55 has a fair bit of mods and people have asked me if I'd sell it, even though it's not listed and I don't intend to sell it. Same goes for my CLS. If I'd see a car with generic mods you can get from the usual places, I'd avoid it personally, because it shows, the owner wasn't too knowledgeable about these cars and engines.
If you want to maintain the cars value I'd go with quality components such as KW V2. I've installed steel suspension on all my cars and have no regrets.
The thing about those modified cars is, what has been done and how well it has been done. My E55 has a fair bit of mods and people have asked me if I'd sell it, even though it's not listed and I don't intend to sell it. Same goes for my CLS. If I'd see a car with generic mods you can get from the usual places, I'd avoid it personally, because it shows, the owner wasn't too knowledgeable about these cars and engines.
Thank you. I heard KW support is worse than BC if you need to get some answers or replace something. Please tell if you would go with front Swift springs or the regular ones?
Fellas I'd like to proceed with coilover conversion soon, so got few other questions:
1) If you got to FCP Euro and search for coilovers for W211 model, they will also suggest you need a pair rear lower arms 2113501806. Yes, I know I need these arms for coilover conversion OEM ones are currently sold for $143/each on Amazon while FCP asks $180/each. And Rockauto sells Suspensia arms for only $60/each. I wonder if anyone have experience with this Suspensia brand? They look veeeery similar to OEM ones. I suspect they remanufacture the OEM ones with new bushings.
2) Also FCP Euro suggests that you may need shims - Mercedes Coil Spring Shim - Genuine Mercedes 2033240084. I wonder if I really need these shims when converting Airmatic suspension to coilovers?
Here is the link: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...des-2033240084
3) I see CQHall posted a pic with lots of parts. I wonder if I really need those bolts, nuts etc? I thought I could order a pair or rear lower arms and reuse everything else including arm plastic covers. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
4) Currently I'm trying to choose between BC Racing and Silver's Neomax coilovers. If you only had to choose between these two brands, which one you would pick and why?
Fellas, I got BC Racing coilovers. I haven't installed it yet because I'm currently gathering all required information etc.
Anyway I already have few questions:
1) In the manual they say that springs already come preloaded to 2-3mm and there is no need to do anything unless they are loose. But if they are loose then you have two rings that need to be adjusted together and then locked against each other. Since it's pretty easy to make things unequal on left and right strut then what's the best way to tighten the springs if they are loose?
2) They say that the "rear ride height on a vehicle with separate coil spring and shock setup is determined by the overall length of the spring and spring adjuster assembly". This is what we have in our W211/W219 cars. Now I wonder why we need to adjust the length of the shock absorber? They say "adjust the shock assembly by screwing the shock body down into the lower mount or up until the lower mount matches the mounting hole of the rear lower control arm and can be bolted". I'm not sure what they mean here and does it mean the rear adjustable shock absorber by default doesn't have the same length as the factory rear shock absorber?
3) Above the rear spring there is some kind of spring adjuster assembly. They say "<!--td {border: 1px solid #cccccc;}br {mso-data-placement:same-cell;}-->Adjust the locking rings "2" on the spring perch to your desired height, and jack the bucket up to keep the spring taut or you may jack it further by 3-5mm for preload." I don't understand what does it mean "jack the bucket" etc.
I did a photo copy of the manual that was included with the order:
Today I continued my research and found out the following:
1) BC Racing tech rep told me the manual is general and may not reflect my setup (that's awesome lol, right?). He suggested to check their YT videos regarding adjusting preload on the separate spring and shock absorber.
2) I found one video on their YT channel. Now I better understand the process. The top column that is inserted into the rear spring is for the height only. And the adjustment you do on that column is not equal to car's rear height. So if you increase the suspension height by 5mm, the car's height may be increased by different number of millimeters.
3) The adjustable shock absorber controls the preload. On their video (I post a link to that video below) they basically put a jack underneath the control arm when the spring had zero preload and then jacked the arm to like 10mm. then they aligned the holes on the shock absorber and the control arm and tightened the shock absorber.
4) I think different cars may require different approach for setting the preload correctly. Another approach is to bolt the shock absorber and then adjust it's height till the length of the spring is decreased by i.e. 10mm. Of course first you need to make sure you know the default length of the spring which should be printed on its soils.
5) They (BC rep) told me the front strut has correct preload set from the factory and that I shouldn't adjust it.
6) My main concern now is the "zero preload" state. What is it? Some say it's when the ring that hold the spring (on the front strut) barely touches the spring. To me the word "barely" means nothing because when they say you need to adjust preload by 10mm then how can you make sure that on both sides the ring "barely" touches the spring? And what happens if on one side you will have more spring compression than on another? Does a single millimeter matter? Also I see videos where people claim that zero preload is when you hand tight the ring (that holds the spring) on the front strut till you can't further tighten it. Obviously different people have different grip and strength, so to me this approach isn't precise.
7) The zero preload on the rear suspension is even trickier because there is no ring that holds the spring. So I think it's better to measure the initial length of the spring and then try to make sure that the adjusted height is i.e. 10mm less. The only problem is because spring sits in the hole in the rear lower arm it's not easy to measure the adjusted spring height. You could measure the distance between control arm surface and the ring above the spring, but can you do it right on each side?
To summarize it I think that installing the coilovers on W211 means you can't identically set the preload of the rear springs and if you start playing with the ride height (assuming the ride height is set equally on left and right components of the coilovers kit at the BC factory) there is still a chance you won't identically set the height on left and right sides.
PS: I wonder how Mercedes techs perform alignment on these cars? What are the adjustable components that they adjust to correct the camber or toe parameters? I haven't inspected my car's suspension yet, but if i.e. Camber King sells rear adjustable camber arms for W211/W219 then does it mean Mercedes doesn't do the rear camber adjustment when they perform the alignment?
Here is the BC video though you can find more similar videos on different YT channels: <!--td {border: 1px solid #cccccc;}br {mso-data-placement:same-cell;}-->
[QUOTE=Sergey84;8937749]Today I continued my research and found out the following:
1) BC Racing tech rep told me the manual is general and may not reflect my setup (that's awesome lol, right?). He suggested to check their YT videos regarding adjusting preload on the separate spring and shock absorber.
2) I found one video on their YT channel. Now I better understand the process. The top column that is inserted into the rear spring is for the height only. And the adjustment you do on that column is not equal to car's rear height. So if you increase the suspension height by 5mm, the car's height may be increased by different number of millimeters.
3) The adjustable shock absorber controls the preload. On their video (I post a link to that video below) they basically put a jack underneath the control arm when the spring had zero preload and then jacked the arm to like 10mm. then they aligned the holes on the shock absorber and the control arm and tightened the shock absorber.
4) I think different cars may require different approach for setting the preload correctly. Another approach is to bolt the shock absorber and then adjust it's height till the length of the spring is decreased by i.e. 10mm. Of course first you need to make sure you know the default length of the spring which should be printed on its soils.
5) They (BC rep) told me the front strut has correct preload set from the factory and that I shouldn't adjust it.
6) My main concern now is the "zero preload" state. What is it? Some say it's when the ring that hold the spring (on the front strut) barely touches the spring. To me the word "barely" means nothing because when they say you need to adjust preload by 10mm then how can you make sure that on both sides the ring "barely" touches the spring? And what happens if on one side you will have more spring compression than on another? Does a single millimeter matter? Also I see videos where people claim that zero preload is when you hand tight the ring (that holds the spring) on the front strut till you can't further tighten it. Obviously different people have different grip and strength, so to me this approach isn't precise.
7) The zero preload on the rear suspension is even trickier because there is no ring that holds the spring. So I think it's better to measure the initial length of the spring and then try to make sure that the adjusted height is i.e. 10mm less. The only problem is because spring sits in the hole in the rear lower arm it's not easy to measure the adjusted spring height. You could measure the distance between control arm surface and the ring above the spring, but can you do it right on each side?
To summarize it I think that installing the coilovers on W211 means you can't identically set the preload of the rear springs and if you start playing with the ride height (assuming the ride height is set equally on left and right components of the coilovers kit at the BC factory) there is still a chance you won't identically set the height on left and right sides.
PS: I wonder how Mercedes techs perform alignment on these cars? What are the adjustable components that they adjust to correct the camber or toe parameters? I haven't inspected my car's suspension yet, but if i.e. Camber King sells rear adjustable camber arms for W211/W219 then does it mean Mercedes doesn't do the rear camber adjustment when they perform the alignment?
Here is the BC video though you can find more similar videos on different YT channels: <!--td {border: 1px solid #cccccc;}br {mso-data-placement:same-cell;}-->
Just fine tuning the vehicle. My 07 cls 63 has airmatiairmatisearching for alignment parameters has been a challenge to say the least.
Using Camber King camber arms also meant I need to add a set of Camber King sawy bar links and a set of 2" f/r lowering links. The sway bar links had to be added as the alignment of the new adjustable camber arms hits the sway bar. So because I am using the Airmatic....once I pushed the sway bar ends up to clear. It messed with the ride height sensor. So much fun...
Just fine tuning the vehicle. My 07 cls 63 has airmatiairmatisearching for alignment parameters has been a challenge to say the least.
Using Camber King camber arms also meant I need to add a set of Camber King sawy bar links and a set of 2" f/r lowering links. The sway bar links had to be added as the alignment of the new adjustable camber arms hits the sway bar. So because I am using the Airmatic....once I pushed the sway bar ends up to clear. It messed with the ride height sensor. So much fun...
Not sure if I understood it.
Anyway once I install the BC coilovers and adjust the ride height to the desired level I'd like to check my alignment and see how bad it is. Also I was told Mercedes uses camber bolts for alignment. I'm curious if such bolts are already installed on my car. I need to check it once its on a lift. Currently I don't have any adjustable arms, rods etc. Idk if I need to use camber bolts.
Using Camber King camber arms also meant I need to add a set of Camber King sawy bar links and a set of 2" f/r lowering links. The sway bar links had to be added as the alignment of the new adjustable camber arms hits the sway bar. So because I am using the Airmatic....once I pushed the sway bar ends up to clear. It messed with the ride height sensor. So much fun...
DO NOT USE THESE CAMBERKING ARMS! They are an absolute fail construction. I've made a post about it and messaged the guy who makes them and VRP, who resell them, but no action was taken from them.
DO NOT USE THESE CAMBERKING ARMS! They are an absolute fail construction. I've made a post about it and messaged the guy who makes them and VRP, who resell them, but no action was taken from them.
Please could you post a link to your thread and tell what brand it is?
DO NOT USE THESE CAMBERKING ARMS! They are an absolute fail construction. I've made a post about it and messaged the guy who makes them and VRP, who resell them, but no action was taken from them.
ARE THERE OTHER OPTIONS? Thanks for sharing? I have KMAC too!
Do point out that K-MAC rear upper Camber Arms are SPECIFICALLY MANUFACTURED FOR EITHER AIRMATIC AND ALSO SEPARATE FOR COIL REAR SUSPENSIONS !
NOT SOFT EXTRUDED ALUMINUM BUT ULTIMATE 4140 GRADE STEEL. Kits also include extra Toe adjustment to compensate for the extra Camber facility.
FIX IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME - THE STRONG ONES - Refuse Substitutes !
Airmatic #502526-1M $595 PAIR incl. Extra Toe adjustment. Coil Susp #502526-2M $595 PAIR incl. Extra Toe adjustment.
NOTE: Also for the W211 manufacture Rear lower control arm inner Camber adjustable bushes (and Extra Toe)
Airmatic #502526K $480 incl. Extra Toe adjustment. Coil Susp #502126-1K $480 incl. Extra Toe adjustment.
RECOMMEND THESE KITS OVER UPPER CONTROL ARMS:
●Easier to install (Fit without need for arm removal)
●Single wrench adjustment - Ultimate FAST / ACCURATE direct on alignment rack UNDER LOAD !
●Unlike difficult to access trial and error upper arm adjustment.
●Up to 2 degrees extra Positive or Negative Camber. More then enough to resolve costly, premature excess edge tire wear issues.
●Retain important clearance “TOP OF TIRE - TO OUTER FENDER CLEARANCE - when wanting to resolve costly premature inner edge tire wear.
●Upper Camber arms reduce this important clearance - therefore only recommend upper arms if wanting “more not less” negative Camber to allow fitment of extra wide profile tires.
AUDI to VOLVO - K-MAC Experience Of Resolving OEM Suspension Shortcomings Since 1964 !
I don't feel like I want to press bushings. I don't have press and at this moment I don't want to buy one. I'd like to swap control arms. Any kits where you have only control arms that control camber and/or toe?
All K-MAC adjuster kits are designed so no special tools required. Plus bush extraction tool included allowing fitment without time consuming arm removal.
All K-MAC adjuster kits are designed so no special tools required. Plus bush extraction tool included allowing fitment without time consuming arm removal.
Do you have any videos related to installation of your kits? I briefly checked the installation manual and it has lots of text and only few pics that doesn't help a lot.
01-21-2024 | 07:38 PM
