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I'll post some pics later but wanted to get this on here. Got into a classic 5 car situation yesterday (all in a line, traffic, sudden slow down) and the last 3 cars had to be towed. I was number 4. Actually, this Corolla cut me off taking up the car length I had and almost immediately had to slow down because the cars in front were slowing. Slammed on the brakes and I don't think I hit the Corolla that hard but the Lincoln MKZ behind me hit me pretty hard, which then pushed me into the Corolla. Shut it off within a few seconds. Fluids dripping from front...but airbags did NOT deploy.
Anyway, already preparing for fun discussion w/ insurance. I understand the first data point they use for value is NADA which for my 04 w/ 142k is apparently around $8,500. Obviously that's a joke. So I went on AutoTrader and pulled all 21 E55s into a spreadsheet and graphed by price and mileage. I'll post that later as well. But what I came up with is that the mean listing price of an E55 with 142k is somewhere in the neighborhood of $18,500 (obviously that means some higher, some lower). Anyone play this game successfully with their insurance company?
A few things.....first, my preference is to just fix the car, especially with the assumption that it will be fixed right and come out better than it was before. But with a value of $8,500 and the damage I am thinking that is not possible. Therefore, I have to argue that the value is higher. They could do the right thing and realize that NADA is just way off and use some other number, but I'm preparing for a battle. I think I'd rather have the car fixed than get a check because I don't really feel like buying another one and sorting it out all over again right now. Also, if I get a check for $18,500 (seems not likely despite my initial market analysis), I'd probably just wait, since I have other cars.
Any tips?
Not sure how much it matters but my 04 is black/black and has a few basic options. Climate seats, rear/side sunshades, keyless go, power trunk, the rear spoiler, TPMS. It does not have higher end options like pano, Distronic, bi-xenon, nav, dynamic seats, or Designo.
Here are the 21 currently listed on Autotrader plotted as mileage vs price. Mine is around 142k so you can see where it lands on the curve.
Does this seem about right at least for actual replacement cost vs mileage? Yes I lumped 03-06 together and no adjustments for options, color, or any stated issues/mods.
List price (asking price) is not accurate, so your research is flawed. You need selling price. I'd just wait until you speak with the adjuster, be polite but firm if needed and ask where they get their numbers from.
Agreed. I just want to be five steps ahead of them so I am ready to have any conversation at any time.
On the list price versus transaction price front do you really think that on average E55's are going for thousands under the dealer's asking price? I mean maybe they are and I am happy to take at least a 10% cut on that and I'm also happy to adjust for the fact that my '04 is on the earlier side but even if I do those things I am nowhere near $11k.
Furthermore insurance is supposed to allow me to take that money and go buy a replacement vehicle minus my deductible and I assume does not mandate that I have to get $5,000 off the price to make that work.
Has anyone had any luck with a BS appraisal showing that there is no way I can replace the car for that? Isn't that the whole point of insurance?
Yes you can get a independent appraiser who will do their own report and present to the insurance company, with my totaled '08 S550, the adjuster cost me $400 but I netted couple thousand dollars more from the insurance company.
I'm well versed in this, having had my 06 totaled last year. my car had 120k miles at the time of the accident, it was very highly optioned. The driver that hit me was at fault, I was given 17.7k for my car. It was low by my opinion, but it shows what market values are.
this largely depends on your locale, but where I live its pretty much like this:
With the trunk floor and rear apron damaged this will surely be totaled...not to mention lack of parts availability. Maybe you'll get lucky and get offered $14k for it.
I had the car towed to the body shop. Today I will go there and get their initial opinion. Then we will engage my insurance (unless they say it's not worth fixing...).
Met with body shop. The next step is to get it taken apart for a proper estimate. He didn't know what the car was worth but I explained my market-based appraisal and we decided for sake of argument, assume $18,500 for the time being. That leaves a repair estimate budget of $13,875 (75%). He was not optimistic that would be adequate given just a visual inspection. So either late this week or next week, I guess they will take it apart and provide a formal estimate then I get to go to battle with insurance over actual value.
Of course there may be an alternate path here. Maybe one or two big ticket items are driving the estimate. Like the exhaust. Maybe there are ways around items like those. Also, maybe I buy the car back (salvage) and they write me an alternate estimate that lets me fix it cheaper - whether that is a good idea or not is another question. Won't know until they take it apart and see everything it needs.
Overall I am not real optimistic given all of the info I have so far. But it will take another week or two for the next update.
Met with body shop. The next step is to get it taken apart for a proper estimate. He didn't know what the car was worth but I explained my market-based appraisal and we decided for sake of argument, assume $18,500 for the time being. That leaves a repair estimate budget of $13,875 (75%). He was not optimistic that would be adequate given just a visual inspection. So either late this week or next week, I guess they will take it apart and provide a formal estimate then I get to go to battle with insurance over actual value.
Of course there may be an alternate path here. Maybe one or two big ticket items are driving the estimate. Like the exhaust. Maybe there are ways around items like those. Also, maybe I buy the car back (salvage) and they write me an alternate estimate that lets me fix it cheaper - whether that is a good idea or not is another question. Won't know until they take it apart and see everything it needs.
Overall I am not real optimistic given all of the info I have so far. But it will take another week or two for the next update.
If you can use parts from the salvage/used market for some of the part replacements you could possibly save enough to keep it in a reasonable budget. Even more so it you can do some or much of the part swap outs yourself. The used parts market is deep with W211s. From the pics it does not look to me that you have any real structural damage (frame rails and such) so most of the work will be is removing damaged stuff and installing replacement stuff. Paint work then becomes one of the bigger costs.
If the insurance comapny will agree with your valuation then they may well write the damage cost check to you. This means they aren't going to be holding the body shop accountable and that allows the body shop to have more flexiblity dealing with you. Then if you end up doing much/most of the work and you don't end up with a salvage branded title then you have more flexibility and a better financial position with the whole issue.
I don't see how I avoid a salvage title. In my state it looks like I could apply for a reconstructed title but I assume it will always be branded.
Salvage will play in when the insurance company determines the car is not repairable within a certain percentage of the underlying value of the car. So, if you can convince them the value is X and the 'cost' of repair will not exceed Y (the magic percentage) then there should not be a salvage title. That's where you need to control this process and work with the body shop to understand the limitations on what they write for the repair cost. Someone is going to end up with this car and it will be repaired and on the road again. The repair will be done with used and aftermarket new parts and a re-spray of the bumpers and other body panels. If you want to be that ultimate owner you have to understand the game and then play it.
Salvage will play in when the insurance company determines the car is not repairable within a certain percentage of the underlying value of the car. So, if you can convince them the value is X and the 'cost' of repair will not exceed Y (the magic percentage) then there should not be a salvage title. That's where you need to control this process and work with the body shop to understand the limitations on what they write for the repair cost.
Oh I agree. So here are some possible courses of action, that are dependent upon things OUT of my control as well as certain things IN my control:
1) Estimate exceeds 75% of appraised value. Car is declared total loss.
1b) I can take check or buy car back. Whether I buy car back or not, it would have a salvage title for next owner. If I am the next owner, I could attempt to negotiate repairs for less than previously estimated based on various trade offs that I may have available (like more used parts). It would still have a salvage title at this point. But the good news is, the body shop will have already dismantled the car and will know what it absolutely needs, what is optional and what is not necessary (and this varies based on who is paying, obviously). They could also complete certain repairs and release the car to me to complete the additional repairs (i.e. exhaust).
2) Estimate is lower than 75% of appraised value. Car is repaired via insurance and title remains clean.
The good news is, provided the goal is to fix the car one way or the other, the body shop and I have aligned goals. I assume they want the business, and their preference is for insurance to pay the biggest bill. But if that bill is too big, they may also accept a lesser job (even if less profitable). One thing is for sure, before anyone asks, I am not willing to part the car out in my driveway.
I don't see how I avoid a salvage title. In my state it looks like I could apply for a reconstructed title but I assume it will always be branded.
What is your body shop telling you about wait/queue time to get into their shop to start repairs? Not time for the estimate, but rather time to start repairing after all parties have agreed on costs.
They didn't give me that info and I didn't ask for it. I suspect something on the order of 2 months is probably realistic for that but no clue at this time.
Oh I agree. So here are some possible courses of action, that are dependent upon things OUT of my control as well as certain things IN my control:
1) Estimate exceeds 75% of appraised value. Car is declared total loss.
1b) I can take check or buy car back. Whether I buy car back or not, it would have a salvage title for next owner. If I am the next owner, I could attempt to negotiate repairs for less than previously estimated based on various trade offs that I may have available (like more used parts). It would still have a salvage title at this point. But the good news is, the body shop will have already dismantled the car and will know what it absolutely needs, what is optional and what is not necessary (and this varies based on who is paying, obviously). They could also complete certain repairs and release the car to me to complete the additional repairs (i.e. exhaust).
2) Estimate is lower than 75% of appraised value. Car is repaired via insurance and title remains clean.
The good news is, provided the goal is to fix the car one way or the other, the body shop and I have aligned goals. I assume they want the business, and their preference is for insurance to pay the biggest bill. But if that bill is too big, they may also accept a lesser job (even if less profitable). One thing is for sure, before anyone asks, I am not willing to part the car out in my driveway.
Yes, I agree and you are correct that the magic is convincing them your value is correct and the repiar is not greater than 75% of that amount. Get the repair number and then find a way to support the value that it needs to be.
Ugh. Received a call from insurance. They want to tow the car to their total loss facility but I explained that's not happening; it's at a body shop. So they are going to send an adjuster.
After I hung up with them, I called the body shop. Had a disappointing conversation with them. According to this body shop receptionist, most likely I am looking at NADA or KBB for values. She suggested I contact JD Power (owner of NADA) to inquire why the value is like....half of what it should be. Once the adjuster looks at the car (and the body shop will be part of this process I guess), they will prepare the estimate and send that back to the insurance company. At that point I am certain they'll tell me my car is totaled. If I am unsatisfied with the appraisal, I guess I can contact the RI Dept of Business Regulation and file some kind of complaint.
I guess I should also go read the fine print in my insurance disclaimer to see how screwed I really am here. I just can't accept that every driver of all mid-2000s performance iron are going to lose 40-50% of the value of their car if it gets into an accident. Or, maybe Progressive will....make an exception? Yeah like insurance companies make exceptions.
To be honest it never occurred to me to even ask about agreed value. But I guarantee there are tens of thousands of owners of other vehicles who would potentially be in the same boat as me. Look up any 2000s noteworthy performance vehicle and compare to what it would cost in the market to replace.
I just sold a 170k mile 05 E55 with some decent mods for $10k. Unfortunately I don’t think you’re going to get anywhere close to $18k with the mileage you have.
It doesn't matter what you sold yours for. What matters is dealer retail value. And 143k isn't the same thing as 170k.
I have continued refining my analysis with AutoTrader, Cars.com and Edmunds listings. I am also removing outliers to improve my curve fit. Current projection is $17,500 or so. This is uaing about 24 nationwide dealer retail listings, accounting for mileage only.
08-25-2022, 07:49 AM
