Not my car
10-10-2022, 10:02 AM
#1
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Not my car
I was at Benz Elite Automotive recently, and Eddie had a M156 motor pulled out of a C63, as the harmonic balancer failed and screwed into the engine cover.
And this motor also had upper/lower oil pan leaks and other issues hence the heads needed to be pulled as well. So, we got into a debate about which engine is better the M113K or the M156.
Eddie mentioned that he has never had to do any of this to his M113K. I personally love the M156, but Eddie does have a point.
And this motor also had upper/lower oil pan leaks and other issues hence the heads needed to be pulled as well. So, we got into a debate about which engine is better the M113K or the M156.
Eddie mentioned that he has never had to do any of this to his M113K. I personally love the M156, but Eddie does have a point.
10-10-2022, 12:25 PM
#2
Does Eddie know about the differences between the years for the motors though? The preface lift C63 motors had those issues - including the head bolts snapping, specifically, the 08-11 cars. 12-14 (and some in early 15) all had those culprits resolved. I owned a 2014 C63 for 4 years and it is the one and only car I'd consider selling the E55 for as a daily driver - in fact, I sold my second E55 for the 14 C63. The M156 from the latter years is a bulletproof motor just like the M113K and was still a pinnacle time for AMG engineering.
Last edited by ArmoE55; 10-10-2022 at 12:28 PM.
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10-10-2022, 04:54 PM
#4
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Does Eddie know about the differences between the years for the motors though? The preface lift C63 motors had those issues - including the head bolts snapping, specifically, the 08-11 cars. 12-14 (and some in early 15) all had those culprits resolved. I owned a 2014 C63 for 4 years and it is the one and only car I'd consider selling the E55 for as a daily driver - in fact, I sold my second E55 for the 14 C63. The M156 from the latter years is a bulletproof motor just like the M113K and was still a pinnacle time for AMG engineering.
But Eddie's point was that he's opened up more M156 engines, including mine then he has ever opened up a M113K. More to his point the M113K is known to be a bullet proof engine. I personally love the M156. Both engines have their pros and cons.
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Fountain35 (10-10-2022)
10-10-2022, 04:57 PM
#5
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10-10-2022, 05:47 PM
#6
i bet it'll go +300k miles once its refreshed if the right parts are used.
10-10-2022, 05:55 PM
#7
I don't know if Eddie knows the particulars of the M156 by model year. But both Eddie and Emile are both Mercedes trained and certified mechanics. They both worked at MB or Arlington for years, before they opened their own shop back in 2008.
But Eddie's point was that he's opened up more M156 engines, including mine then he has ever opened up a M113K. More to his point the M113K is known to be a bullet proof engine. I personally love the M156. Both engines have their pros and cons.
But Eddie's point was that he's opened up more M156 engines, including mine then he has ever opened up a M113K. More to his point the M113K is known to be a bullet proof engine. I personally love the M156. Both engines have their pros and cons.
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10-10-2022, 07:23 PM
#8
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There might be better shops out there, but I’ve been going to Benz Elite Automotive for years. And I’m completely satisfied with their work.
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10-10-2022, 09:00 PM
#10
10-10-2022, 10:38 PM
#11
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The M156 is definitely less reliable and higher maintenance than the M113K…but it’s more fun IMO. That said I like engines that rev high and sound great. The M113k has great torque and is easily modded which appeals to others.
N
N
10-11-2022, 07:46 AM
#12
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Out of all the years, that I have gone to Benz Elite Automotive for service, I've only seen a few M113K actually getting worked on, mainly supercharger bearing pulley and upgrading the heat exchanger or pump.
Put, I've seen a lot of M156 in their shop including mine. So, that tells me that the M113K was and is a more reliable engine.
To put this into perspective, the M156 engine was the first ever designed and built by AMG, and over the years their engines have gotten better. But regardless, I still love the M156 with its flaws.
Put, I've seen a lot of M156 in their shop including mine. So, that tells me that the M113K was and is a more reliable engine.
To put this into perspective, the M156 engine was the first ever designed and built by AMG, and over the years their engines have gotten better. But regardless, I still love the M156 with its flaws.
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Fountain35 (11-01-2022)
10-11-2022, 07:01 PM
#13
That's because you own a 2010, a pre-facelift car. How many have you seen there that are 12+ M156 cars? The M156 is reliable motor - anybody that says otherwise does not know what they're talking about or has owned one of the early year specimens. Anybody that owns or has owned an M156 will tell you the same. I owned my 14 for over 4 years - zero issues. Quite frankly, the gremlins in the M113K pop up far more than anything I had to deal with with my 14 C63.
Anyway, to each their own - glad you're happy with Benz Elite.
Anyway, to each their own - glad you're happy with Benz Elite.
10-12-2022, 05:51 AM
#15
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10-12-2022, 06:03 AM
#16
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That's because you own a 2010, a pre-facelift car. How many have you seen there that are 12+ M156 cars? The M156 is reliable motor - anybody that says otherwise does not know what they're talking about or has owned one of the early year specimens. Anybody that owns or has owned an M156 will tell you the same. I owned my 14 for over 4 years - zero issues. Quite frankly, the gremlins in the M113K pop up far more than anything I had to deal with with my 14 C63.
Anyway, to each their own - glad you're happy with Benz Elite.
Anyway, to each their own - glad you're happy with Benz Elite.
Occasionally, if I'm in the area, I will swing past to see what their working on, or to talk to Emile or Eddie about something as we share similar interests.
10-12-2022, 12:38 PM
#17
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'99 and '05 E55 AMG
IIRC, when perusing the parts catalog, the M156 engine showed six iterations of the upper/lower oil pans. So...it took the engineers awhile to work the bugs out of the engine but it is to their credit they continued to improve on the original design. I agree it is an engine that has gotten better over the years.
It certainly is better than the first model year Ford Aerostar van that I owned many years ago...that van dropped the harmonic balancer off the front of the engine on a motorway in England. The British Ford dealer nearby sent out a tow truck to bring the van in; when the two fellows hooked up to the front of the van and began hoisting, the front end of the tow truck lifted off of the ground. Hilarity ensued....
It certainly is better than the first model year Ford Aerostar van that I owned many years ago...that van dropped the harmonic balancer off the front of the engine on a motorway in England. The British Ford dealer nearby sent out a tow truck to bring the van in; when the two fellows hooked up to the front of the van and began hoisting, the front end of the tow truck lifted off of the ground. Hilarity ensued....
10-13-2022, 06:11 PM
#19
M113k owners are just sour there was a new baby brother that was born. The M156 with all of its part revisions is a solid motor. The only part that didn't see revision is the cam adjusters, but these also are also an issue on other engines that have camshaft phasers with different design. Toyota seems to be the most reliable but also see failures.
10-13-2022, 07:34 PM
#20
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I love my M156, but the bottom line is this. Once, all the issues are sorted, this is a great engine.
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10-14-2022, 08:50 AM
#21
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CLS63 AMG, E92 M3
I've had a 08 C63 with low miles for awhile and my DD is a 07 CLS63 with 140k miles, just did headbolts/lifters and basic maintenance, can see it going another 140k+ easily.
Love the M156 just do the headbolts/lifters and check your cams and adjusters, I wonder what caused the harmonic balancer to fail on this c63?
Love the M156 just do the headbolts/lifters and check your cams and adjusters, I wonder what caused the harmonic balancer to fail on this c63?
10-14-2022, 12:23 PM
#22
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I think that this was caused by some major oil leaks. The rubber in the harmonic balancer either deteriorated or came apart, which caused the balancer to rub against the engine timing cover.
The owner neglected this for quite sometime, as you can see how the balancer screwed into the cover causing more leaks. This had to make a lot of noise.
The owner neglected this for quite sometime, as you can see how the balancer screwed into the cover causing more leaks. This had to make a lot of noise.
Last edited by Yuille36; 10-14-2022 at 12:25 PM.
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10-14-2022, 12:35 PM
#23
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CLS63 AMG, E92 M3
I think that this was caused by some major oil leaks. The rubber in the harmonic balancer either deteriorated or came apart, which caused the balancer to rub against the engine timing cover.
The owner neglected this for quite sometime, as you can see how the balancer screwed into the cover causing more leaks. This had to make a lot of noise.
The owner neglected this for quite sometime, as you can see how the balancer screwed into the cover causing more leaks. This had to make a lot of noise.
Ah that makes sense, that's a common issue on some BMW's I've owned as well. I should inspect my balancer as well!
10-14-2022, 03:41 PM
#24
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To clear up some misinformation here, an M156 from any year of production can be made reliable.
Onto the M113K, there have been multiple documented failures of this engine. Anecdotal evidence from a single shop doesn't change this.
That said, both:
-are exceptional engines with different characteristics / tradeoffs.
-are also high-performance engines that can experience catastrophic issues when paired with knuckleheads for owners who don't know how to maintain / improve them.
Onto the M113K, there have been multiple documented failures of this engine. Anecdotal evidence from a single shop doesn't change this.
That said, both:
-are exceptional engines with different characteristics / tradeoffs.
-are also high-performance engines that can experience catastrophic issues when paired with knuckleheads for owners who don't know how to maintain / improve them.
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Drifter2090 (10-15-2022)
10-15-2022, 07:17 AM
#25
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To clear up some misinformation here, an M156 from any year of production can be made reliable.
Onto the M113K, there have been multiple documented failures of this engine. Anecdotal evidence from a single shop doesn't change this.
That said, both:
-are exceptional engines with different characteristics / tradeoffs.
-are also high-performance engines that can experience catastrophic issues when paired with knuckleheads for owners who don't know how to maintain / improve them.
Onto the M113K, there have been multiple documented failures of this engine. Anecdotal evidence from a single shop doesn't change this.
That said, both:
-are exceptional engines with different characteristics / tradeoffs.
-are also high-performance engines that can experience catastrophic issues when paired with knuckleheads for owners who don't know how to maintain / improve them.
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HLG600 (10-16-2022)
