E500 Faster Than E55??
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From: Delaware
2007 GL450, 2005 E55(Sold), 2002 C32 (Sold)
Maybe it is due to the cool weather......but I have no problem chirping the first to second shift with the tranny in S and the suspension in Sport 2.....The firmer Sport 2 may have something to due with it......
As to losing traction in first....even with the ESP engaged, it does a fair amount of slipping....it just doesn't cause the tires to scream....
Maybe those K&Ns are worth the $$ afterall
As to losing traction in first....even with the ESP engaged, it does a fair amount of slipping....it just doesn't cause the tires to scream....
Maybe those K&Ns are worth the $$ afterall
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Originally Posted by BlackC230Coupe
I dont undertsand how? the E500 even with the 7 speed does not do a 0-60 time like a C32 or a C55. I cant see or understand how the E500 is ahead?
Btw, i thought u had a C32? did u get an E500? or u have both?
Btw, i thought u had a C32? did u get an E500? or u have both?
Sold the C32 a while back. Current cars are a C230k (05), E500, E55, and SL55.
An associate has a track prepped C32... ran against that car in a straight line...
Last edited by CynCarvin32; Nov 9, 2004 at 04:02 AM.
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2004 E500 / 2001 C240
Originally Posted by BlackC230Coupe
I dont undertsand how? the E500 even with the 7 speed does not do a 0-60 time like a C32 or a C55. I cant see or understand how the E500 is ahead?
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Originally Posted by deedee545i
I don't understand his words as well.... I think he's kind overstating E500...I think E500 is quite a normal car...not slow but definitely not fast....
To those who think the C32 was running slow... I have put down lap times at willow springs in that C32 which equal or beat many 996 Twin Turbos so the car makes the power the factory claims. But the cars chassis is far from stock (stock motor though).
C32 vs. E500 (7g)
1) V8 vs. V6k = low end grunt vs. a slight lag (I owned a c32 for 2 years so I know how it reacts to inputs). C32 had R-Comp tires that were warm while the E500 had bald Conti Cr*p Sport Tires. Both full esp off launch - done correctly.
2) Lower first second and thrid gears by far = E500 rips through gears while the C32 uses power to pull through the rev band.
3) The cars have the same rear end ratio so the gearing is where the E500 wins off the line.
4) after third the E500 falls off but not quite as one would expect. But it does give up the lead it gained.
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2004 SL55 AMG
Very similar line of thought with a 1988 Ford Thunderbird V-6 (Dad bought new in '88)that only had 120HP MAX, don't recall TQ but it wasn't much more! It was n't quick yet beat many vehicles (run-of-the-mill, some 160HP) up to 30MPH on gearing alone. It opened up many people's eyes. Anyways, I haven't compared gearing on the E500 vs. C32 but it's safe to say that TQ and gearing make the difference on the low RPMs and those 0-20MPH, 0-30MPH times not so much 0-60MPH.
I believe that the much closer gearing on the 7-speed E500 combined with similar torque down low could make it a fun race against a C32 even for a very short sprint up to say, 30MPH.
I believe that the much closer gearing on the 7-speed E500 combined with similar torque down low could make it a fun race against a C32 even for a very short sprint up to say, 30MPH.
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Originally Posted by RU_MATRX
Very similar line of thought with a 1988 Ford Thunderbird V-6 (Dad bought new in '88)that only had 120HP MAX, don't recall TQ but it wasn't much more! It was n't quick yet beat many vehicles (run-of-the-mill, some 160HP) up to 30MPH on gearing alone. It opened up many people's eyes. Anyways, I haven't compared gearing on the E500 vs. C32 but it's safe to say that TQ and gearing make the difference on the low RPMs and those 0-20MPH, 0-30MPH times not so much 0-60MPH.
I believe that the much closer gearing on the 7-speed E500 combined with similar torque down low could make it a fun race against a C32 even for a very short sprint up to say, 30MPH.
I believe that the much closer gearing on the 7-speed E500 combined with similar torque down low could make it a fun race against a C32 even for a very short sprint up to say, 30MPH.
You are correct in what you say but these cars are close in power figures and tq figures.
I think the C32 is a 5.2 sec car and the 7g E500 (mine atleast) feels like a 5.5 sec car. I ran the E500 against my old S55 (non-kompressor) and the E500 would pull a ever so slight fender on the S55. The S55 was a 5.4 sec car so the E500 feels darn quick.
In a 1/4 mile run... a .3 - .4 sec differnece is oh about half a car length so we are not talking about a big difference here.
The E500 did not start to fall off until the far side of 80 so its not really a 0-30 race. The E500 is ripping into third as the C32 is still at 4.5k in second so the E500 is staying closer to peak power for a longer period of time.
But yes the C32 is faster but for a stock 4 door family hauler the E500 is a great car.
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From: Texas
2004 E55
Originally Posted by CynCarvin32
In a 1/4 mile run... a .3 - .4 sec differnece is oh about half a car length so we are not talking about a big difference here.
Um, half a car length? I don't think so. In the 1/4 mile, you're crossing the finish line at at least 100 mph or better........At 100 mph, the car is moving at 146 feet per second, or 14.6 feet per tenth of a second (which is about 1 car length), so a .3 to .4 second difference at 100 mph is about 3 to 4 car lengths.
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05 E55, 03 Z4 3.0
Originally Posted by CynCarvin32
You are correct in what you say but these cars are close in power figures and tq figures.
I think the C32 is a 5.2 sec car and the 7g E500 (mine atleast) feels like a 5.5 sec car. I ran the E500 against my old S55 (non-kompressor) and the E500 would pull a ever so slight fender on the S55. The S55 was a 5.4 sec car so the E500 feels darn quick.
In a 1/4 mile run... a .3 - .4 sec differnece is oh about half a car length so we are not talking about a big difference here.
The E500 did not start to fall off until the far side of 80 so its not really a 0-30 race. The E500 is ripping into third as the C32 is still at 4.5k in second so the E500 is staying closer to peak power for a longer period of time.
But yes the C32 is faster but for a stock 4 door family hauler the E500 is
a great car.
I think the C32 is a 5.2 sec car and the 7g E500 (mine atleast) feels like a 5.5 sec car. I ran the E500 against my old S55 (non-kompressor) and the E500 would pull a ever so slight fender on the S55. The S55 was a 5.4 sec car so the E500 feels darn quick.
In a 1/4 mile run... a .3 - .4 sec differnece is oh about half a car length so we are not talking about a big difference here.
The E500 did not start to fall off until the far side of 80 so its not really a 0-30 race. The E500 is ripping into third as the C32 is still at 4.5k in second so the E500 is staying closer to peak power for a longer period of time.
But yes the C32 is faster but for a stock 4 door family hauler the E500 is
a great car.
respectable.....
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2004 E500 / 2001 C240
Originally Posted by DRCrowder
the best times I have seen for an E500 are 5.8 0-60 (seen as high as 6.6), 14.1 1/4 with a et @ 100.5
respectable.....
respectable.....
I would love to know track times for my car.. (Thanks for the info).
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no us car mag has tested an E500 with the 7g trans so there are no times to reflect upon. MB seems to think it cuts a second off the 50-120kph time so lets just go from there. It is worth a solid .3 in the 1/4 mile I bet.... I have seen a 13.9 E500 1/4 time so that makes it a 13.6 car and well a C32 is oh 13.2 on a very good day. Not a big difference really.....
This whole thing about how far .5 a second is in a drag race is pointless. A 6 second car can keep up with a 5 second car. It just falls back as time goes on. I raced countless 330ci's in my c32 and the race was far to close to act as if the C32 was gods gift to humanity. It won sure... but not by what the numbers would suggest. The same goes for the E500 and the C32.... the E500 is a bit slower but .2-.3 sec difference in 0-60 time or 1/4 mile times is nothing. At a road course event that minimal speed gap is nothing... just drive better than the next guy!
This whole thing about how far .5 a second is in a drag race is pointless. A 6 second car can keep up with a 5 second car. It just falls back as time goes on. I raced countless 330ci's in my c32 and the race was far to close to act as if the C32 was gods gift to humanity. It won sure... but not by what the numbers would suggest. The same goes for the E500 and the C32.... the E500 is a bit slower but .2-.3 sec difference in 0-60 time or 1/4 mile times is nothing. At a road course event that minimal speed gap is nothing... just drive better than the next guy!
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Originally Posted by CynCarvin32
but .2-.3 sec difference in 0-60 time or 1/4 mile times is nothing.
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Originally Posted by CynCarvin32
Oh well I stopped trying to explain my self to people around here. Too many nay Sayers to bother. I can only say what is fact. If people can’t take it... oh well...does not do anything for me…. But ill try again. If it were something normal I would not have posted.
To those who think the C32 was running slow... I have put down lap times at willow springs in that C32 which equal or beat many 996 Twin Turbos so the car makes the power the factory claims. But the cars chassis is far from stock (stock motor though).
C32 vs. E500 (7g)
1) V8 vs. V6k = low end grunt vs. a slight lag (I owned a c32 for 2 years so I know how it reacts to inputs). C32 had R-Comp tires that were warm while the E500 had bald Conti Cr*p Sport Tires. Both full esp off launch - done correctly.
2) Lower first second and thrid gears by far = E500 rips through gears while the C32 uses power to pull through the rev band.
3) The cars have the same rear end ratio so the gearing is where the E500 wins off the line.
4) after third the E500 falls off but not quite as one would expect. But it does give up the lead it gained.
To those who think the C32 was running slow... I have put down lap times at willow springs in that C32 which equal or beat many 996 Twin Turbos so the car makes the power the factory claims. But the cars chassis is far from stock (stock motor though).
C32 vs. E500 (7g)
1) V8 vs. V6k = low end grunt vs. a slight lag (I owned a c32 for 2 years so I know how it reacts to inputs). C32 had R-Comp tires that were warm while the E500 had bald Conti Cr*p Sport Tires. Both full esp off launch - done correctly.
2) Lower first second and thrid gears by far = E500 rips through gears while the C32 uses power to pull through the rev band.
3) The cars have the same rear end ratio so the gearing is where the E500 wins off the line.
4) after third the E500 falls off but not quite as one would expect. But it does give up the lead it gained.
Last edited by deedee545i; Nov 10, 2004 at 05:06 AM.
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Originally Posted by deedee545i
How about 545i VS 7G E500..who should be faster using your analysis?? I have no idea about auto technology so after reading your words I still don't understand why a 7G E500 could keep up with C32 up to 80mph.....But 545i is indeed slower than C32 and much slower than the mighty E55...so If 7G E500 is even slower than a 545i, it should not stand any chance aginst both C32 and E55....
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Originally Posted by deedee545i
How about 545i VS 7G E500..who should be faster using your analysis?? I have no idea about auto technology so after reading your words I still don't understand why a 7G E500 could keep up with C32 up to 80mph.....But 545i is indeed slower than C32 and much slower than the mighty E55...so If 7G E500 is even slower than a 545i, it should not stand any chance aginst both C32 and E55....
C32 is a 5.2 sec car... what else can one say
P.S. There is no chance my E500 will keep up with my E55... no one said that.
Last edited by CynCarvin32; Nov 10, 2004 at 03:52 PM.
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Originally Posted by reggid
I don't see how putting a 7 speed transmission would really make it go that much better. Its not as though they have a high revving peaky engine. I don't know what the gear ratios are but with the M5 the gear ratios are different mainly becaue of the extra revs (not the fact that there are 7 speeds), so the actual limit speed in each gear up to 120mph is more or less the same as the outgoing one. So you could have a 6 speed in the M5 and it would perform the same during lowspeeds but just use more fuel cruising on the highway in top gear. I would assume that if you took off a tenth or two from the 0-60mph from the non 7G e500 that be the most to expect.
Go drive a 03 and 04 E500 and you come back and say both are the same.
Next thing you will tell me a 2.82 diff will not slow the E500 down for its only about mpg at speed. There is a reason why the E500 uses a 3.07 and well spaced gears... mb wants it to move! Great motor with terrible gearing = one slow car. Weak motor with great gearing = faster than you might think.
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From: Collegeville, PA
05 E55, 03 Z4 3.0
Originally Posted by CynCarvin32
both the 545i and the E500 are mid 5 sec cars... what exactly is the point of your post?
C32 is a 5.2 sec car... what else can one say
P.S. There is no chance my E500 will keep up with my E55... no one said that.
C32 is a 5.2 sec car... what else can one say
P.S. There is no chance my E500 will keep up with my E55... no one said that.
I think you are being a tad optimistic about the car, don't you?
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2004 SL55 AMG
Originally Posted by CynCarvin32
In a 1/4 mile run... a .3 - .4 sec differnece is oh about half a car length so we are not talking about a big difference here.
0.3-0.4 secs is really a big difference in the quarter-mile. Typically, every 0.2 secs in the 0-60MPH is one full car-length, if I recall properly. In the quarter mile that could mean a 3-4 car-length advantage minimum (1 car-length for every 0.1 secs). The difference is much greater at higher speeds say in the quarter mile due to higher MPH attained and quarter mile times at more than twice the times for 0-60MPH runs (e.g. 5.8 vs. 14.7 secs). Treynor can give specific examples based on the S/SL classes as well as others that actually take their MBs to the drag strip.
Also, the 7G E500 isn't quite a mid 5 sec 0-60MPH vehicle to be honest. It's slightly quicker than the 5 speed which has been rated anywhere from 5.8 secs to 6.1 secs 0-60MPH. I imagine that the 7G-tronic can hit a best of 5.7 if you really work it so it's close to mid 5s.
Last edited by RU_MATRX; Nov 10, 2004 at 07:39 PM.
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Originally Posted by CynCarvin32
Why is a 5 speed car slower than a 6 speed? Because the gap between gears is larger in a 5 speed and the motor falls out of its power band when it shifts. If the gear is shorter it does not fall off and the car keeps pulling like a train.
If you had a constant torque motor the 6 speed would still be quicker than the 5 speed because of the gear ratio (according to you they should be as quick as each other becasue they are both driving in their torque band which in the case of my example is constant across the rev range). A car accelerates according to its torque curve so you want it to shift so you are around the torque peak in the next gear.
Originally Posted by CynCarvin32
You are so out in left field bud... this is logic plain and simple. Close gearing makes the car pull more quickly for a given power output.
Back to the 7G
final, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
2.83, 3.60, 2.19, 1.41, 1.00, 0.83...............................5sp
3.06, 4.38, 2.86, 1.92, 1.37, 1.00, 0.83, 0.73..............7sp
the 7G seems to have really low gear ratios so it should be more spirited to drive across all speeds. Does anyone know what the in gear speeds are (ie speeds at full rpm in each gear for the 5 speed or 7speed) i assume the engine and tyres are the same?
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Originally Posted by RU_MATRX
CynCarvin32:
0.3-0.4 secs is really a big difference in the quarter-mile. Typically, every 0.2 secs in the 0-60MPH is one full car-length, if I recall properly. In the quarter mile that could mean a 3-4 car-length advantage minimum (1 car-length for every 0.1 secs). The difference is much greater at higher speeds say in the quarter mile due to higher MPH attained and quarter mile times at more than twice the times for 0-60MPH runs (e.g. 5.8 vs. 14.7 secs). Treynor can give specific examples based on the S/SL classes as well as others that actually take their MBs to the drag strip.
Also, the 7G E500 isn't quite a mid 5 sec 0-60MPH vehicle to be honest. It's slightly quicker than the 5 speed which has been rated anywhere from 5.8 secs to 6.1 secs 0-60MPH. I imagine that the 7G-tronic can hit a best of 5.7 if you really work it so it's close to mid 5s.
0.3-0.4 secs is really a big difference in the quarter-mile. Typically, every 0.2 secs in the 0-60MPH is one full car-length, if I recall properly. In the quarter mile that could mean a 3-4 car-length advantage minimum (1 car-length for every 0.1 secs). The difference is much greater at higher speeds say in the quarter mile due to higher MPH attained and quarter mile times at more than twice the times for 0-60MPH runs (e.g. 5.8 vs. 14.7 secs). Treynor can give specific examples based on the S/SL classes as well as others that actually take their MBs to the drag strip.
Also, the 7G E500 isn't quite a mid 5 sec 0-60MPH vehicle to be honest. It's slightly quicker than the 5 speed which has been rated anywhere from 5.8 secs to 6.1 secs 0-60MPH. I imagine that the 7G-tronic can hit a best of 5.7 if you really work it so it's close to mid 5s.
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Originally Posted by reggid
its not so much falling out of the power band but the torque multiplication to the wheels.
If you had a constant torque motor the 6 speed would still be quicker than the 5 speed because of the gear ratio (according to you they should be as quick as each other becasue they are both driving in their torque band which in the case of my example is constant across the rev range). A car accelerates according to its torque curve so you want it to shift so you are around the torque peak in the next gear.
obviously if you talk so generally, but thats only if the gears are spaced that way!! I was pointing out that the M5's gears aren't, with the 5th, 6th and 7th gear being noticeably shorter but 1st through 4th is not that short, and so the main advantage will only show up at >120MPH!
Back to the 7G
final, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
2.83, 3.60, 2.19, 1.41, 1.00, 0.83...............................5sp
3.06, 4.38, 2.86, 1.92, 1.37, 1.00, 0.83, 0.73..............7sp
the 7G seems to have really low gear ratios so it should be more spirited to drive across all speeds. Does anyone know what the in gear speeds are (ie speeds at full rpm in each gear for the 5 speed or 7speed) i assume the engine and tyres are the same?
If you had a constant torque motor the 6 speed would still be quicker than the 5 speed because of the gear ratio (according to you they should be as quick as each other becasue they are both driving in their torque band which in the case of my example is constant across the rev range). A car accelerates according to its torque curve so you want it to shift so you are around the torque peak in the next gear.
obviously if you talk so generally, but thats only if the gears are spaced that way!! I was pointing out that the M5's gears aren't, with the 5th, 6th and 7th gear being noticeably shorter but 1st through 4th is not that short, and so the main advantage will only show up at >120MPH!
Back to the 7G
final, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
2.83, 3.60, 2.19, 1.41, 1.00, 0.83...............................5sp
3.06, 4.38, 2.86, 1.92, 1.37, 1.00, 0.83, 0.73..............7sp
the 7G seems to have really low gear ratios so it should be more spirited to drive across all speeds. Does anyone know what the in gear speeds are (ie speeds at full rpm in each gear for the 5 speed or 7speed) i assume the engine and tyres are the same?
They (factory) brag of a 2 second advantage over the 5 speed in many passing events.
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Originally Posted by DRCrowder
mid 5 sec car??? I smoke them in a mid 5 sec car (z4 3.0). my buddy has a 2005 and it gets owned off the line, from a roll, and at higher speeds.
I think you are being a tad optimistic about the car, don't you?
I think you are being a tad optimistic about the car, don't you?
ive left every Z4 ive seen in the dust...stick, auto SMG... last Z4 i saw at the willow was a slug. The time before that the kompressor Z4 (modded) was just as slow.
Last time a 996 auto (C2) taunted me on the freeway he did not get very far. He won but this family sedan is a good car.
Last edited by CynCarvin32; Nov 10, 2004 at 08:40 PM.
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05 E55, 03 Z4 3.0
Originally Posted by CynCarvin32
ive left every Z4 ive seen in the dust...stick, auto SMG... last Z4 i saw at the willow was a slug. The time before that the kompressor Z4 (modded) was just as slow.
Last time a 996 auto (C2) taunted me on the freeway he did not get very far. He won but this family sedan is a good car.
Last time a 996 auto (C2) taunted me on the freeway he did not get very far. He won but this family sedan is a good car.
Ok, you win. You’re right I'm lying. I don't have a friend, in Boston, that I just spent 3 days with racing around on the mass pike. I didn't pull on him (smoke was an exaggeration).
As a matter of fact, you've proven your point. The E500 is a sleeper that owns all. I just cancelled my order for my E55 to get one.
Thank you for saving me from an making unwise investment in my E55 (and being humiliated by an E500, because remember, they own all).
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Originally Posted by DRCrowder
Ok, you win. You’re right I'm lying. I don't have a friend, in Boston, that I just spent 3 days with racing around on the mass pike. I didn't pull on him (smoke was an exaggeration).
As a matter of fact, you've proven your point. The E500 is a sleeper that owns all. I just cancelled my order for my E55 to get one.
Thank you for saving me from an making unwise investment in my E55 (and being humiliated by an E500, because remember, they own all).
As a matter of fact, you've proven your point. The E500 is a sleeper that owns all. I just cancelled my order for my E55 to get one.
Thank you for saving me from an making unwise investment in my E55 (and being humiliated by an E500, because remember, they own all).
Never once said an E500 was faster than a E55.....302 vs 469.... no gearing can fix that....
Last edited by CynCarvin32; Nov 10, 2004 at 09:40 PM.
