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BBirdwell thank you. I'm going to try several things tonight;
-Check the incoming N93 for CAN Signal
-Check the N93 ground
-Run a test circuit from the X30/5 to the Central Gateway bypassing wiring (I have spare connectors)
-Swap CAN C box (I have a spare)
-Check the incoming CAN signals to the Central Gateway
When testing ground conections run your test cable straight back to the battery negative post to eliminate any possible bad body contact points.
Something else to check is in the Model 211 portion of the attached tech bulletin. Of all things it is a fuse in the front SAM. Fuse #59, if it has a 15-amp fuse, should be fitted with a 20-amp fuse.
Worth a look.
No progress was made last night, I changed the fuse and tested CAN signal at the Central Gateway. I'm getting no signals to the central gateway. I've got the car all ripped apart and I'm creating new problems. My current plan is to put everything back together and get back to the original faults.
Knowing what I know now about the CAN network I'm going to start over with trouble shooting.
I’ve got everything back together, and I’m still not able to start the car.
Basically everything on the CAN C (x30/5) network has faults for CAN communication.
The only time communication is restored is when I unplug the Central Gateway from CAN C. To expand on that a little bit further if I cut the ground to the CAN bus communication is good but the car will still not crank.
I did notice when scanning the ECU that the Immobilizer is activated under Drive Authorization see pic below. is this correct?
Guys any ideas on if the screen in the previous post is correct on the ECU?
Have you queried with the scan tool in the Drive Authorization area about what is giving a Yes and a No for the Immobilizer? Show the results of that query. My gut tells me the issue with the Central Gateway is going to play into this.
I could not resolve the issue and have sold the car. The guy that bought it said he would have is running in hrs. I'll post the results when he gets it resolved. Thanks for all the help but this one was not going in the right direction and I'm ready to move on.
i know that my replay is already too late since you sold the car but i had this issue 3 times before with the exact same symptoms( fan running, ESP error, throttle not moving, no start) . along with one more symptom which you didn't mention which is the fuel gauge sets at zero fuel when ignition is on .. two times of the three , the first one the internal ECU chips got loose solder because of the heat ( ambient temp 48C) and i fixed it because i was the one who did the bad soldering job for the chip in the first place ... however in the second time this solder issue happened , i could not fix the issue and i had to replace the ECU from scrap and relearn the immobilizer ... third time it happened, the immobilizer lost its data for unknown reason... so i relearn it and that was 2 years ago, since then i had no issues with this regards...
so i suspect based on the behaviour you mentioned that most properly it is an ECU issue to be replaced
I agree with your suggestion. I got to the point of diminishing returns on the car and didn't want to pay for another ECU repair. The new owner was confident that he could resolve the issue and promised to let me know the solution. I will post the conclusion when he finds the problem.
Thanks everyone for the help. FYI I hate to give up so this is killing me
I'm the new owner of the next hammer as pictured above.
To continue where we left off so W211 owners can sleep well.
From what I'm understanding so far of the car is what effects a vast number of these cars especially with a panaromic roof. Condensation in the W211 has a tendency to build up in the drivers side fuse panel from the ecu harness.
Charged the battery, checked active errors and got the same errors as above. The throttle error codes are due to low voltage at the throttle motor signifying a weak voltage signal. ECU was not appearing on my XTool scanner with key programming capability. I checked the 42 fuse to see if voltage was arriving to the ecu.
The fuse terminals were corroded from moisture.
I cleaned the fuse and replaced it adding some dielectric grease and heard some clicking.
Contact was now possible with the ecu.
I was getting live data in value based form for programmed engine parameters. The software revision number was available along with the hardware revision. The ecu is recognized to the vehicle.
the throttle pedal showed a variable voltage signal but there was no voltage at the throttle itself.
I'm going to remove the fuse panel and clean it. I'm also going to see if jumping up to a fused full 12v signal will give the ecu proper voltage.
the pins for voltage at the ecu are supposed to be 12v not 3.5 volts... low supply voltage to an ecu will cause the voltage regulator to go bad and some of the ecus transistors because they can't dissipate heat fast enough.
Tomorrow I have new high quality fuses coming. Lots of cleaning and maybe replacement will follow. Lots of contact grease. ..
These panels are a big defect on w211s that's why almost all the ECUs suffer failure. Check yours ahead of time by removing the fuses and checking them for corrosion. I will try and upload pics of what it looks like.
I'm the new owner of the next hammer as pictured above.
To continue where we left off so W211 owners can sleep well.
From what I'm understanding so far of the car is what effects a vast number of these cars especially with a panaromic roof. Condensation in the W211 has a tendency to build up in the drivers side fuse panel from the ecu harness.
Charged the battery, checked active errors and got the same errors as above. The throttle error codes are due to low voltage at the throttle motor signifying a weak voltage signal. ECU was not appearing on my XTool scanner with key programming capability. I checked the 42 fuse to see if voltage was arriving to the ecu.
The fuse terminals were corroded from moisture.
I cleaned the fuse and replaced it adding some dielectric grease and heard some clicking.
Contact was now possible with the ecu.
I was getting live data in value based form for programmed engine parameters. The software revision number was available along with the hardware revision. The ecu is recognized to the vehicle.
the throttle pedal showed a variable voltage signal but there was no voltage at the throttle itself.
I'm going to remove the fuse panel and clean it. I'm also going to see if jumping up to a fused full 12v signal will give the ecu proper voltage.
the pins for voltage at the ecu are supposed to be 12v not 3.5 volts... low supply voltage to an ecu will cause the voltage regulator to go bad and some of the ecus transistors because they can't dissipate heat fast enough.
Tomorrow I have new high quality fuses coming. Lots of cleaning and maybe replacement will follow. Lots of contact grease. ..
These panels are a big defect on w211s that's why almost all the ECUs suffer failure. Check yours ahead of time by removing the fuses and checking them for corrosion. I will try and upload pics of what it looks like.
are you using DAS to diagnose? if so then access the me 2.8 ( which is your ECU and read the fault codes ... if u able to read that then the ECU is running ....if not then u still have an issue with the ECU...
another way to tell if the ecu is running is just looking at the fuel gauge after you switch ignition to position 2 ... if it reads the fuel level then it is a good indication ...also after you move ignition to position 2 you should hear the throttle and see it clinking twice ( opening and closing ) if this all happened then your ECU and throttle is doing well ...
do you still have the ESP issue on the dash ? if so then your ECU still has an issue.... if you are able to start the car even with the ESP error then your problem is with your ESP unit which most properly has water inside or the fuse box next to the ESP unit .... but if were not able to start then your ECU still has an issue
if you wanna determine if the throttle its self has issue or no ,, there is a way ... under the throttle body there is the bypass valve .. the bypass valve is actually just a smaller throttle body that use the exact same connector...swap the connectors and try to start.... the care is able to start with the bypass valve acting like a throttle .... but the engine will run poorly ... but if it started then at least you know it is the throttle issue ...
i had an accident before where the driver side fuse box was soaked in water ( which is next to the ESP unit) and engine was running but i couldnt switch the car off.. replace this SAM and see if this solve your issue....
but if after doing and monitoring all the above... you still have a hard time starting your engine then your only move left is to replace the ECU ...
Ls1 Mast, Yes I believe what you are saying. It looks as if the ESP module may be the culprit. Today I tested the voltage as arriving to the ECU and after wobbling and cleaning the fuse I'm receiving full voltage at the ECU terminals. Connection with everything in the ECU is possible except the Connection between the throttle pedal and the throttle body itself eluding to the Connection from the ESP throttle control being bad. Ecu is capable of being read and monitored. Sorry for the terrible glare You can see the amount of corrosion behind the panel from humidity Cleaned this fuse( no 42)and as you can see the terminals are capable now of making contact Voltage at fuse showing around 12 volts 12v here now as well at ecu connector 12v as well on other terminal ECU info appears
It was way too hot to finish today, no rush but next will be testing the ESP module, cleaning all the connections on the Driverside including the fuse panel. Update soon.. Bad ECU...?? W211?? Check for corrosion here as pictured.. ECU may go bad from low voltage because of poor contact.
it is great that you are able to read the ECU ,, i would suggest the following for cleaning and inspecting the electronics inside the ESP module and ECU,
open the modules with a screw driver ( there is a small metal parts that required to be unbend..
once it is open , you need to inspect visually if there is any burned pins or any corrosion ....
as for burned pins, i have no solution from my side rather then change the whole module
but if there is corrosion , use a paint thinner and a brush to clean it then blow the whole board with air until dry then install it and see if something changes.
from the picture you attached i can see that the ECU connectors looks clean and dry... try the ESP/ PAS ship on the other side to see if it requires more cleaning ....
one more thing ,,, let me know what happens when you have the key on position 2 and then try to crank the car .... you never know if there is something we missed ( video will be great if possible)
oh, i forgot to mention something .... try the SAM ( the 2 fuse boxes on the right side and left side of the car) what i mean by trying them is removing them completely from the car and see if there is water inside the connectors which is located underneath the fuse box .. believe me( i am telling you this from experience) even if you remove all the fuses only from the SAM and the fuse box looks dry but there is a huge amount of water between the SAM and the underneath connectors ...
to remove those connectors is not easy ,, you need to watch a youtube video about how to remove the SAM from the car ... w211 or w220 videos are available
oh, i forgot to mention something .... try the SAM ( the 2 fuse boxes on the right side and left side of the car) what i mean by trying them is removing them completely from the car and see if there is water inside the connectors which is located underneath the fuse box .. believe me( i am telling you this from experience) even if you remove all the fuses only from the SAM and the fuse box looks dry but there is a huge amount of water between the SAM and the underneath connectors ...
to remove those connectors is not easy ,, you need to watch a youtube video about how to remove the SAM from the car ... w211 or w220 videos are available
I've decided to go ahead and replace some of the modules. There are also some other issues with things like the key fob not working and the radio not doing anything as well. I'm going to start with the ESP and and then one of the body control modules. Esp module Body control module
They just arrived from Ebay.
hopefully these fix the issue. If not I'm going to just keep replacing the rest. I did a look over of the engine harness and found some small issues but nothing that would elude to a non start.
There is however no movement from the throttle body and the connections look fine. Potentially bad throttle body is a possibility but i still think it's something else since I'm not getting voltage to it.
The protocol on almost all bosch ME systems with ESP modules closes the throttle by regulating voltage ie cutting voltage to the throttle motor to prevent wheel spin. The ESP acts as an intermediary between the ecu and the throttle body.
The ECU is displaying the measurements for the throttle actuator with correct voltage limits and percentage so the ecu should be good.. in theory..
As soon as it cools off abit outside, I can also try bypassing the esp by providing a 12volt signal to the throttle actuator if changing the esp module doesn't work. Slowly but surely I'll get her running.
Hopefully not the ECU.. normally when the ecu is bricked you can't read any of this info.
The protocol on almost all bosch ME systems with ESP modules closes the throttle by regulating voltage ie cutting voltage to the throttle motor to prevent wheel spin. The ESP acts as an intermediary between the ecu and the throttle body.
The ECU is displaying the measurements for the throttle actuator with correct voltage limits and percentage so the ecu should be good.. in theory..
As soon as it cools off abit outside, I can also try bypassing the esp by providing a 12volt signal to the throttle actuator if changing the esp module doesn't work. Slowly but surely I'll get her running.
Hopefully not the ECU.. normally when the ecu is bricked you can't read any of this info.
you have a point there , I forgot about that u were able to read the ECU in DAS ... Hopefully the ESP module will do the trick
Replaced the modules, still no life.. decided to delve into the ECU possibility. Contacted "said" ecu repair company and they seemed like a place I wouldn't frequent for any services. Seemed more of a limited electronic repair service.
They cannot clone ECU's and said that if they cant fix something, then they only charge a certain amount... sketchy..
so I pulled the ECU out to see what is going on inside and ordered a replacement for it.
"Said" company didnt even reseal the casing to weather proof it. I decided to take a closer look at the ECU for any signs of damage. It was apparent they fixed something since some live data was able to be read and monitored. However, after alleviating the ESP module and other things I figured now it was possible something was not working in the ecu even though it had life.
it looks like we may have the culprit.
The "said" company stated a transistor was replaced and also said a connector pin was broken. The first half of that statement I believe, second part of that I don't so much.
Anyhow, another ecu has been ordered and should be in soon with a new throttle body just in case. Then it will be time to clone it or have more fun with a virgin flash and vin recognition at the dealer. TBD..
07-10-2024, 04:52 PM
