CynCarvin32

Very simple... the E500 is 3812 and the E55 is 4078 lb. Thats a big difference. Add to that the fact that the E500 is not so powerful that the chassis has no hope of staying on course and the E500 is the clear winner.

The steering the the E500 is much better than this one area makes me hate the E55. The E55 has the heaviest steering of any MB I have driven since the 1990's and it has almost NO feel. At time I wonder who really can throw the E55 around? A gorilla? I work out 6 times a week and man it makes me fight when I want to get moving.

The brakes on the E500 do have terrible fade but that is simple to predict and you can drive around that....

If I felt like blowing 4k in a day I would take my E55 and E500 to a local road course and I bet the E500 would be nearly as fast on a tight course. But I have nothing to prove... the E500 is a great car. I just dont enjoy the E55. If you love your car I am pleased for you. Im just that lucky!

HarveyKorenzo

I'd sell it.

MB SF

So let me get this straight, you had this revelation after plunking down over $80K for a car??

I test drove my E-500 and drove it like I stole it. The salesman didn't even blink an eye. I had a chance to drive the E-55 but passed as I knew I was not going to buy it.

So the question remains: You had this revelation after you bought the car? With all due respect, that's um not really prudent consumerism and fiscally irresponsible.

SamE55

I'm not too impressed with its handling (hopefully will get better once I get 19') but the brakes of the E55 are great. I've driven quite a few high performance luxury sedans in the past but I can easily say the E55 is superior regarding braking and forget about its monstrous power

mbprince

had an E500 for 6 months 'till the E55 arrived. like the E55 loads better - had to drive it 250 miles today for business and was grinning all the way. always test drive b4 you buy and your favorite whine will be in a bottle not a thread.

DRCrowder

Subjective, opinion, biased, unsubstantiated…

Those are all of the words that come to mind whenever I hear your E500 is a better car than the E55 saga…


**** PLEASE LISTEN CAREFULLY ****
..because you are already pissed at my above statement, I want to be clear on this:

-------------------------
I am not disputing how you FEEL. I think it is awesome that you like your E500 better, it matters not to me what you drive. I take issue with you making claims as fact and and the theory that adding that 200 pounds makes a hoot of a difference.
-------------------------

Let me give you an example of why it is pure BS:

Your claim is that the E500 handles better because it is 200lbs (approx 5%) lighter. If that were true, it would handle worse than your E55 with me as a passenger (225lbs). See, that’s just not correct.

Enough of this though, lets talk facts, shall we:

E500
Skidpad, 0.80g
600-ft slalom, 58.9mph

E55
skidpad, 0.83
600-ft slalom, mph 66.5

With a good driver, the E55 will always out-handle the E500, and that’s a fact. If you’d like to get into the physics of weight shifting and center of gravity, I’m all ready to do so.

MB SF

Nicely said. It may not be the best handeling car on the road but to say you hate it is really sad (not the car, the fact that you are in this predicament).

Silly humans

Marcus Frost

Since we're throwing around opinions, I'll add mine.

I've raced about a dozen cars from a dead dig, rolling start, and highway rolling start and hit the speed limiter a number of times with this car. These cars included a 996TT, VR4, SVT Lightning, W210 E55 AMG, and many more.

I have 5 people in my car at least once a month.

I've done threshold breaking from 130mph+ to 60mph and lower many times.

The W211 is a superior car to the W210. The W210 was a bit more planted, but it doesn't have the brakes, power, or the overall package the W211 has. Plus the W211 has Sport2 mode, which I think it makes it handle as well as the W210, although it doesn't "feel" like it.

The W211's brakes are incredible. Threshold braking in a 4000+lb car is NOT easy on brakes. I've done it a couple of times and there is no fade whatsoever. Very controlled, very linear, perfect. It's very smooth and predictable, just the way I like it.

I cannot tell you how many people have commented on how smoothly the W211 rides. This is even at 100+ - and people are amazed I'm actually going that fast. If I am downtown with friends we may come home late and some may doze off in the car, not once has the harsh ride from my car - even at 100mph - ever woken them.

FWIW, I actually traded in an '04 M3 on this car, and while no question the M3 had more feel overall, and handled much better, the E55 is for me a far better car overall.

-m

Vetluver

Amen brother. I agree with you completely. I have a W210 and traded an 03 E500 for my E55 and I can truthfully say that the E55 is superior in every way to the others. Again I say, it's not a cutting edge sportscar. It's a LUXURY car. It just so happens that it is quick as hell. Tires are critical and since I changed to a stiffer sidewall the feel is much better. Going to a 19" rim may make it even stiffer but also less comfortable. If I want to be uncomfortable I just have to go get in the Vette.

BlackC230Coupe

Wow! I never knew so many people did not like the way the E55 handle's.


CynCarvin32, were you one of the people that had the PSS9 or Carlsson RS on your C32? How much better did the C32 feel? (besides power). Maybe you should consider a C55 with some suspension upgrades if you need 4 doors.

CynCarvin32

good fact finding... facts ARE however a little different. Put the SAME tires on the 2 cars and the E500 is better than the E55... go read autoweek, motor trend and Road and Track... thats the facts. The E500 you speak of had the CH95 tires while the E55 has the Conti SportContact2. The CH95 is one of the cheapest and least grippy tires on any MB to date. E500's with the appearance package come with W rated performance tires similar to those on the E55. My E500 has the same 245 SportContacts as my E55 (17 vs 18 inch wheels) and the E500 had more grip. Now that I replaced the E500's tires it was far more grip than the E55.

With all due respect i bet i have pushed the two cars harder than you or many of the owners in the forum for that matter. I know Chill and a few others enjoy a spirited drive but most owners are more of on-ramp kings not sprited drivers.

As for physics... 130 lb blower kit well forward of the front axle... sitting on TOP of the motor (with intercoolers in the nose) = nose heavy. There is no getting away from that. I have spoken with the owners of various MB tuners and all openly say the E55 will never feel like an E500 because to heavy and has to much mass located in the nose of the car (and up high).

CynCarvin32

The only car I drive at the track is a friends C32 with the carlsson RS kit. That car is near perfect for a 4 door car at the track. You would be shocked what that car does with wheels, tires, brakes and that suspension kit.

When I had my C32 the Carlsson kit was not for sale state side but if it were I bet I still would have a W203 of some sort.

CynCarvin32

If you ever find a dealership that lets you rip apart a new car let me know. I will report them to MB and never buy a car from them. Would you want a car I beat the hell out of before buying it? Somethings are a risk... buying a car is one of them.

CynCarvin32

I will agree that the brakes on the W211 E55 are STRONG. They just have terrible feel. The W210 car had ok brakes but you are correct... they had far more fade when used for track use.

I spent the day at Willow Springs International Raceway with two friends who had a 2001 E55 and a 2001 E39 M5. The E55 felt FAR more stable, had more grip, a stronger motor, and a generally more solid feel than the M5. THe stock M5 was all over the place. When you chased the M5 you could see the car bounce and dance throught the corners while the E55 just hunkered down and went for it. That day was when I realized how crazy the media was. The stock E55 had far less understeer and was a better overall package than the E39 M5.

If the current E55 felt as solid and sure footed as the old E55 I would love the car. But I see it as a car with a motor thats a bit beyond the chassis. I should have had my E55 there that day but I was not so lucky!

W210

The E500 is fine and dandy until you press on the gas and then you realize how underpowered you are, oh well, when compared to the E55. For the few thousand dollars it brings the car to a completely different league.

Another aspect often ignored is the fast and robust transmission in the E55; the regular transmission, including the 7G seems so slow hunting for gears when driven in a rush.

DRCrowder

Please facts only, your supposed experience and what people "say" is meaningless.

You don't know where I got my facts, you have no idea what tires were on the car tested. I read all three of those mags, they are where my facts are coming from.

What an ignorant statement, you don't know me. I religiously AutoX and am actually quite good at it, look at my sig, my twisties car is one of the best handling (if not the best) BMW makes (.98 skidpad, 68.8 slalom) and I know how to drive it. I have never even done a ¼ mile (see my post of a day or so ago asking where I could do that in my local area)

They both have a 52/48 weight distribution. If you did know anything about physics, you'd know that without a stiffer suspension and lowering the car, the E500 CAN'T handle as well as the E55. According to MB, the AMG sport package on the E500 neither lowers nor stiffens the car.

sorry if the tone is too agressive, but quite frankly you telling me how I drive and where I get my information is just plain insulting.

SSpray

The brakes and steering to feel a little funny, but when I hop from the drivers seat of my XJR to the drivers seat of the E55, I notice a difference, but not in a bad way.

But I guess, to each their own.

CynCarvin32

About that whole tire issue... lets think for 1 second .... 2 cars ... same front contact patch.... same exact tire make and model.... 1 has 200+ fewer lbs to haul around... which one will have more grip and change direction faster? That's physics. E500 wins! An E320 NON appearance package (no airmatic) with 225/55/16 Michelin MXV4 Energy tires pulls .1g less than an E55 and has a speed through the cones of just .5 mph slower. Too close for comfort I think.

You need to realize there is NO sport pack for the W211 at this point in time. I don't call a body kit for 5k a sport package at all. The appearance package and the AMG Sport package both have performance rated tires but neither has any chassis upgrades (something I find totally insane). But if you go back and read the autoweek review for the E55, they said the car was fast but was slower through the cones, took longer to stop from 60 and felt far heavier than the performance biased E55k. Should the top dog W211 be regarded as the least fun to drive? I would hope not.... but many people have said that this is the case.

Honestly I doubt you have flogged the E55 and E500 back to back on the same roads. Do you have your E55 yet? I have had these cars for a year each and 24k total miles is some seat time. I never said you don't drive well just that you have not flogged the car enough to know what its like.

About the location of mass in the car I still disagree. The car is 200+ pounds heavier. Some of that is in the brakes, the diff, and the drive shaft but most of it comes from the blower, intercooler and the strengthened block. These things are all positioned in front of the axle, and up high in the motor bay. Now cars like the S2000 drive well because they have low-slung motors which are located behind the centerline of the front axle. The E55 is not trying to be an S2000 but the same theory applies. If Honda kept moving everything rearwards because they wanted a "reduced moment of transitional inertia" do you think throwing 130-150 lbs in the nose of a car will go unnoticed?

DRCrowder

lets keep it simple. Here is what I am saying:

1.3 inches lower and significantly less body roll coupled with the 50% more rigid chassis, makes a far greater impact on the handling than 200lbs, and the test numbers consistently back me up.

that's all.

nope haven't driven them both on windy back roads @ 8/10ths (but FEEL is subjective, I'm worried about capabilities)

Nope don't own it yet, and that's a sore spot cuz they just bumped me back two weeks.

Yes, I got extensive test drives in an used '04

CynCarvin32

Where did you get all this info? 1.3 inches lower? 50% stiffer? Maybe ill post some pics of the two cars going through a corner at the same speed so we can see about body roll. The E500 feels faily firm in Sport 2 but so does the E55. The car is not 50% stiffer ... no way!

When I get a second I will go measure the distance from the center of the wheel to the fender lip on both the E500 and the E55. I doubt its really 1.3 inches lower. But stay tuned.

Ill have to look up test figures... they may shock you.

DRCrowder

I called my dealer he said 25mm lower normally, 10mm add'l after 75/kph.
He also said the thicker swaybars and add'l beam running through back seats (that's why they don't fold down) result in a 50% stiffer chassis. He can't give me hard numbers for the reduction in body roll but says that sport2 in an E55 is much stiffer than the E500. Not really sure what "much" means.

VelocitE55

I have no problem with my brakes, I got used to them quick and I can use them very effectively, I like them. The steering could be better but then I knew how the steering was before I got the car, it sure didnt stop me from buying it. If you want more steering feel, you can always buy a hideous Bimmer. Long live the KING!

E55 KEV

This is the probably the main reason so many many more people buy the M5 and also why it's (E55) resale value is so poor compared to the M5. The handling is the weakness or the "Achilles Heel" for the E55, both W210 and W211.

CynCarvin32

A car has a bar through the rear bulkhead and its 50% stiffer? Please tell me you are not serious!

MB spends millions to re-design a chassis and they manage to increase rigidity by 30-40%. A terrible car like the old 9-3 might have had a big increase with some bracing but a little bar wont do anything near what you say.

You need to remember that stiffer suspension parts = roll stiffness and body modifications = chassis rigidity. Furthermore, when a car gets heavier you MUST increase the spring rates and bar size in order to keep the car at the same level of stiffness (takes more spring to control the heavier car). The reality of the matter is that an E500 is fairly firm in sport 2 and the E55 is a bit firmer -- maybe 15-20% stiffer.

DRCrowder

Unfortunately I'm a bit pressed for time or I’d try and dig up some actual facts on this, I’ll see if I can later. Anyhow thanks for toning it down a notch, the latter part of this discussion has been enjoyable