gmdebruyn

thanks rguy.

that makes a lot of sense. so besides the different ratio, the AMG possibly has the option of keeping the warranty intact. but you're right about the cost. Kleemann is the bargain here.

Gareth

04E55 AMG

Bargin? Make sure you research both options. AMG is a complete unit and the install is a simple plug and play install. Kleemann will send you the gears so the install is much more extensive. You have open up your stock differential and change it yourself. Based on my conversations with Kleemann, this is very time intensive (5 hours plus of labor) which needs to be factored into your overall cost. If you factor in the LSD and labor, the price difference is minor. I would not consider either one a bargin but well worth the cost.

gmdebruyn

04E55,

How much did your dealer quote you to install? Topline Auto quoted me 7 hours for the Kleemann OSD. So, about $650 to install. I believe the Kleemann LSD goes for roughly $2100.

Gareth

gmdebruyn

In fact, 04E55, you are right. We should research all the options. Here are the parameters I know of. Feel free to modify. I wish we could attach excel files/etc. Between all of us, we should have all the information.

Brand, Unit Price, Install Price, Ratio, Warranty Issues, Alternate Warranty
================================================== ======
Stock, $0, $0, 80:20, no, N/A
Kleemann, $2100, $650, 60:40, yes, 1 yr.
AMG, undisclosed, ??, 70:30, ??, ??
Brabus, ??

What else would need to be added to this list (column headers)? Can anyone fill in the ??'s. I just don't have time right now to go ask questions/email the folks out there with the answers. But I definitely would love to pick the best one.

Gareth

eclou

60-80% lockup is very, very aggressive for a street car. You will feel the inner rear tire scrub during turns and parking. I use a 75% lockup on my M3 track car, and about 40% lockup on my 951 track car. Most street cars will notice a benefit from 25% lock-up. As a note, the more lock up you have, the more the understeer/push you will experience in cornering.

gmdebruyn

the ratios i posted, the lower numbers are the lockup %'s. e.g. 80/20 is 20% lockup. sorry, i should have been more clear.

Gareth

neoprufrok

Forgive my ignorance on this matter, but it sounds like the stock lockup (based on the above posts) is 80%? So the Kleemann is 60%? And your m3 is 75% on the same scale? Correct? I was with you until you said at the end that the street car will benefit from 25% lockup.

04E55 AMG

I agree with you. When I spoke to Kleemann they told me that I would hear "grinding" when driving aggressive wth the car.

Lucas

I have it in E55, CLK500, SL 500 and there is no grinding.

It seems there is some misunderstanding of how the LSD works.

* Driving straight there will be no action/movement in the planetary gears.
* Turning arround a corner, the outer wheel will be running faster than the
inner wheel, here there will be friction in the clutch pack ( here there
should be noise if any, driving hard or not ) because the planetary gears
have to absorb the speed difference between the wheels.
* Lots of you talk warranty on rear axle, the LSD will take so much stress out
of the planetary gear, because it's locking the L+R wheel and actually
makes the planetary gear inactive ( not moving ) because the wheels run
with same speed.
Accelerating a powerfull car without LSD, WILL spin on one wheel and
hereby rotate the planetary gear in a ultra high speed which they are not
designed for ( they are only designed to absorb speed difference between
L+R side ).
* Cars without LSD, which are used to make burn outs, will suffer from brake
downs in the planetary gears, the small gear wheel will spin so fast that it
burns into the axle which holds it in the carrier, bring the axle in rotation
which will brake the split holding it, start rotating the axle in the carrier
and sooner or later BOOM. ( Seen on W210 E55 )

With LSD the rear would last for ever.

eclou

Although any differential can fail, LSD style diffs are subject to far more wear than "open" units. Their are a multitude of varieties of "locking" rear ends. Detroit, clutch-pack, quaife, etc. They all need to be rebuilt as their mechanisms wear. All of them wear faster than an open units as they are subject to much greater stresses as they increase torque transfer to the pavement. A spinning tire "unloads" itself. 2 tires hooking up transfer far more energy and subject the driveline with more resisted tq. It is the whole purpose of the locking style differentials.

RossN

How about 0-60 times and track times before and after when available?

Lucas

With or without LSD, you have to be the cause of rear axle failure your self.
Drag, curciut racing, or using the car in a way it wasn't ment for could in theory make the rear fail ( But it never do ).

04E55 AMG

Will let you know when it is installed in several months. Since I went with the OEM AMG LSD system (keep warranty intact), it will be take several months to be produced and then shipped from Germany.

Kleemann does state that they found that the LSD alone allowed our cars to shave .3 seconds in the 1/4 mile. Very impressive considering everything is still stock. These cars are monsters

DerekFSU

Had Kleemann LSD installed yesterday along with BF drag radials. Hoping to pick it up today or first thing in the morning for drag racing tomorrow afternoon in Valdosta.

eclou

LSD style rear diffs wear out more from street driving than on a road race course. The more 90 deg turns and parking manuevers you do, the more the clutch-packs wear down and the less lock-up capability is maintained. Drive a 75% lockup on the street for a few thousand miles and the break-away point / slip limitation is going to be reduced probably below 40%. The ring and pinion should still be okay but the diff oil temps will go up as the fluid is contaminated with more and more wear particles. Anything that more effectively fights nature and entropy wears out more quickly.

Vetluver

I'm still a bit confused as to the type of differential that a stock E55 comes with. If the OEM diff has a 20% lockup rate wouldn't this mean that it has a Torsen type? (doubt) If it has a conventional LSD then standard clutch packs are used and then lockup rates aren't mentioned. My Vette has Dana-Spicer 44 and I have searched hi and low about different types or percentages of lockup rates and can't find any references.

Another point is that if a OEM diff has a 20% lockup wouldn't this imply that it has a LSD? AMG LSD has a 30% lockup I wouldn't think that 10% difference would help that much for street applications.

What I want is for both rear tires to have equal traction upon lauch. My Vette lays 2 black stripes on the pavement in a burn out. My E55 feels like the primary drive tire is the right rear and the left is along for the ride.

Pardon my ignorance about this subject but I have no experience with changing them out or rebuilding them. I guess I'll have to study some more. I'm so confused!