View Poll Results: which would you buy
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which would u buy poll
12-26-2011, 07:02 PM
#51
Super Member
Yeah, I'm not a big "screen" guy, in that it's not a huuuuuge deal to me, but yeah, after sitting in a BMW, the Benz screens look absolutely tiny. It's a bigger disappointment in the CLS, as you'd think for that price they'd at least give you an adequate screen. The large screen in the 5-Series (which is Optional, btw, the standard screen is puny and nasty looking) also has graphics that make the M-B screen look completely antiquated. Oh well, I don't buy Mercs for the screens I guess. 
if any of you have see the new 3 series they have a nav screen thats "tablet" style and slides up. VERY sleek looking.
on the whole the interiors of the Mercedes lacks the originality of BMW.
on the other hand the exterior of the E63 is breathtaking.
12-27-2011, 12:13 PM
#54
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14 GL550; 14 E63s
Was able to test drive an 2012 E63 with the PP over the weekend. Car is simply beautiful inside and out. Wanted to compare it to a 2010/2011, but was unable to find one to drive while I was there. So all I can compare it to is my C63. Wasn't able to drive it too far or through any corners, but did play with the settings a bit. In comfort mode it was a very nice cruiser and a softer ride than my non-adjustable C. But in its stiffest mode, you can tell. Again, couldn't test the handling differences though. Once it warmed up I was able to do some red light starts and it's certainly not lacking for power. The C is pretty quick as well so not a huge difference between the two as much as my butt dyno could determine, but the E seemed to pull a bit more.
Huge difference in the transmission shifts. My 2009 C does not have the MCT 7 speed and its noticeable. That was impressive at least compared to the C.
Interior is obviously more luxurious with more bells and whistles. And of course its bigger. Not sure if I like the active bolstering on the seats. I know you can turn if off, but I think I like the C seats better. They seem to hug me just perfect. The AMG steering wheel on the E has a nice feel, but the silver trim looks a little cheap.
Would have never considered an Iridium Silver car, but this was just stunning especially with the CF rear spoiler. And I didn't think I would like the standard multi-spoke wheels, but they look very nice in person. Not sure if I'd upgrade to the 5 spoke or not.
Sticker was 105k and change. It had the extended leather, PP, CF spoiler, dystronic/lane assist/blind spot assist, but no pano.
Huge difference in the transmission shifts. My 2009 C does not have the MCT 7 speed and its noticeable. That was impressive at least compared to the C.
Interior is obviously more luxurious with more bells and whistles. And of course its bigger. Not sure if I like the active bolstering on the seats. I know you can turn if off, but I think I like the C seats better. They seem to hug me just perfect. The AMG steering wheel on the E has a nice feel, but the silver trim looks a little cheap.
Would have never considered an Iridium Silver car, but this was just stunning especially with the CF rear spoiler. And I didn't think I would like the standard multi-spoke wheels, but they look very nice in person. Not sure if I'd upgrade to the 5 spoke or not.
Sticker was 105k and change. It had the extended leather, PP, CF spoiler, dystronic/lane assist/blind spot assist, but no pano.
12-27-2011, 04:15 PM
#55
MBWorld Fanatic!
Would go for "1" due to the saving. The saving will get you the max 7 yr/135K warranty. Not crazy about a TT car due to all the extra moving parts as mentioned above. Yeah, TT are highly tunable for more power; but that risks voiding the warranty and you might be left holding the bag with a pitless money hole and nightmare after that.
Don't know where you find all those iridium silver '11 models. I see none around here in the Midwest or the South. Nearly all around here in Chicago is black.
If you plan to keep the car for a long time, then it probably does not matter either 1 or 2. Even though I would like $2-3K less on the price I paid, nearly everyone says that amount doesn't matter when I plan to keep it until the 7yr warranty runs out.
M5's interior looks amazing, but E63's teutonic, no-nonsense industrial design interior is excellent as well. Personally, I prefer W212's exterior over 5 series' exterior. The main thing for me is the crash rating. If you go through the actural crash data (meaning numbers) from major insurance crash testing, you will find W212 is structurally stronger than 5 series...especially the roof strength. Safety was the main reason I went with W212 E63 when I would be just as happy with the driving dynamic of a late W211 E63. Similarly, S-class is nice, but there is really no crash data on S-class or 7-series cars (plus no folding back seats, which was another main thing for me and came in handy as expected when I hauled back two long-70/80lbs box from IKEA last week). All the way, it's "safety first" for me.
By the way, M5 should be available in the States around March or April of next year. Don't know why that late.
Yeah, it's a known fact that SoCal bought nearly 50% of the world's new car every year for a long time. It was mentioned during the discussion on the economy. Not sure about SoCal's status now due to the near economical collapse in that state. China now surpassed the US in some of the figures.
Don't know where you find all those iridium silver '11 models. I see none around here in the Midwest or the South. Nearly all around here in Chicago is black.
If you plan to keep the car for a long time, then it probably does not matter either 1 or 2. Even though I would like $2-3K less on the price I paid, nearly everyone says that amount doesn't matter when I plan to keep it until the 7yr warranty runs out.
M5's interior looks amazing, but E63's teutonic, no-nonsense industrial design interior is excellent as well. Personally, I prefer W212's exterior over 5 series' exterior. The main thing for me is the crash rating. If you go through the actural crash data (meaning numbers) from major insurance crash testing, you will find W212 is structurally stronger than 5 series...especially the roof strength. Safety was the main reason I went with W212 E63 when I would be just as happy with the driving dynamic of a late W211 E63. Similarly, S-class is nice, but there is really no crash data on S-class or 7-series cars (plus no folding back seats, which was another main thing for me and came in handy as expected when I hauled back two long-70/80lbs box from IKEA last week). All the way, it's "safety first" for me.
By the way, M5 should be available in the States around March or April of next year. Don't know why that late.
Yeah, it's a known fact that SoCal bought nearly 50% of the world's new car every year for a long time. It was mentioned during the discussion on the economy. Not sure about SoCal's status now due to the near economical collapse in that state. China now surpassed the US in some of the figures.
12-27-2011, 05:00 PM
#56
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Would go for "1" due to the saving. The saving will get you the max 7 yr/135K warranty. Not crazy about a TT car due to all the extra moving parts as mentioned above. Yeah, TT are highly tunable for more power; but that risks voiding the warranty and you might be left holding the bag with a pitless money hole and nightmare after that.
Don't know where you find all those iridium silver '11 models. I see none around here in the Midwest or the South. Nearly all around here in Chicago is black.
If you plan to keep the car for a long time, then it probably does not matter either 1 or 2. Even though I would like $2-3K less on the price I paid, nearly everyone says that amount doesn't matter when I plan to keep it until the 7yr warranty runs out.
M5's interior looks amazing, but E63's teutonic, no-nonsense industrial design interior is excellent as well. Personally, I prefer W212's exterior over 5 series' exterior. The main thing for me is the crash rating. If you go through the actural crash data (meaning numbers) from major insurance crash testing, you will find W212 is structurally stronger than 5 series...especially the roof strength. Safety was the main reason I went with W212 E63 when I would be just as happy with the driving dynamic of a late W211 E63. Similarly, S-class is nice, but there is really no crash data on S-class or 7-series cars (plus no folding back seats, which was another main thing for me and came in handy as expected when I hauled back two long-70/80lbs box from IKEA last week). All the way, it's "safety first" for me.
By the way, M5 should be available in the States around March or April of next year. Don't know why that late.
Yeah, it's a known fact that SoCal bought nearly 50% of the world's new car every year for a long time. It was mentioned during the discussion on the economy. Not sure about SoCal's status now due to the near economical collapse in that state. China now surpassed the US in some of the figures.
Don't know where you find all those iridium silver '11 models. I see none around here in the Midwest or the South. Nearly all around here in Chicago is black.
If you plan to keep the car for a long time, then it probably does not matter either 1 or 2. Even though I would like $2-3K less on the price I paid, nearly everyone says that amount doesn't matter when I plan to keep it until the 7yr warranty runs out.
M5's interior looks amazing, but E63's teutonic, no-nonsense industrial design interior is excellent as well. Personally, I prefer W212's exterior over 5 series' exterior. The main thing for me is the crash rating. If you go through the actural crash data (meaning numbers) from major insurance crash testing, you will find W212 is structurally stronger than 5 series...especially the roof strength. Safety was the main reason I went with W212 E63 when I would be just as happy with the driving dynamic of a late W211 E63. Similarly, S-class is nice, but there is really no crash data on S-class or 7-series cars (plus no folding back seats, which was another main thing for me and came in handy as expected when I hauled back two long-70/80lbs box from IKEA last week). All the way, it's "safety first" for me.
By the way, M5 should be available in the States around March or April of next year. Don't know why that late.
Yeah, it's a known fact that SoCal bought nearly 50% of the world's new car every year for a long time. It was mentioned during the discussion on the economy. Not sure about SoCal's status now due to the near economical collapse in that state. China now surpassed the US in some of the figures.
IIHS rates the F10 as having a barely better than "Acceptable" rating of 15,000 lbs of roof strength, while the W212 is at the top of the charts with a "Good" (best rating) 21,000 lbs of roof strength.
Also, there's this:
5-Series:
E-Class:
12-27-2011, 05:08 PM
#57
Super Member
Well said about the interior and safety. The F10 has strong safety stats, but analyzing structural integrity of both, the W212 is vastly superior.
IIHS rates the F10 as having a barely better than "Acceptable" rating of 15,000 lbs of roof strength, while the W212 is at the top of the charts with a "Good" (best rating) 21,000 lbs of roof strength.
Also, there's this:
5-Series:
E-Class:
IIHS rates the F10 as having a barely better than "Acceptable" rating of 15,000 lbs of roof strength, while the W212 is at the top of the charts with a "Good" (best rating) 21,000 lbs of roof strength.
Also, there's this:
5-Series:
E-Class:
12-27-2011, 05:11 PM
#58
Senior Member
The roof on the BMW looks buckled more so than the MBZ. Also looks like the "pillar" between front and rear seats has collapsed noticeably more on the BMW.
12-27-2011, 05:28 PM
#59
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Yup. The roof area of the F10 seems relatively "weak", with the low load figures, and the visual data showing it collapsing a bit (notice the windshield folding in, the moonroof shattering/popping out, and the bend in the roof area). The W212 looks incredibly strong via those pics, like you can actually just put new doors on and drive it away.
12-28-2011, 04:44 PM
#60
MBWorld Fanatic!
Each safety category encompasses a range, so you can be at the top or bottom for a certain range and still be grouped together as, ie "Good." That's what makes the actual data the most important. At the same time, the large amount of data can be daunting and info overload.
Talking about information overload...I used EuroNCAP, JapanNCAP, AustraliaNCAP, NHTSA, and IIHS. On IIHS, there is actually a small link on each page for the individual car that would give you all the actual numbers. Of course you will have to go and read what all those numbers mean.
Overall, it looks like MB still comes ahead of Bimmer in terms of safety even though Bimmer has greatly improved their products over the years. For example, look at the side collision number where they measure the length from the intrusion to the center of the front seats. Those few inches might not seem like much, but they are enough to determine whether or not a pelvic fracture is in store for you. Yeah with pelvic fracture, you can bleed out before help arrives. For side collisions and roll-over (including further impact when the car is already on its side after rolling over), I would definitely want to be in a MB E over a Bimmer 5. Same thing with MB C over a Bimmer 3. With several such example from the same manufacturer, it means it's no accident that MB knows what they are doing.
Similar thing with the company Subaru's...out of all the Japanese marques, Subaru is probably the best in knowing how to build safety...which is why I had the Legacy before I traded it in for the W212.
Yeah, it took me several days pouring over actual numbers over a year ago while on vacation at my in-laws' house--after that I crossed out 5 series and changed over to MB.
By the way, look at the roof strength of the GLK...gosh that number is incredibly high but of course it has that boxy design to its roof, like the Nissan Cube.
Talking about information overload...I used EuroNCAP, JapanNCAP, AustraliaNCAP, NHTSA, and IIHS. On IIHS, there is actually a small link on each page for the individual car that would give you all the actual numbers. Of course you will have to go and read what all those numbers mean.
Overall, it looks like MB still comes ahead of Bimmer in terms of safety even though Bimmer has greatly improved their products over the years. For example, look at the side collision number where they measure the length from the intrusion to the center of the front seats. Those few inches might not seem like much, but they are enough to determine whether or not a pelvic fracture is in store for you. Yeah with pelvic fracture, you can bleed out before help arrives. For side collisions and roll-over (including further impact when the car is already on its side after rolling over), I would definitely want to be in a MB E over a Bimmer 5. Same thing with MB C over a Bimmer 3. With several such example from the same manufacturer, it means it's no accident that MB knows what they are doing.
Similar thing with the company Subaru's...out of all the Japanese marques, Subaru is probably the best in knowing how to build safety...which is why I had the Legacy before I traded it in for the W212.
Yeah, it took me several days pouring over actual numbers over a year ago while on vacation at my in-laws' house--after that I crossed out 5 series and changed over to MB.
By the way, look at the roof strength of the GLK...gosh that number is incredibly high but of course it has that boxy design to its roof, like the Nissan Cube.
Last edited by otakki; 12-28-2011 at 04:46 PM.
12-28-2011, 04:56 PM
#61
Super Member
that's great but I highly doubt a lower safety rating will ever influence my decision about buying a car. heck If a car didn't even have airbags I'd still buy it if i liked it.
12-28-2011, 05:01 PM
#62
Senior Member
Same here. But I know a number of people who only buy BMW vehicles because they feel they are so safe. They feel that way after having been in wrecks while driving them.
12-28-2011, 05:01 PM
#63
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
whats with rear side door airbags not standard
only curtains
my 2005 c class has the rear door bags standard, but doesnt hae curtains as they werent out back then
only curtains
my 2005 c class has the rear door bags standard, but doesnt hae curtains as they werent out back then
12-29-2011, 07:18 AM
#64
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
My theory is for two reasons:
1: Cost cutting.
2: M-B, the innovators of Safety, not offering the side door Airbags that they have had as Standard since the 90's, and that generic $15K cars all have as Standard nowadays, do so because they feel that they designed the safety cage of the W212 to be strong enough to where it doesn't need side bags. To me, there's never "strong enough" to sacrifice on Safety measures, so it's really all about #1, with their excuse being #2.
1: Cost cutting.
2: M-B, the innovators of Safety, not offering the side door Airbags that they have had as Standard since the 90's, and that generic $15K cars all have as Standard nowadays, do so because they feel that they designed the safety cage of the W212 to be strong enough to where it doesn't need side bags. To me, there's never "strong enough" to sacrifice on Safety measures, so it's really all about #1, with their excuse being #2.
12-29-2011, 07:56 PM
#66
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Not sure, but I have no doubts that Pano sacrifices some structural rigidity, just don't know how much.
12-30-2011, 07:11 PM
#67
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yeah, dumb cost cutting of $500 for rear side airbags that should be standard on a $90K+ car.
One thing for sure about the pano is it raises the center of gravity.
Anyway, I myself was about to go for a Bimmer until I did my homework. It will be nice not having to worry about all these safety tidbits and just go buy any car you like. For me, my life is finally starting after passing the final hurdle a few months ago, after 18 years of post-high school trainings. Thus I'm going to maximize my chance for survival and decrease the chance of accidents spoiling my fun from now on.
One thing for sure about the pano is it raises the center of gravity.
Anyway, I myself was about to go for a Bimmer until I did my homework. It will be nice not having to worry about all these safety tidbits and just go buy any car you like. For me, my life is finally starting after passing the final hurdle a few months ago, after 18 years of post-high school trainings. Thus I'm going to maximize my chance for survival and decrease the chance of accidents spoiling my fun from now on.
