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Here is the best compromise I found before changing to my full system. So the power was amazing in fact as good or very very close to what I have now but the difference is now my car still drives and sounds like a Mercedes, before at times sounded like a 5.0 Mustang and I didn't like that. So about the exhaust: that's sec cats and resonator deleted, 2x2.5" straight pipes with a 1.5" equalizer pipe (diameter matters, bigger diameter adds more restriction) just like the stock resonator except more flow with less restrictions (the location of that "H" is very important DO NOT INSTALL THIS FORWARD won't work well) . The small H pipe is a little bigger the one inside my stock resonator but I was happy with it, it made it about 15% quieter than the straight pipes, less popping and a little more top end.
X-pipes will always produce more no matter what, anyone argues otherwise has no clue what they are talking about. It has been documented hundreds of times over the last decade.
To put it simple, straight/H-pipes are for muscle car sound. X-pipes are for more power and more European/German refined sound.
X-pipes will always produce more no matter what, anyone argues otherwise has no clue what they are talking about. It has been documented hundreds of times over the last decade.
To put it simple, straight/H-pipes are for muscle car sound. X-pipes are for more power and more European/German refined sound.
That's all you need to know plain & simple
Well actually crossed pipes is a very much American V8 design, in fact it remains a big part of the big block v8 heritage (What German car is equipped with x-pipes?). But anyway as I said before, the fact that one is better than the other is a big myth and pure speculation by random people, unlike what you think there is no actual prove that x-pipes performs better on any application (maybe works better on one car but not on another due to how the car is tuned from the factory). I look at race applications where they spend big $ to gain any little bit of performance they can. If you can show me a Formula1 car, or LeMans or Rally car with a X-Pipe on then this conversation is settled. But let me save you some time you won't find it. Sounds like this is what you have in your car and it's not bad but I do think that at least on this car you will get more power with just straight pipes even though it's not the sound you want to hear.
Getting my NA e63 delivered next week which is completely stock. My first mod is going to be removing the resonators and I am still debating which path to chose.
Currently I am planning to simply replace with straight pipes.
Getting my NA e63 delivered next week which is completely stock. My first mod is going to be removing the resonators and I am still debating which path to chose.
Currently I am planning to simply replace with straight pipes.
It's the cheaper way and you can easily change it later. Generally speaking any muffler shop in the US will push you into believing you should get a x-pipe installed (after all it's more parts and labor). I hope you like V8s as some people pointed out it will sound more like a Mustang 5.0
Getting my NA e63 delivered next week which is completely stock. My first mod is going to be removing the resonators and I am still debating which path to chose.
Currently I am planning to simply replace with straight pipes.
let me know if you want to hear my car I have almost straight pipes with sec. cats and resonator deleted (a small 1" H-pipe in the back to eliminate some of the popping)
let me know if you want to hear my car I have almost straight pipes with sec. cats and resonator deleted (a small 1" H-pipe in the back to eliminate some of the popping)
Yes I saw your setup, please send me a sound clip or post
Yes I saw your setup, please send me a sound clip or post
thanks
sorry my gopro is gone I will buy a new one later today and take a better video. So cold start is pretty loud (for like 15 secs) but after that is pretty much as loud as stock maybe a little bit more except at higher RMPs then it gets pretty loud but the german way. It doesn't sound like a Mustang at all (not that Mustangs sounds bad) -
wow that sounds good although not the same as the AMGs which is interesting. I don't know how AMG engines sounds so ferocious maybe because it revs up so quick? I'm not sure man but I would think it would sound about the same just not as high? With the Weistec you can disconnect it and see what's like without any cats, a local shop will prob charge you $40-$60 to test it out but make sure you share that moment with us though
Well actually crossed pipes is a very much American V8 design, in fact it remains a big part of the big block v8 heritage (What German car is equipped with x-pipes?). But anyway as I said before, the fact that one is better than the other is a big myth and pure speculation by random people, unlike what you think there is no actual prove that x-pipes performs better on any application (maybe works better on one car but not on another due to how the car is tuned from the factory). I look at race applications where they spend big $ to gain any little bit of performance they can. If you can show me a Formula1 car, or LeMans or Rally car with a X-Pipe on then this conversation is settled. But let me save you some time you won't find it. Sounds like this is what you have in your car and it's not bad but I do think that at least on this car you will get more power with just straight pipes even though it's not the sound you want to hear.
Your statements are 100% incorrect, just because you have not taken the time to do the research (or used the search button), that does not mean proof does not exist. Being an armchair engineer does not make you an expert on the subject.
If you had done a proper search you would have comes cross numerous dynos on this own forum. Since the old W210 E55 AMGs, numerous dynos have showed 8 wHP on a car that made 280whp (roughly a 2.8% gain).
Apply the same % to a car that dynos roughly in the 450-550 wHP range you are looking at roughly 12.6-15hp at the wheels.
Furthermore, X-pipes balance the pulses from both cylinder banks further improving scavenging effects (regardless if it is NA or turbo). Straight pipes have a more stocatto muscle car sound because the pulses are not balanced and the pulses do but cancel out certain sound wave frequencies, for this reason straight pipes sound more harsh and are louder.
As stated before, X-pipe is the best for power and produces the smoothest sound because it balances the pulses from both cylinder banks and cancels these unwanted frequencies out, and in some cases can quiet down the exhaust slightly because those extreme pulse peaks are cancelled out.
The only one spreading myths and rumors is yourself, please stop spreading misinformation (I mean this in the most polite way possible).
Please use the search function, and stop quoting F1 cars as if you know the first thing about F1 engineering
Your statements are 100% incorrect, just because you have not taken the time to do the research (or used the search button), that does not mean proof does not exist. Being an armchair engineer does not make you an expert on the subject.
If you had done a proper search you would have comes cross numerous dynos on this own forum. Since the old W210 E55 AMGs, numerous dynos have showed 8 wHP on a car that made 280whp (roughly a 2.8% gain).
Apply the same % to a car that dynos roughly in the 450-550 wHP range you are looking at roughly 12.6-15hp at the wheels.
Furthermore, X-pipes balance the pulses from both cylinder banks further improving scavenging effects (regardless if it is NA or turbo). Straight pipes have a more stocatto muscle car sound because the pulses are not balanced and the pulses do but cancel out certain sound wave frequencies, for this reason straight pipes sound more harsh and are louder.
As stated before, X-pipe is the best for power and produces the smoothest sound because it balances the pulses from both cylinder banks and cancels these unwanted frequencies out, and in some cases can quiet down the exhaust slightly because those extreme pulse peaks are cancelled out.
The only one spreading myths and rumors is yourself, please stop spreading misinformation (I mean this in the most polite way possible).
Please use the search function, and stop quoting F1 cars as if you know the first thing about F1 engineering
OMG! Dude let me just say I also read the same articles you are reading and also listened to similar comments as the ones you just mentioned up there before. I have dynoed at least 3 of my bikes, I dynoed my M5 twice and my Camaro once. If you go talk to those guys they will tell you everything I just said over and over again. X-Pipe blah-blah balances the cylinder banks blah-blah is a myth. Proper tuning is what reall matters - I'm sure you heard bottled water gives you cancer before well this is the same ****. Well it makes sense say you - good then prove it? Now will X-Pipe make your engine quieter and perform better than stock most likely yes but if we are talking about raw horsepower you can't beat free-flow. Most people that talks about X-Pipe never actually drove their car with a different setup, one it's not street legal and two it sounds awful. Anyway I don't get into a catfight about this, I respect your opinion since I also had the same opinion once. Here are some Formula 1, MotoGP and Lemans draw your own conclusions.
I have actually been present when a dyno was done on a particular car (1992 Mustang with heads cam intake mods). H pipe vs X pipe. X pipe won by about 1.x rwhp peak but lost out to the H everywhere else.
In fact even at 6k rpm, the H pipe outperformed the X. The only place the x really did well was at peak HP which was part of the 4500-5500rpm range. Lost out everywhere else.
Also another thing. While the concept of X to improve scavenging is true, it's only true to a limit. The location is of utmost importance. In the resonator area, any X or H will simply be a source of restrictions. That's because it's too far back out. The pulses are too close to each other by that point they overlap.
X and H pipes are best utilized as close to the engine as possible (which on a E63 will be right around where the secondary cats are placed. The further back you go, the less effective and even more restrictive it becomes.
All this above works more for NA engines. Add a turbo or 2 and the case for exhaust crossover becomes even worse in terms of restrictions. Especially as you go as far back as the resonator in the biturbo E63s.
At the exhaust shop currently. I've decided to leave in my secondary cats and simply replace the resonator. I am straight piping the resonator.
Should be done within the hour, can't wait! I went through 6 different exhaust iterations on my previous NA car so maybe less on this one
if you looking for aggressive sound with out being to obnoxious then go kleemann/ MBH headers, race cats (primary), x pipe delete 2nd cat and leave the rest stock including resonators.
I went through them all
Shorti headers, long tube headers, straight pipes
and what i mentioned above was best for daily driving
if you looking for aggressive sound with out being to obnoxious then go kleemann/ MBH headers, race cats (primary), x pipe delete 2nd cat and leave the rest stock including resonators.
I went through them all
Shorti headers, long tube headers, straight pipes
and what i mentioned above was best for daily driving
I'm starting out small, which is why I even left in the secondary cats. As far as the sound with just resonator removed and replaced with straight pipe... I think it's perfect! This car sounds so amazing when backing off or, general cruising, or really smashing it. I'm excited!
The next thing that might affect sound (slightly) is my ROW airboxes, and then I am doing a dyno tune at my friends shop. He has headers to install for me also but currently plan is just tune.
I've said it before. IMO you should straight pipe a turbo car and X a naturally aspirated one.
My ideal setup for an M156 would be MBH headers with an X pipe mid section.
For an M157/M278 just some straight downpipes depending on budget/tune from either: weistec (look awesome but $$$), MBH, or AMS - all sell quality pipes.
I've said it before. IMO you should straight pipe a turbo car and X a naturally aspirated one.
My ideal setup for an M156 would be MBH headers with an X pipe mid section.
For an M157/M278 just some straight downpipes depending on budget/tune from either: weistec (look awesome but $$$), MBH, or AMS - all sell quality pipes.
So, I should replace my resonator with straight PIPE ah !??
I am also afraid of the exhaust sound its gonna crapped out!! like annoyingly loud....
this is old but many people are ridiculously overstating and overestimating the sound and effect of a resonator delete on turbo cars. Its important to understand what a resonator even does. Its basically a frequency tuner for the exhaust although it does muffle the sound SOME it doesnt muffle it MUCH it is more intended for tuning the sound a certain way. Because of this, simply doing a resonator delete with a straight pipe does not make a huge dramatic sound difference in any way. the difference is good enough for most people but it is far from obnoxious or loud. people are afraid of the straight pipe when it is actually better for reducing backpressure which is the enemy of turbo cars. and it also adds a good deeper growl. I truly do not believe X pipe is necessary for a resonator delete unless you are planning to do a muffler AND resonator delete. at least for the turbo cars. NA is different in sound and characteristics so I cant say
Well actually crossed pipes is a very much American V8 design, in fact it remains a big part of the big block v8 heritage (What German car is equipped with x-pipes?). But anyway as I said before, the fact that one is better than the other is a big myth and pure speculation by random people, unlike what you think there is no actual prove that x-pipes performs better on any application (maybe works better on one car but not on another due to how the car is tuned from the factory). I look at race applications where they spend big $ to gain any little bit of performance they can. If you can show me a Formula1 car, or LeMans or Rally car with a X-Pipe on then this conversation is settled. But let me save you some time you won't find it. Sounds like this is what you have in your car and it's not bad but I do think that at least on this car you will get more power with just straight pipes even though it's not the sound you want to hear.
You know formula one cars rev to 18k plus rpm? And they idle at 5000rpm? And you wanna compare the principles of their exhaust system to a car that revs to ~6600rpm (high rpm my ***)
I will agree that more power will not be gained from any of the different resonator replacement options mentioned in this thread. However straight pipes will sound good but lose power especially with time. MB has their cars set to cut power (actually torque management) when it detects wild variations in the exhaust. It's even more advanced in the W213 which will cut boost completely above 4000rpm if the exhaust valves in the mufflers are messed with (or mess up themselves)
You know formula one cars rev to 18k plus rpm? And they idle at 5000rpm? And you wanna compare the principles of their exhaust system to a car that revs to ~6600rpm (high rpm my ***)
I will agree that more power will not be gained from any of the different resonator replacement options mentioned in this thread. However straight pipes will sound good but lose power especially with time. MB has their cars set to cut power (actually torque management) when it detects wild variations in the exhaust. It's even more advanced in the W213 which will cut boost completely above 4000rpm if the exhaust valves in the mufflers are messed with (or mess up themselves)
Can you confirm this? not that I doubt you but i am generally curious and cannot find info about it. I am interested to see what models this effects.
Old post I know... I’m having the same dilemma with my 2014 E63S as the sound is just.... not loud enough anymore...
I laughed at the argument that was made earlier on F1 cars and Lemans cars not having X pipes... should look at the length of the exhaust pipes on those engines. You can easily tell the exhausts exit very very quickly without the restrictions of extended piping, catalytic converter, resonators, and etc. Why one would compare our engine and exhaust setup with F1 cars I don’t fully understand and is not sound logic.
All this being said, I’m leaning more towards straight pipes to replace the resonators if anyone tells me I’ll lose any sort of performance?
Old post I know... I’m having the same dilemma with my 2014 E63S as the sound is just.... not loud enough anymore...
I laughed at the argument that was made earlier on F1 cars and Lemans cars not having X pipes... should look at the length of the exhaust pipes on those engines. You can easily tell the exhausts exit very very quickly without the restrictions of extended piping, catalytic converter, resonators, and etc. Why one would compare our engine and exhaust setup with F1 cars I don’t fully understand and is not sound logic.
All this being said, I’m leaning more towards straight pipes to replace the resonators if anyone tells me I’ll lose any sort of performance?
10-09-2015, 04:02 PM
