ProfessorX

If this is a fact then why does MB keep adding more horsepower every year to the same Bi-turbo engine?

PeterUbers

The m157 went from 530hp to 577hp, 585hp in Europe I think

A 40hp bump at the crank is not the same as 110hp/130tq the tunes are offering

And if they are going to give me 577hp in 2014+ With a warranty then wonderful

How do YOU know that 577hp isn't the max for what they regard as the best for performance and longevity of the car working the current stock maintenance guidelines?

ProfessorX

Well my E63 only has 518hp so in 2012 YOU may have thought that it was set at the max HP at the time when the m157 first was released. I personally don't know how much HP any engine can take over the manufacturers settings before it becomes harmful yet I also don't believe that AMG engineers have the freedom to max an engine's potential. I watched an interview with the Dodge CEO and he gave his engineers freedom to push an engine further than ever with the HELLCAT yet that's not typically a option given to engineers at most auto manufactures. If MB dealers do the Renntech tunes at their dealerships then I believe that they know that it's more safe power in the engines. They don't warranty the tune because they don't have to so it's money in the bank for MB. No aftermarket changes are covered under a manufacturer's warranty but I also don't believe that changing your radio or wheels that all of a sudden makes your car unsafe.

You changed to a different push button start on your car right? If something goes wrong with your ignition system and MB sees an aftermarket start button they may tell you your warranty is voided even if the aftermarket button had nothing to do with your ignition problem. That's just good business on their part to void warranties for aftermarket changes if they choose.

PeterUbers

Ok

KaseZome

I love wagons and in the US, it's the only model on your list that is available as a wagon. I also chose a 2012 because I prefer RWD to AWD.

However if the M5 came in a wagon it'd be my first pick.

otakki

HP/TQ figures are limited possibly on paper only. If you fork over so much more for a S63, I don't think you would want to see equivalent engine figures in a E63?

viren.89

lol looked at TSLA over 690 hp n 690 tq AWD as well now- Came into my list of potential cars but then

learned that if I were to go on a long trip and did few "spirited runs" on my way i'll run out of juice way faster than I'd find superchargers to charge the car.

So living in Canada -n where I'm living I have only one supercharger 125 miles away from me. -So TESLA is out of my list right now.

TX E55

I like the looks of my E63 the best, the car looks like a pugilist in a business suit. The power is insane and this is my 7th Mercedes. Traded-up from a wonderful 2005 E55 (for sale!) and couldn't be happier.

Panamera was a non-starter given the looks, I could not bring myself to look at that car everyday. I seriously considered a 997.2 Twin Turbo but as soon as I drove the E63, I was done. And for about 20 grand less used (2012) than the 911 Turbo which was a 2010. For another $3K I'll do the ECU and wait for downpipe prices to come off their cloud and that will suit me just fine.

Audi has had a bad rap for reliability lately, and I just think it misses the mark for panache.

The only other car I lusted after was the new AMG GT-S coupe, but that car is in another universe for cost and I only buy my AMG's a few years old. Let someone else pay that depreciation! I did buy the extended warranty on my CPO car, I have four years of unlimited mileage coverage from the dealer. I sleep really well at night, unless I start to think about my car and then I have to get up and go to the gym early and give her a little exercise on the way!

Good luck.

russjr

just came from S63 and before that E63S. wonderful cars; no complaints whatsoever.
looked at M5 and felt build quality not equal to Mercedes.
Porsche had exquisite interior but harsh ride and even some hood flex, plus Porsche's usual rapacious pricing.
have just purchased- a first- RS7. love the looks, seems to be of equal build quality to MB and VERY fast with good steering.
concerned about issues with first year CTS-V

may go back to MB with new E but for now couldn't be more pleased with Audi.

cnolke

I have 3 kids and I love wagons, so it had to be the E63 wagon with the P30 and RWD. The RS6 isn't available here. If it was? *shrug*. I had a CTS-V before and it was significantly smaller inside than the E63, but I loved it otherwise. It just wasn't a 5-passenger wagon.

For a Panamera that's just as quick, you will spend much more than the price of a well equipped E63S.

I have a 991 Turbo S, and I do like Porsches a lot, and I've driven several Pannys. But the 2-passenger rear seat and price mean that the 991 is currently my only Porsche.

If you are looking at sedans, consider the new CTS-V. If you can't do the interior, I understand. But the dynamics of the car are really really good. I drove one and almost bought it without any understanding of what I'd use if for.

absent

Picked up a 991TS in November 2013, hit by a truck 2 weeks later, car totaled(daily driver).
Have to have AWD (Chicago weather), 991TS were not available immediately, ergo RS7s, I like Panamera TS but did not see the value at around $200k (one available).
Got sick of driving insurance provided rental after a week (took them a full month to decide about totaling my car), my MB dealer had E63S in stock so I made a package deal trading G63 for RR LWB Autobiography and E63 purchase.
It was supposed to be a temporary car until I could get something else, 2 years later I am still driving it (Renntech modded of course).

TonyC

i'm with this guy, minus 1 kid.

kimsd

Coming out of a manual e90 M3 I was looking to get into a larger vehicle that was one of the fastest on the tarmac.. This left me with the M5 and a E63S. I know you said regardless of price but the RS7 was just too expensive for what it was and Audi Pasadena or DTLA did not want to work a deal with me. The Panny TT wasn't in the targeted budget as well so I would have considered a P4S but my brother had one and my pops had the first gen turbo. They drive awesome but just way too many blind spots for a 100 mile round trip commuter. The B pillar and the wide hips that are formed by its hatchback appearance make it a much stressful car to drive than a normal sedan like a 5 or a E. I also have a Cayenne Turbo which is essentially a overweight lifted Panamera..

One thing that pushed me away from the M5 Comp pack was that I had a M3 for four years before. While the power was all completely different the car still felt quite similar in lots of small ways... The Interior, the power delivery, choppy ride, weak exhaust sound.. etc. This is my first mercedes and the amg powertrain really made an impression on me like most. I wanted to try out something I wasnt familiar with and its exactly what I got.

On a side note I still miss 6mt and am actively looking for a 997 GT3, Turbo, or the upcoming 991.2 S. LOL

Stephen

astolfor

Me too, I had an RS6 and LOVED it. Came to the US and no RS6, so my wagon is an E63 but after all the glitches, bad software, lag, vibration....I do not think I would buy another AMG again. Pathetic experience so far in my 2015 with less than 3k miles and 6, and more to come, visits to the dealer...so much for a daily drive!


Cr@p my Italian prima donnas are more reliable!

Pumpkinate

I had the V10 RS6 with an APR tune, the thing was brilliant! My CLS is OK but I confess I really miss the RS6. I'll likely get another one at some point.

cadeca

I wanted a wagon, but agree with Peter's rationale as well. I like the sleeper factor and not attracting additional attention from the highway patrol.

otakki

I heard from a SoCal buddy who recently acquired a BMW S1000RR that Cali no longer has that many cops and highway patrols around to issue speeding tickets anymore. That was when I called him a few months ago to ask him if he planned to get a radar detector. So maybe you don't have to worry about that.

csquared

Have you guys considered Porsche Cayenne GTS or Turbo?

E63 S is the best, but I prefer older W212 design with 6.2L engine and hydraulic steering.

RS7 is overpriced, considering it has cheap plastic interior which you get in standard A7s. I do like the look and tech better than E63 though.

Panamera is way too stiff and engine lacks torque. PDK transmission is insanely fast, better than MCT.

I have 2011 E550, but it's lacking the sportiness of the E63. Hoping to trade in for new E63 4matic or BMW X5 M?

Should I get the E63 4Matic or BMW X5 M? I'm a current BMW owner, but I love older BMWs more than newer ones. The new BMWs fail to engage me, but never bought or test driven an M car before.

TonyC

PDK is fast but it's also not butter smooth like the MCT, especially when it first engages. The cayenne somehow depreciates faster than the w212, and they're like lil badges of shame. that leaves the panamera with the PDK, and the thought of having to look at that thing every morning when you go to work just made me not wanna buy it.

sdg1871

I have both a 2013 Panamera GTS with PDK and a 2015 E63 S with MCT.

If you're going to base your car decision on the transmission definitely get the PD in the Panamera. While the MCT is smooth in engaging from park to drive I believe it is dangerous. It is incredibly slow to down shift if you were at low speed and suddenly attempt to accelerate quickly.

This is especially bad if you're rolling to a stop and then have to hit the gas while you are still rolling. The MCT just can't figure out what gear to put the car in and there is a very dangerous delay which can cause you to get hit in an intersection as the car bogs and doesn't move much. This also sometimes happens when you just need to speed up fast from a low-speed. The MCT just messes it up and doesn't know what to do for like a second.

The PDK is lightning quick and smooth once underway. The engagement of drive from Park is a little rougher than the MCT but that's the only area where it is not vastly superior to the MCT.

Bottom line: the MCT is pretty good with upshifting but pretty terrible when downshifting. The PDK is rifle shot quick in shift and almost telepathic in selecting the proper gear.

Of course no engine in a Panamera is the equal of the incredible M157 monster engine in the E63 S.

TonyC

my old 911CS PDK was totaled when some kid rear-ended me right in between the bumper support; nothing to do w/ the transmission type. just saying.

to NOT buy an AMG because of the "possibility" of not accelerating fast enough to avoid an accident is sorta like not flying on Dreamliner 787 because of crash records.

medici78

I have a '10 Panamera Turbo I've had for almost 6 years. I did some minor mods including ECU tune, downpipes, Techart paddleshift conversion to the multi-function wheel, and 5-spoke Sport Classic wheels. It's a beast. I love the car.
However, I bought it when I had 2 kids.
I now have 3 kids so I needed a larger vehicle if I was to include all the kids and the wife. The wagon gives me room for everyone + the dog and is a nice backup vehicle to my wife's GL63, should she need it.
Both are awesome cars.
If I had to give one up (and value was not in the equation) it would be the Panamera but mostly due to the fact that I oftentimes need the space and I LOVE having a fast station wagon.
Used Panamera Turbos are amazing values, btw. If you don't need the room, I'd give one a look.

sdg1871

I love my E63S. It is lightning fast and always makes a great showing at speed competitions. And makes for a great daily driver. But I am not a Kool-Aid drinker. The feature I am talking about in the transmission is very bad and there are indeed threads on on this website by multiple owners calling out the dangerous tendency of the transmission not to downshift fast enough in the situation I have described. It is a problem that Mercedes should address.

PeterUbers

Totally agreed... The trans is a big fail on this car

TonyC

I get what you're saying, and I'm insisting there's no "problem" relative to the hundreds of thousands of **** boxes in Civics/Camrys out there.

Thank goodness it's a free country.