EddieK

Looks like the new E63S is getting 600+hp for 2017.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/leake...s-will-604-hp/

PeterUbers

Really looking forward to this new E63S.... The 9 speed alone has me fascinated

The underrating game most likely will continue ... Curious what this new motor really produces

TonyC

i really should dyno the P30 just to see if my car is "underrated"...

and 600hp from 4 Litres sounds so tasty.

BerndV

MB appears to be claiming 0-60 in 3.5 seconds...the exact figure they claim for the current E63S. Top speed limited to 155 mph? The M157 on the E63S is underrated by MB and already puts out over 600 HP. The new car will probably have improved handling, but I doubt straight line performance will be noticeably quicker.

PeterUbers

It should do better in roll races and on the highway... Not that the current e63S is a slouch on the highway now but I feel like it doesn't want to kick down to at least one more gear when I go WOT at say... 70mph....

otakki

There is only so much you can squeeze out of an smaller-displacement engine. Eventually, all might have to rev like Honda's to attain the same numbers.

kponti

I have my doubts as to just how much more power can be gained with tune...I estimate not nearly as much as the M157 unless heads and cam profiles are redesigned. And or larger turbos

rediesel

I'm sure the M177 engine is capable of making that much (based on what tuners are getting), but it's also over 100hp and 100 lb/ft more than the M177 engine is making in the C63S as well as the M178 is making in the GT-S.

2012 merc amg

I'm surprised they did not up the boast a little to get 650 hp out of it and beat the CTS-V's 640 advertised HP.

BenzoBoi

Excited to see how this car plays out. The tranny handling all that power worries me though...

kponti

Isn't the 9 speed just a redesigned 7 speed? With software to make up the other two gears?

otakki

With S63 always making more tq (at least on paper), does that mean the new S63 will have way over 700 lb-ft? I'm still skeptical that S-class will go for the 4.0TT. Rather, I have a feeling the S-class might stick with M157.

YellowJacket

I hope they can make it lighter.

PeterUbers

Supposed to be nearly 200lbs lighter thanks to new e class body structure

ML63 AMG

Interesting, never heard this before

PeterUbers

The case for the 7g tronic actually as designed to handle two more gears ... And the new 9g apparently uses this same case with the added gears but I'm sure there's more to it

kponti

I just cannot find the article that stated something to that effect anymore

gaspam

M177 has twin scroll turbos like the BMW M5 s63tu (the S63 is single scroll and one of the main reasons it hasnt advanced in tuning like the s63tu)... the M157 has single scroll turbos.... twin scrolls make about 20% more HP given the same size turbo and give quicker trq delivery

i think that is going to be big for tuning once the M177 platform gets some more time (its actually very similar to the audi 4.0TT engine)

here is a pretty good article on TS vs SS turbos and some testing on their project car that has around same WHP as M157 tuned cars

http://dsportmag.com/the-tech/twin-s...-great-divide/

kponti

Good stuff!

gaspam

there is a good article on benz boost about the engines (audi 4.0, c63s 4.0, bmw m5 and m157.. cant post link here but if you google "
Comparing the design and output of the German twin turbo V8's stock and tuned" it should show up

gaspam

im looking forward to a lighter C63 BS with M177... hopefully it happens

looney100

Gears are mechanical, not sure how you would recreate them with software.

absent

It is long past due for the S to have a different and more powerful engine then E, just because of it's higher position in the food chain.
Keep the current 5.5, redesign transmission to handle the torque and put the power at high 600 (leave 700+ for S65)

Heisenberg

I agree they should keep the larger displacement engines in the S class.

Here are the various engines with their rated output from the factory and with the basic Renntech ECU flash (i.e. no downpipe or turbo upgrade) which should be a decent indicator of maximum reliable output with maintaining everything else stock.

It is very impressive what the 4L M178 is capable of with its 4L displacement. On the AMG website, the M177 is stated as using mono-scroll turbochargers. Turbos used in the M178 are not specified. Only the 2L 4 cyl M133 is listed as having twin-scroll turbos.

Renntech does not have the M177 data on its website but I seem to remember reading that their flash was similar, if not better, than the M178. If the M178 uses twin-scroll and the M177 uses mono-scroll turbos, the former don't seem to give an advantage.

The older V8 and V12 engines still have the potential for significantly higher output than the M177/178. Mercedes has already acknowledged that the aging M279 V12 engine is getting a redesign... if it is updated with the latest technologies it will be a true beast.

older engines:
M278 (S550): 449/516 (1800-3500) > 530/606
M157 (S63): 577/664 (2250-3750) > 669/734
M275 (S600): 523/612 (1900-4000) > 582/752
M279 (S65) 621/738 (2300-4300) > 670/840

newer engines:
M178 (GTS): 503/479 (1750-4750) > 601/605
M133 (CLA45): 355/332 (2250-5000) > 428/417

It is worth mentioning that while the Renntech ECU software power boost comes at the expense of the very flat torque curves supplied by the factory program. I can assume the factory tune is conservative for maximum reliability and future headroom for power increases to keep up with the competition, and to provide the most even power response.

gaspam

i read here and a few other mags that M177 was twin scroll... would be nice to get a definitive answer

http://www.evomagazine.com.au/first-...des-amg-c63-s/