E63 AWD vs cls63 RWD roll race
12-08-2016, 03:35 PM
#26
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,625
Received 1,989 Likes
on
1,392 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
.
The following users liked this post:
Amg63- (12-08-2016)
12-08-2016, 04:24 PM
#27
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Funny how the "owner" of this CLS cannot seem to explain how anything here adds up and makes ANY sense at all, rather just posts a bunch of videos that are completely IRRELEVANT to the original video that was questioned.
Last edited by Amg63-; 12-09-2016 at 01:03 PM.
12-13-2016, 10:39 AM
#28
@Amg63-: I was the owner of the CLS. As stated above, the driver of the silver E63 told me that it was tuned as well (apparently producing even more hp than my CLS given the newer tune). As you correctly say there should not be such a difference in performance assuming that both cars had a similar weight. My only explanation is that the owner of the E63 was simply not telling the truth and his car was in fact completely stock (although I don’t know why someone would blatantly lie about this at a race event...).
As for the video of the E63 vs. the Audi TT: please note that this is not the E63 I raced against, but another one (albeit similar-looking). Both races took place at the same race event close to Berlin (Germany) in August 2014.
As for the additional videos of the CLS, I was just providing them “as courtesy” so that you can see how it performed vs. other cars.
As for the video of the E63 vs. the Audi TT: please note that this is not the E63 I raced against, but another one (albeit similar-looking). Both races took place at the same race event close to Berlin (Germany) in August 2014.
As for the additional videos of the CLS, I was just providing them “as courtesy” so that you can see how it performed vs. other cars.
The following users liked this post:
Amg63- (12-13-2016)
12-13-2016, 11:41 AM
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Ok then so the owner of the E63 clearly straight up lied about his car having ANY tune on it at all, let alone a "better" version of the same tune you are running.
Its ridiculous how someone would lie about that and actually think his stock E would have any chance in keeping up with a tuned CLS. I guess he didn't mind knowing he would make a fool out of himself.
This still and never will make any sense, sorry.
Its ridiculous how someone would lie about that and actually think his stock E would have any chance in keeping up with a tuned CLS. I guess he didn't mind knowing he would make a fool out of himself.
This still and never will make any sense, sorry.
12-13-2016, 01:55 PM
#30
MBWorld Fanatic!
It's entirely possible that there was something else wrong with the car so let's not accuse anyone of lying just yet...
12-13-2016, 05:34 PM
#32
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
logic tells me its both
12-13-2016, 07:46 PM
#34
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,625
Received 1,989 Likes
on
1,392 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
Houston I thank we have a problem
12-13-2016, 07:48 PM
#35
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,625
Received 1,989 Likes
on
1,392 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
12-13-2016, 08:04 PM
#36
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
12-24-2016, 07:20 PM
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
I just realized that the e63 NON S in this video has only 531 tq vs the 590tq of the RWD. Yes both have 550bhp but the torque difference between them is HUGE. That shouldn't be overlooked as if it won't change the outcome here
so isn't the torque advanatge the main reason why the RWD caught up by the time they reached 125+mph more so than the drivetrain being a little more efficient at higher speed?
with same torque levels on both does anyone think/know if the RWD will ever catch up before the 4matic reaches the speed limiter?
so isn't the torque advanatge the main reason why the RWD caught up by the time they reached 125+mph more so than the drivetrain being a little more efficient at higher speed?
with same torque levels on both does anyone think/know if the RWD will ever catch up before the 4matic reaches the speed limiter?
Last edited by Amg63-; 12-24-2016 at 07:23 PM.
12-24-2016, 07:22 PM
#38
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,625
Received 1,989 Likes
on
1,392 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
just realized that the e63 NON S in this video has only 531 tq vs the 590tq of the RWD
so isn't the torque advanatge the main reason why the RWD caught up by the time they reached 125+mph more so than the drivetrain being a little more efficient at higher speed?
with same torque levels on both does anyone think/know if the RWD will ever catch up before the 4matic reaches the speed limiter?
https://youtu.be/OxWhFn68MIs
so isn't the torque advanatge the main reason why the RWD caught up by the time they reached 125+mph more so than the drivetrain being a little more efficient at higher speed?
with same torque levels on both does anyone think/know if the RWD will ever catch up before the 4matic reaches the speed limiter?
https://youtu.be/OxWhFn68MIs
This looks like an e63S
12-24-2016, 07:24 PM
#39
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
12-24-2016, 07:50 PM
#40
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,625
Received 1,989 Likes
on
1,392 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
no problem -- yeah it's annoying ... if they are going to take the time to post the video, even in some cases take the video, I'm not exactly sure why they post the wrong information especially if they want to showcase the car
12-24-2016, 10:49 PM
#41
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delaware
Posts: 1,331
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes
on
8 Posts
2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7
4MATIC center differential
... although you can also just look at dynos and get a guestimate... but i dont see much difference between rwd vs awd whp numbers so that would indicate driveline loss is not that big on our 4matic system... keep in mind its doesnt have a center diff like a quattro system
Originally Posted by gaspam 12-05-2016, 03:15 PM
im not sure that reason pertains to 4matics since we dont have the torsen diff like quattros, ours are open diffs and traction control is controlled by Electronic Traction System... one of the reason our 4matics have a much higher tolerance between front and rear rolling radius on tires than quattro system.. (esp is a reason too).
http://www.awdwiki.com/images/merced...matic-w221.jpg
This one is not exactly the same, but does a good job of showing the torque split:
http://www.awdwiki.com/images/merced...ic-w210_xx.jpg
I think the 2018 model with "drift" capability will allow a RWD mode. So it may have AWD at the start line, and then switch to RWD.
Happy Holidays!
Last edited by kevink2; 12-24-2016 at 11:07 PM.
12-25-2016, 04:57 PM
#42
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes
on
155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
I'm a bit confused about what you think of the center diff, but I think the 4MATICS in the E63 AMG do have a center differential. It uses a planetary gear set to create the 67% rear torque bias. These links help show it:
http://www.awdwiki.com/images/merced...matic-w221.jpg
This one is not exactly the same, but does a good job of showing the torque split:
http://www.awdwiki.com/images/merced...ic-w210_xx.jpg
I think the 2018 model with "drift" capability will allow a RWD mode. So it may have AWD at the start line, and then switch to RWD.
Happy Holidays!
http://www.awdwiki.com/images/merced...matic-w221.jpg
This one is not exactly the same, but does a good job of showing the torque split:
http://www.awdwiki.com/images/merced...ic-w210_xx.jpg
I think the 2018 model with "drift" capability will allow a RWD mode. So it may have AWD at the start line, and then switch to RWD.
Happy Holidays!
12-25-2016, 06:40 PM
#43
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
12-25-2016, 10:43 PM
#45
12-25-2016, 10:48 PM
#46
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes
on
155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
if you're going solely off Dyno numbers then awd vs rwd is really no diff then since they both dyno about 600whp tuned ..... but we know that's not the true story in awd vs rwd efficiency so bringing up dyno is kinda pointless since on our cars rwd don't dyno higher than rwd by any significant amount
12-25-2016, 10:53 PM
#47
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
if you're going solely off Dyno numbers then awd vs rwd is really no diff then since they both dyno about 600whp tuned ..... but we know that's not the true story in awd vs rwd efficiency so bringing up dyno is kinda pointless since on our cars rwd don't dyno higher than rwd by any significant amount
12-25-2016, 11:02 PM
#50
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes
on
155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
most people dyno our cars in 5th gear which goes well past 125mph by end of dyno run at top of rev range ... so that difference doesn't show up in 5th gear dynos
