gaspam

i would love to!...please show me you're mid 10 sec/ mid to high 130 trap for your M157... I'll wait... all talk, no results blah blah blah

i did, none except gad had a tcu solution and dont feel like send my car to germany.... pure turbos are cheap at under 6K.... the hardware has never been the expensive part... its the tuning solution where the price gouging was going on.... the gad car are off the shelf GTX3076 so not sure why you had trouble finding inexpensive turbos if you werent buying a tune included kit since you are tuning your car yourself it requires 2+ hands for me and what i do in my sex porno room is my own business
i guess i have been imagining that M157's cant cut 1.5x 60ft times... please enlighten me as to who's getting those 60fts on our platform... otherwise its still a real problem that we arent imagining

KLR CLS

The perceived issue being that these cars are not great performers because other cars might be able to out 60' foot them. I cut A 1.79 first time out on street tires on a rwd car with a fairly soft launch. Any more aggressive roasted tires and was just worse. With Dr's I'm sure that number will come down. And you know what..it ran 11.8-9 at 126-7 with tune and Dp's....in 5700DA and 30+ degrees Celcius at the track. Have similar tuned cars gone low 11's..yes..not in the same air, and not on the same day or track. Should I have burned my car to the ground as a piece of **** because cars on the internet are faster? Should the 700hp Stage 3 dinan M5 that ran next to me and also ran 12's at about the same traps, left his on the side of the road for free cause I ran faster??

See my point here is not to quash discussion about solutions or techniques to improve the situation. By all means.. try things out, share your experiences, help the community. But do we really need one more pseudo trolling post about how terrible these cars are because of third or fourth hand info, and no meaningful dialog on solutions....?

Mike450

I suppose we are reading things differently, as I see most here stating what a great performance car it is, but that it can't launch.

As for the meaningful dialogue, this isn't a issue with a soloution that no one will accept. It's a well known tuning issue that some the most technical experienced tuners on the platform haven't been able to solve. Beyond *****ing about it, what meaningful dialogue do you expect to hear about this tuning issue here? You certainly don't expect a member to offer a practical solution, do you?

A vendor/tuner is either going to solve it, or not. Hell, it took HPT nearly 10 years before they developed and released 100% tuning version for the archaic nag1 tcu in the srt8 scene. Chances of Joe Blow W212 E63 owner solving this issue is slim, sad to say.

RobbieRob

M157 motor is a beast, the rest of the 14-16 areas of the car is very disappointing. Horrible interior, horrible trans, boring exterior, etc, etc, etc. Honestly, one of the worst cars I've owned because I expected so much more. M's and RS's walk this car in the real world and they offer nicer interior's. If Audi offered a RS6 wagon here in the states, I guarantee there would be an unbelievable amount of E63 wagon owners driving an Audi.
Ok, besides the M157 engine being great, one area that I believe the E63 shines over the others is reliability, less issues than the others, especially the M's.
I was so bored with My E63s that I sold it and got a new E43, just because of the looks and interior,,,
For people that own one car and that does not drag race or install any mods, the E63 is a very capable car. Once the mods start and you start racing, there are many more options out there that will get you going ALOT faster. And please everyone, don't believe the forums or magazines regarding trap speeds and 1/4 times, go to the track and see for yourself, these cars aren't doing the advertised stock numbers or the tuned numbers that some say.

KLR CLS

Like usual you miss the point entirely. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to improve it, or even discuss how. I am saying most people complaining, including you, do nothing to help and only rehash half truths or speculation regularly to no real end? In fact ...what the heck is your point exactly?

I'm all talk when I have spent over a year and a half with three different vendors trying to produce a quality, affordable turbo offering ( when I sent my cores out the first time, powerhaus or pure had not even started on theirs). **** fell through several times before I was back where I started and Tony Vargas came through big time.

He actually is interested in moving the platform forward, and the first barrier to that is reducing costs to the point that people will actually try and experiment with things to improve. Had I started there, we would have been the first ones out by a mile. But cool,you sent an email to shifty Russians who have never shown proof of any capabilities or offered an actual product.... Guess there is nothing more you can do?... To the Internet to *****!

Whats you logic here? You don't have a current path to reduce 60' by a tenth or two, so you don't want to add 200hp via a turbo upgrade, and completely transform the car? Everybody wants to set the record, but nobody wants to do the work.

Please show me M3/4/5/6 cutting a 1.5 60. In fact show me any w211/219 doing so regularly? I was the first person to run 17' hoosiers on my W219 CLS55 so I know a thing or two about hooking up. I wrinkle walled those *****es on the regular, and only ct a 1.62 best on an 11.3 @ 127. That, combined with tree'ing the **** out of most others, was enough get the win light most days even against faster cars. If I got beat, did I sulk and complain on the internet? No, when I wanted to go faster, I moved on to a new platform in the CTS-V and built and tuned every inch myself and ran 10's. When I got bored of that I moved on. I had a hellcat on order 7 months and got sick of waiting and bought the W218. See, that's called taking action. When I get to the end of my W218 modding path, I'll move on again.

Sole Point here, again, is complain to a point, then do something about it, up to and including moving on. Got it Champ?

chiromikey

Did the CLS55 have different rear brakes than the E55? Just trying to figure out why you ran 17s instead of 16s (which we were doing before the CLS55 even came out).

I'm running 17" Hoosiers on my W212 and the launch is utterly disgraceful. I'll keep trying different techniques but I have a feeling I'll be in a different car before I find something acceptable for my standards.

gaspam

actually that's the whole point of complaining... to enact a change... like maybe tuners seeing there is big market for tcu tuning

no, you are all talk on the specific comment you made about our car being a mid 10 sec/ mid to high 130mph trap car... i am still waiting for your timeslip backing that up... nice misdirection though

shifty russians? nice bigotry.. but they are german but who cares about facts right? and you assume i didnt contact weistec/ renntech or ams... you're assumption it wrong as i contacted them too

i bought AWD for a reason... to launch hard out of the hole... my logic is that it sucks when an awd car launches so crappy with so much power.

here ya go smarty... guess you dont know as much as you think as you couldnt think of one and i found 20 in a few seconds... also there are more M cars on instagram cutting 1.5xs that arent on dragtimes.... also if we add M156 cars that list would get a lot bigger... still, no M157 though
...



that's because you are captain superman and the best! you've already told us how great you are at building/tuning/ racing
again that's because you are the best


that's what some of us are planning to do captain superman, duh, why you think we are discussing it? maybe to hope to get some interest in tcu solution and if not then something new

Mike450

That would be due to what I mentioned above about the archaic Nag1 TCU tuning that existed at the time. Converter wouldn't fully lock and tcu hated any sort of stall at the line. Today is a different story.

You should have zero issue pulling 1.5's or lower with a proper geared, tuned, and tire'd 211/219 trapping 127mph today.

KLR CLS

Then we are definitely reading it differently, because this thread exists for a reason. As the title says, enjoy it for what it is. Meaning even the op was tired of hearing comments like " why are MB engineers so terrible, Why is this transmission so terrible, why are M5/RS cars so much better", etc etc.

First off, from an engineering standpoint, The addition of the MCT to the 722.9, which has been out since 2004 was done to provide direct mechanical lock up characteristics of a manual in an existing auto package. Not to rip 1.5 60's. Ever notice that nobody complains about in gear acceleration in these cars? Because once you are rolling flywheel and trans input are locked. You don't get the traditional flash stall of a TC car. This is traditionally viewed as more sporting characteristic, and was the actual engineering goal of AMG. It's actually a rather smart way to change the characteristics of the existing transmission package.

Yes there are compromises to this. To ensure smoothness, you cannot simply hit it with a ton of pressure and ramp the apply rate aggressively, because most AMG buyers ( ie old moneyed types) would loose their **** at that type of engagement. Add in the fact the massive down low torque the m157 is capable of and you are looking for a broken parts recipe.

See, thats the thing that most people don't understand when they complain. First of its not some binary value of "torque limiter on". In fact its not even directly a torque limiter( though there are those too) Its a system of dependent hw and sw attributes that need to be addressed. The launch characteristics of this car are 100% dictated by the MCT logic and HW. The fix will require modifications to apply pressures and rates for possibly hundreds of combinations variables in the SW to have it both smooth under normal conditions, and agressive in sport+ or other modes. Even if you could do that ( someone out there should be able read/ flash the Siemens VDO TCU) at that point you may be dealing with the mechanical clutch characteristic of the MCT itself. Maybe if you hit it with fast/high pressure..maybe there is slip, chatter, breaking.

The major problem is the TCU sits directly on top of the VB it controls to actuate the solenoids that provide the hydro-mechanical actuation to the trans components. In the NAG1/722.6 trans you could intercept the CAN signals and modify them to control the VB however you wanted. in the 722.9 that is not possible. I have been looking for a spare AMG MCT VB for some time for some experimenting, but haven't come across one. Maybe after my build this year, I'll try and tackle that.

From there there are software tools like this:
http://mechasoft.de/item/7g-tronic-c...-calibrator-2/

Which looks to allow you to edit many of the characteristics that would be needed to change the MCT apply characteristics. You have to combine it with vediamo from the looks of it, but I haven't dug too deep into it yet.

See, this is my approach to doing something about it. Not whining about the same crap we have all heard. News flash, most tuners are all operating with the same tools they all buy from same people ie EVC/WinOLS, byteshooter, Dimmsport etc. There is generally no reason for them to go out of their way to be creative in actually solving engineering problems. This isn't an unsolvable problem. It needs serious people, with an actual understanding of the problem and what it takes to solve it working together....or you can buy an M5.

Mike450

I don't disagree with much of what you say, we just view things slightly different.


And yes, the 8HP units also integrate the VB and TCU into the case. It's presenting a challenge to those tuners as well, or at least, it was as of last year. Haven't spoken with too many since then to see if it's been solved.

Good luck.

10speed

I think we have to remember the European cars are really well rounded ,especially the amgs best of all wolrlds with comfort ,handling,great braking, and very fast there's really not many cars that can compete considering how many cars are out there.
Europeans really concentrate on road course where Americans where always 1/4 mile monsters that can only go straight,They are making some of the best handling cars now but there not good for 1/4 mile .Sometimes two of the same platform the underpowered car will perform better on a road course than a car with to much power it will be become uncontrollable,

KLR CLS

I don't know what funnier...That you are so obtuse or that you are too stupid to realize it. A ****ing aircraft carrier could fly over your head. But sure, keep thinking I am bragging about my 10 sec build ( you know the one I said EVEN IF I can make 800whp I know if won;t be fast as other cars). I mean I am nothing but talk talk talk, with the turbos I literally got 2 days ago after a year and half in progress. Why isn;t my car built yet..I am so ashamed! For the record, and since you can't count there are 12 W211's on that list( 2 of which are the same car) on a 15 year old platform...and 1 F10 M5!


I'm done with trying to reason with you. Clearly the only way for "tuners" to solve your problem is to complain on an infrequently used internet forum where there is maybe 10 customers. The more we whine...the more they will act!

KLR CLS

Yes, its actually smart idea to mount directly to the VB from a shift response perspective. By mounting directly, you eliminate the distance of the signal travel to the VB solenoids and cut response times. ****ty from a serviceability perspective, but Vediamo lets you reflash through the port, so its just a matter of the right integration from an appropriate SW editor, then some good old fashioned experimentation.

KLR CLS

I ran 17's not 16s because I wanted to run a 10" width wheels to square up the hoosiers, not the CLK 16's most were running at the time on the e55's. I found a set with the right offset by complete fluke ( a a flea market of all places), and the combo worked great. I won several events simply due to hole shot and hookup.

What is your experience on the hoosiers with the W212? Do they not hook or bog, roast? I have 18" 305 ET SS DR for the W218, but the only 18x10.5 with the right offset I could find was a 5x114.5. I just haven't got them re-drilled to fit right and safe yet.

10speed

This guy didn't do to bad,looks like he had tons of lag too lol!

gaspam

funny you are the one that said
that's when i said " i would love to" in reference to M157's and said please show us that timeslip where you are doing it in a M157 (since that is what we are complaining about) or else you are all talk .... and then from you... nothing other than changing the subject....

and funny, you said you are the one doubted M cars and W211's where running 1.5's 60fts and asked for proof and then when i provide it, you ignore that you were wrong and call me stupid lol... great rebuttal

seems like when you are wrong its because others are stupid, not because you are wrong

and yeah, we've been seeing your "turbo's a comin" signature for a while (you even changed it since it was taking forever) and still nothing... until then all talk.... show some real results as to how great the performance is instead of telling us

chiromikey

I had 16" CCWs in 9.5" and they would have done 10" wide if needed.

The Hoosiers out perform the car's launch capabilities at this point. The only consistency is to use Race Start and live with mid 1.7 60ft times. If I brake tq and launch below 2k rpm it bogs, above 2500 rpm and it goes into limp mode. If you try to hold rpms between 2-2.5k it goes into limp mode again after a second or two. So you have to catch the rpms on the rise during that split second between 2-2.5k. If you do that there's no way to hole shot that 10 second CTS-V that's gonna leave you if you're d*cking around with your rpms.

KLR CLS

Well there you go inferring things that aren't said, instead of the actual point captain semantics. I DIDN'T SAY go drive a 10s w212/w218. I SAID go drive ANY mid 10s car, and tell me how un-enjoyable it is. The suggestion being that if you drive a 10s car, you would likely not care about if your ran a 1.8 instead of a 1.6 because its fast and fun as hell! I guess we actually have room for that whole missing "Armada" trump is sending to Korea over your head.

And 11 whole sub 1.6 w211 cars in 15 years..golly..thats ALMOST 1 a year!! How can we live with our shame? How could I be so wrong as to say a 1.5 60' was not a regular occurrence? What about all those M5's too...oh wait it's 1 that destroyed the trans and motor.

Yep..had to change my sig to keep up my rep. I let my sig do the talking. I am sure you won't be interested in the best performing, best priced turbo option when I am done spending my money, cores and time bringing them to market. You'll probably wait for that horrible lag problem to be solved before you are ready right? I mean you keep talking about how you will probably do turbos...if only they fixed that lag right...

Heres the difference when it comes to proving who is all talk....I 'm looking at these

gaspam

lol that;s my point that you are too dense to get... I want M157, not some other car, to run mid 10's with high 130 traps.... show me your timeslip of M157 doing it as that is what we are complaining about typical douche move to bring trump into a car forum debate lol

a lot more than M157 or your car... again blah blah blah still better than your missing timeslip

so you are guaranteeing it will be under $5,995? and best performing? seriously back that claim up right now of get the f*ck outta here with that statement... so me some data to prove you ran better than the pureturbo 6.1 60-130 mph... backup you statement, otherwise its just more talk
yes, because i am not stupid and waste money if i cant get the performance i want.... #logical

[QUOTE=KLR CLS;7127956]Heres the difference when it comes to proving who is all talk....I 'm looking at these

KLR CLS

Great, I'll will be fulsomely detailing my results in support of a few new innovations to this platform, and I can't wait to hear the reviews on yours... if your man enough.

Look, you are the one that somehow turned my point of agreeing with the OP that people need to stop complaining and enjoy what they have or do something about it, into somehow being a point about my credibility. By complaining about it, you are the very definition of all talk. I am more that comfortable in my understanding of the problem and the approach needed to resolve it. You are great at googling drag times and videos, we each have our skills! But enough is enough. If you have any ideas on how to improve this problem I am all ears. If you need help, I'm here. If I solve it, you will be the first on my list to help. Until then...no more complainey talk!

notatroll

Oh my! How did I miss this thread?!
Listen, for a stock car its awesome. Even though it falls behind m5/m6 from a roll. But the problem is when an m5 with good street tires can pull on the awd e63 from dig. Doesnt matter what tires you have on the e63 lol. I dont consider tires to be a modification. They get replaced every 5k miles.
I still stand behind what I said. This car was put together "quickly". Dont take that as a fact. Its totally a conspiracy.
Also I agree with everything GASPAM said.
We are far behind M guys when it comes to tuning.
M5 is cheaper to tune and it delivers better performance. Dont settle for LESS by paying MORE!!

notatroll

When the Mercedes ecu and tcu gets fully unlocked then we will be on par with M cars.

gaspam

lol man enough to type a review on the internet? ok i think i muster up the man juices to do that lol

and no bro, you are the one that approached this thread first saying anyone that complains is an "asshat"... go see your post #23... i hadnt posted at all in this thread until after that.... I dont know who you were referring to as "asshats" but i dont do well with people bullying/insulting other people unless they started it (not saying it was directed at me, but even directed at other people it bothers me)....

but hey, if you solve the lackluster launch our cars suffer, i can guarantee you I will be singing your praises and telling you "awesome job, finally someone solved it!" ....

that's what im talking about, I think its an awesome engine with so much untapped potential and its being let down by one thing (at least in my eyes)...

KLR CLS

Nobody ever said the M5 isn't more tunable at this point. Though for years that wasn't the case. Flash tuning and JB4+BMS are a recent development ie less that 24 months. Before that tuned M157s mopped the floor. Things always change. The point is complaining without doing something about it is useless. Moving to another car like F10/12 is a great option if you are unhappy. Go right ahead. The have their own reliability concerns that need be addressed, but nothing money and time can't fix. .but stop with the nonsense rehashed posts.

notatroll

+1