Open challenge to Weistec W4
05-21-2018, 03:14 AM
#51
MBWorld Fanatic!
I wish our cars responded like Audis do! I’m done with trying to get past AMG encryption, an RS will likely be my next sedan.
06-30-2018, 02:07 AM
#52
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I ran 5 psi more (1000hp tune). DA about 3300. Picked up some power but traction was terrible. The track felt slipperier than when I ran 10.48. I gained trap speed despite worse DA.
If any e63 is truly making 1000 horsepower it should be able to run 140+ mph trap.
I left the traction control on and that light keep blinking the first 1/8 mile. Next 1/8 mile felt like all hell broke loose.
I wanted to run a few more times and try to improve the first half of my run with different traction control settings but I got pulled over by the staff at the track - they told me "you CANNOT run that fast". So I didn't do any more runs.
For reference two other cars who ran at the track today:
stock mclaren 570s ran a best of 11.2 at 130mph
Stock 2018 e63 ran 11.5 at 122.
Last edited by e65; 06-30-2018 at 02:12 AM.
06-30-2018, 09:57 AM
#53
Seriously mad props for these runs. You have actually put down a solid 10.4 et on 78xrwhp and 140mph on 850plus rwhp. There is no doubt your car is capable of outrunning 9 second cars.
I do understand the issue with a fixed split torque holding the car back on the low end. But your explanation about gearing is more important than most are giving it credit for.
IMO the gearing issue in the quarter mile has a bigger impact on the car's ability to run low 10s/high 9s than even TCU nannies. A w212 with ZERO TCU control will still not run 9s with the gearing setup the way it is stock. Changing out the diff ratio will be required regardless of launch.
This type of reasoning is why back in the day I would drop half a second or more with zero power added to muscle cars simply by changing rear diff ratio
I do understand the issue with a fixed split torque holding the car back on the low end. But your explanation about gearing is more important than most are giving it credit for.
IMO the gearing issue in the quarter mile has a bigger impact on the car's ability to run low 10s/high 9s than even TCU nannies. A w212 with ZERO TCU control will still not run 9s with the gearing setup the way it is stock. Changing out the diff ratio will be required regardless of launch.
This type of reasoning is why back in the day I would drop half a second or more with zero power added to muscle cars simply by changing rear diff ratio
06-30-2018, 10:39 AM
#54
MBWorld Fanatic!
...IMO the gearing issue in the quarter mile has a bigger impact on the car's ability to run low 10s/high 9s than even TCU nannies. A w212 with ZERO TCU control will still not run 9s with the gearing setup the way it is stock. Changing out the diff ratio will be required regardless of launch.
This type of reasoning is why back in the day I would drop half a second or more with zero power added to muscle cars simply by changing rear diff ratio
This type of reasoning is why back in the day I would drop half a second or more with zero power added to muscle cars simply by changing rear diff ratio
06-30-2018, 02:17 PM
#55
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I understand your point from my muscle car background but coming more recently from W211s I’ll have to disagree with your rear diff gearing theory. We had 2.65 in that rear end but still pulled 60ft times in the 1.5s. These cars have much more power than the E55 ever did but the TCU won’t let us put it through the tranny until well past the launch and out of early gears.
The only way for me to know if the TCU is holding me back would be to try drag radials. That eliminates tire slip from the equation and any power cut after that is either the driveline or TCU.
06-30-2018, 03:01 PM
#56
I understand your point from my muscle car background but coming more recently from W211s I’ll have to disagree with your rear diff gearing theory. We had 2.65 in that rear end but still pulled 60ft times in the 1.5s. These cars have much more power than the E55 ever did but the TCU won’t let us put it through the tranny until well past the launch and out of early gears.
06-30-2018, 03:21 PM
#57
MBWorld Fanatic!
the differential gear ratio affects at the top end also. A lower differential ratio eg 2.x would allow me to finish at the top of 4th gear. Instead of finishing in 5th gear. Whatever power-level you you're running you want to finish near redline.
The only way for me to know if the TCU is holding me back would be to try drag radials. That eliminates tire slip from the equation and any power cut after that is either the driveline or TCU.
The only way for me to know if the TCU is holding me back would be to try drag radials. That eliminates tire slip from the equation and any power cut after that is either the driveline or TCU.
06-30-2018, 03:24 PM
#58
MBWorld Fanatic!
Are there any big hp cars cutting 1.6s? Keep in mind the TCU is not just limiting launch but also power in lower gears and during gear changes. Get rid of that combination and maybe our cars would run 1/4mile times that these power levels should easily provide.
06-30-2018, 04:17 PM
#59
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I understand gearing and you would actually need a higher gear ratio if you wanted to stay in 4th instead of finishing in 5th...and that would hurt your launch even further. Drag radials also won’t give you the information you need. Torque is not being managed by the TCU due to tire slip, it’s being limited at launch, in lower gears, and during shifts to protect hardware, regardless of what traction issues are going on after the transmission. We’ll likely never know what this trans can hold at launch since no tuners can actually remove (reduce) the limiters in our TCU. The number of cars that have been able to dip into the 1.6 60ft times are the only ones running 1/4mile times somewhat resembling their dyno power levels, and those cars can be counted on one hand.
The power is cutting abruptly multiple times in the first two gears not just at launch. But there is a GAD C63 with 4matic that ran 9.5 with a 1.5 60 foot. He has same TCU as me, but lighter car and drag radials and bigger turbos.
06-30-2018, 04:35 PM
#60
MBWorld Fanatic!
I think you’ve got lower/shorter and higher/taller gearing mixed up but either way it seems pointless to compare the GAD C63 when there are two GAD E63s that have well over 1k hp and still can’t get out of the 10s because they can’t launch. If the C63 TCU allowed for a reduction of tq limitations and was the same as or interchangeable with the E63 TCU, people would be lining up and paying good money to swap them.
06-30-2018, 05:03 PM
#61
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I have GAD E63. He has GAD c63 with identical engine, transmission, and 4matic driveline transplanted. I dont think GAD would have programmed my TCU differently than his? I will ask them
06-30-2018, 05:09 PM
#62
MBWorld Fanatic!
I wouldn’t think so either which is what makes me think there’s a TCU difference between platforms. I’m very frustrated that we can’t launch our E63s so I apologize because I know I come off very bitter!
06-30-2018, 08:43 PM
#64
MBWorld Fanatic!
Spun an axle in my E55. It’s part of the game and if it’s my car then I should have access to break parts if I want to. It sucks that we can’t even compete with those Audis. Both RS7s and RS3s are in the 9s with simple bolt-ons.
Last edited by chiromikey; 06-30-2018 at 08:49 PM.
06-30-2018, 09:27 PM
#65
So TCU nannies, fixed split awd, gearing, and weight will all keep the E from 9s without major work
The following users liked this post:
jvakos (07-01-2018)
07-03-2018, 08:33 AM
#66
you got the power to take you there it’s just few tweeks for it to happen dyno mood and a heavy foot not to worry about breaking stuff if you want to break anything break the 10’s
07-03-2018, 04:47 PM
#67
Bro C63 has a lower gear ratio than the E63, but that wouldn’t change much in you 60’ I would say give your car a diet some better tire grip and you will be in the 1.6 and hopefully in the 9’s
you got the power to take you there it’s just few tweeks for it to happen dyno mood and a heavy foot not to worry about breaking stuff if you want to break anything break the 10’s
07-03-2018, 05:32 PM
#68
07-03-2018, 06:47 PM
#69
I am guessing it was a numerically higher gear on the C63 which will mean you will be higher up in the rpm range in 5th at the end of the quarter
07-03-2018, 07:20 PM
#70
07-03-2018, 08:50 PM
#71
no I have the same rpm as the E63 does it’s just a shorter axle ratio I ran mid 9’s and a very high trap cuz my car is 400kg lighter than an E class it helps your 60’ dramatically that’s why I said he must try to get some weight off it will help the 60’ and eventually a lower ET
The E and the C both have 3.06 final drive ratios so leaving the stock C63 diff changes nothing (unless the E is a 2.82 but I am not completely sure, too many different reports online)
Last edited by kponti; 07-03-2018 at 08:59 PM.
07-05-2018, 05:57 PM
#72
I agree less weight will help the issue a lot. However at his power levels, according to his track experiences, he is shifting into 5th at a lower than desired rpm to cross the line.
The E and the C both have 3.06 final drive ratios so leaving the stock C63 diff changes nothing (unless the E is a 2.82 but I am not completely sure, too many different reports online)
The E and the C both have 3.06 final drive ratios so leaving the stock C63 diff changes nothing (unless the E is a 2.82 but I am not completely sure, too many different reports online)
I don’t know the exact ratios but you should know the C is a black series and I think that’s different from the normal C63
07-05-2018, 10:27 PM
#74
MBWorld Fanatic!
