Brand New Motor from MB!! Thank You Very Much
12-05-2018, 12:37 PM
#76
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Lol! Ok bud. You are telling me what dealers are worried about?? If you only had any idea what you are talking about. Let me make one thing clear: dealers dont give a sh#t about you or your car and try to screw you. It literally has nothing to do with trying to deny your warranty . The fact is, the only thing dealers care about is if they will get reimbursed by Mercedes for the cost of your warranty repair . If Mercedes thinks the engine should not have been replaced on their dime because of having an aftermarket tune or performance parts then they just deny the claim and leave the dealership to absorb that masive cost. Doesn't matter if it's 6 months down the road. Not only will that get the service manager in trouble with Mercedes, it will most likely get the poor technician in trouble too. If you think you can hide having a second ecu for your car, you are sadly mistaken. This warranty claim slipped through the cracks. The most important thing people need to understand is it doesn't matter if you "think" a tune can cause cylinder wall scores or literally any other damage. The FACT is, when you have a tune, you are pushing every component on that engine beyond what Mercedes designed it to operate at. Doesn't matter what anyone else has done successfully or not. All that matters is you are operating everything past what mercedes decided it was safe to limit it to. When that happens their is extra heat, extra expansion to components, extra stress. That extra stress and heat could have definitely contributed to internal wear. I have 18 years exp as a master lead technician for mercedes. I've worked at 4 different dealers. Trust me when I say you are pushing your luck. 2015 and newer mercedes have the ability to remotely run a test any car with Mbrace/Hermes control units. In that remote test which you will never know is happening is all the ecu coding/software calibration numbers. If they run the test and check those numbers with any ecu that does not match what came from the factory..... goodbye warranty instantly. People need to understand, if you have a tune and something happens be prepared to pay. Not because the dealership wants to screw you but because your car is not worth losing a job over, sorry.
Thanks
12-05-2018, 01:53 PM
#77
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Oh, and BTW, my warranty is up 2 months anyway. So any remote checks and such of the ECU that you mention aren't really a risk as I likely wouldn't modify a thing anyway before then and especially not while I am breaking in the new motor.
Since we are on the subject, I'm curious what you believe the risks are for all of the guys with the UPD intake spacers with higher flow filters. Will they get flagged if a tech finds this on their cars at a service?
Since we are on the subject, I'm curious what you believe the risks are for all of the guys with the UPD intake spacers with higher flow filters. Will they get flagged if a tech finds this on their cars at a service?
12-05-2018, 02:29 PM
#78
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Earth
Posts: 272
Received 78 Likes
on
50 Posts
C63 W204 / E63S W212 / E63S W212
I had a C63 that was tuned and i was not aware of it until i took it past the 174mph limiter (p31 package). Before that i had taken it to the dealer many times for various issues, one of which included them reviewing the ECU parameters due to the car being jerky at certains speeds once in a while.
12-05-2018, 02:55 PM
#79
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,183
Received 171 Likes
on
119 Posts
E63 SL55 996TT C5Z06
The fact that you have posted on a forum about your damaged engine that you have a tuned ECU and a factory ecu is extremely stupid. You are beyond lucky Mercedes covered that engine. Normally they look for signs of modifications. You must have slipped through the cracks. Seriously stop posting about it because Id be willing to bet you will have a status 6 or 8 on your vmi the second Mercedes sees any of this. And trust me they will, techs see these boards all the time. All it takes is one email with a link or screenshots to a field tech and within an hour, you will have to get special authorization from high up to do ANY warranty work on your car. You are pushing your luck. Just trying to help you. I've seen it happen. A lot.
12-05-2018, 03:19 PM
#80
Senior Member
Oh, and BTW, my warranty is up 2 months anyway. So any remote checks and such of the ECU that you mention aren't really a risk as I likely wouldn't modify a thing anyway before then and especially not while I am breaking in the new motor.
Since we are on the subject, I'm curious what you believe the risks are for all of the guys with the UPD intake spacers with higher flow filters. Will they get flagged if a tech finds this on their cars at a service?
Since we are on the subject, I'm curious what you believe the risks are for all of the guys with the UPD intake spacers with higher flow filters. Will they get flagged if a tech finds this on their cars at a service?
12-05-2018, 04:28 PM
#81
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Like anything automotive it's all up to the tech / service writer. Why flag a good customers car? Why void a warranty for a filter? These types of thing happen across all brands but it's inconsistent at best. Reality is, if you are a decent person with a "regular" car you can get away with a bit more. If you show up like Ken Block drifting into the dealer? Well you may not get lucky. What we will see is a further lock down on future models (ecu's) to prevent modification.
12-05-2018, 04:34 PM
#82
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,183
Received 171 Likes
on
119 Posts
E63 SL55 996TT C5Z06
Like anything automotive it's all up to the tech / service writer. Why flag a good customers car? Why void a warranty for a filter? These types of thing happen across all brands but it's inconsistent at best. Reality is, if you are a decent person with a "regular" car you can get away with a bit more. If you show up like Ken Block drifting into the dealer? Well you may not get lucky. What we will see is a further lock down on future models (ecu's) to prevent modification.
12-05-2018, 05:50 PM
#84
Member
LOL.....good one!
12-05-2018, 09:38 PM
#85
Oh, and BTW, my warranty is up 2 months anyway. So any remote checks and such of the ECU that you mention aren't really a risk as I likely wouldn't modify a thing anyway before then and especially not while I am breaking in the new motor.
Since we are on the subject, I'm curious what you believe the risks are for all of the guys with the UPD intake spacers with higher flow filters. Will they get flagged if a tech finds this on their cars at a service?
Since we are on the subject, I'm curious what you believe the risks are for all of the guys with the UPD intake spacers with higher flow filters. Will they get flagged if a tech finds this on their cars at a service?
Last edited by mbmastertech; 12-05-2018 at 09:55 PM.
12-05-2018, 10:19 PM
#86
On the topic of tunes/modifications, if I had to rate the best companies that will keep you away from major problems: AMS performance is definitely the best. They go way deeper into the ecu than anyone else that I've seen. They don't just raise the boost and torque limits, they actually change things like the intercooler pump parameters, and safety/limp mode operations and triggers. Eurocharged is great too. Renntech is absolutely terrible. I've actually flashed out countless tunes from them because of horrible driveability problems, they almost never make the power they say it should. I've seen more than one e63s pulling timing because of 180F charge air temps. Horrible horrible horrible!
The following users liked this post:
AMG140.6 (07-10-2020)
12-06-2018, 12:10 AM
#87
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,183
Received 171 Likes
on
119 Posts
E63 SL55 996TT C5Z06
Having the intake spacers will not void your warranty most of the time, but what it will do is throw a red flag to the guy working on it if there is any odd driveability problem happening. Techs are also required to inform the tech specialist about it if the dealer needs help figuring out whats going on with the car. Mercedes would start digging deeper into what's been done to your car. Any Mercedes dealer can run a VIN and tell you if there is a status on that vehicle. They are basically there to tell the writers/techs that in order to complete any warranty repair, the dealer is required have a technical case made on every visit, and every potential repair will not be paid unless its approved by a Mercedes representative and a tech specialist from mercedes. Last thing: if you do have mods on your car it's always better to be upfront about it to the writers and the tech. Nobody is activity looking to flag vins. The only time these things happen is when a major component breaks. As in the engine/trans or driveline. If you tell them upfront what will most likely happen is they will have the guy in the shop thats into that kind of stuff work on your car and only him everytime. Every dealer has a few of those techs and honestly they are usually the more knowledgeable guys. It's never a bad idea to establish a good relationship with a tech that you feel comfortable with touching your car. Every dealer has an ******* tech that only cares about himself. Every dealer also has a few techs that have a passion for what they do and love everything about cars and always do the right thing. So find that guy at whatever dealer you go to. Most of the time the writers can choose who your car goes to. So just ask them who the best guy is and always ask for him when you are there.
For example - you visit the dealer due to a flat tire and after swapping the tire they do a full inspection and they see different filters and choose to “flag” your car without mentioning to the owner that they did that. That same dealer quickly becomes a hipocrate by pushing their in house tune to sell that they say is fully warrantied which if you don’t buy they happily “flag” your car for having the after market filters. I’ve heard other owners have had this happen with MB and if that’s the customer experience at the dealer level then I would be very suspect of ever buying a MB again if true.
12-06-2018, 12:36 AM
#88
this is interesting - really appreciate your candid feedback. Are there cases where some MB foreman decides to flag your car just for aftermarket intake filters? If so, how does an owner who doesnt know that would cause a “flagged” status reverse the “flagged” status if they remove the filters?
For example - you visit the dealer due to a flat tire and after swapping the tire they do a full inspection and they see different filters and choose to “flag” your car without mentioning to the owner that they did that. That same dealer quickly becomes a hipocrate by pushing their in house tune to sell that they say is fully warrantied which if you don’t buy they happily “flag” your car for having the after market filters. I’ve heard other owners have had this happen with MB and if that’s the customer experience at the dealer level then I would be very suspect of ever buying a MB again if true.
12-06-2018, 12:49 AM
#89
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,183
Received 171 Likes
on
119 Posts
E63 SL55 996TT C5Z06
In that situation you wouldn't have your Vin flagged. If you were to have a low boost problem that needed a technical assistance case made where a tech specialist came out to help figure out your car and the end result was the turbo failed due to the impeller wheel being chewed up from foreign debris, the tech specialist would see the filters and spacers and conclude the higher flow (less filtered) air filters let larger particles through the filter that destroyed the turbo. Your car would then have a status put on the Vin and you would be responsible for the cost of repairs needed. I'm not sure I've seen a status be reversed, I don't think they remove them. Most importantly, there are NO tunes, even "in house" tunes that are covered under warranty. Literally none. Renntech likes to say that mercedes covers problems with their stuff... absolutely not the case. If anyone tells you that any tune is good with warranty they are lying. If your car has a status put on the Vin, the dealer will tell you. 99% of the time it's actually not the dealer who puts the status on the cars, it's actually engineering/Mercedes reps/ tech specialists. Hopefully that answers your question.
https://www.mercedesbenzchicago.com/...rmance-tuning/
An example - how could this dealer promote “warrantied” tumes consider to flag a car for aftermarket filters which I heard has happened??
12-06-2018, 01:04 AM
#90
Appreciate the honest feedback....so if a MB dealer offers in house “warrantied” tunes is that some type of violation at the dealer level and BS? Here’s an example of a dealer offering fully warrantied in house tune
https://www.mercedesbenzchicago.com/...rmance-tuning/
An example - how could this dealer promote “warrantied” tumes consider to flag a car for aftermarket filters which I heard has happened??
Last edited by mbmastertech; 12-06-2018 at 01:08 AM.
12-06-2018, 07:04 PM
#92
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,845
Received 2,076 Likes
on
1,449 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
Hahaha, yeah that's total bs. The only thing they could do is either lie to mercedes and just push warranty work through which is a HUGE violation. Or that dealer might pay for the repair out of their own pocket. But that is pretty bad they offer that. And again it's 99% of the time not the dealer who flags the Vin. It's Mercedes. So they are probably doing some bad things, I would bet if they received an audit from Mercedes that "in house" tune would no longer be available. It also doesn't state anything about retaining the factory warranty. I would be very very cautious about who and how they are tuning those cars. It's most likely a third party
as a tech you must see some tuned m157's that's do well and don't have major issues
Last edited by PeterUbers; 12-06-2018 at 07:07 PM.
12-06-2018, 10:25 PM
#93
Member
Appreciate the honest feedback....so if a MB dealer offers in house “warrantied” tunes is that some type of violation at the dealer level and BS? Here’s an example of a dealer offering fully warrantied in house tune
https://www.mercedesbenzchicago.com/...rmance-tuning/
An example - how could this dealer promote “warrantied” tumes consider to flag a car for aftermarket filters which I heard has happened??
It doesn't say anything about retaining warranty coverage on the page you linked.
12-06-2018, 11:49 PM
#94
Yes, most tuned m157's don't have issues. If I owned a m157 engine car it would have a tune on it the day after I bought it. They are just too much fun. I would also probably lose my license shortly after that.
12-07-2018, 10:54 AM
#95
Member
Haha..I hear you there. I am going with AMS as I have heard great things about them...
12-07-2018, 11:46 AM
#96
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
The following users liked this post:
thxrick (12-07-2018)
12-07-2018, 12:07 PM
#97
Super Member
On the topic of tunes/modifications, if I had to rate the best companies that will keep you away from major problems: AMS performance is definitely the best. They go way deeper into the ecu than anyone else that I've seen. They don't just raise the boost and torque limits, they actually change things like the intercooler pump parameters, and safety/limp mode operations and triggers. Eurocharged is great too. Renntech is absolutely terrible. I've actually flashed out countless tunes from them because of horrible driveability problems, they almost never make the power they say it should. I've seen more than one e63s pulling timing because of 180F charge air temps. Horrible horrible horrible!
Xentry is so neutered these days you can't see 1/2 the **** you need to properly diagnose a car efficiently, let alone see "intercooler pump parameters, and safety/limp mode operations and triggers" lol
12-07-2018, 06:36 PM
#98
Because Ive had a few conversations with Martin the owner/tuner for ams. He developed the tune for the m157's when they first came out. Took him almost 12 months of tweaks to the tune to get it where it is today. I had two different renntech e63s' that had high intake air temp problems and I discussed my findings with him and asked if they have seen on the Dyno what I was noticing through xentry. That's when he told me in detail what they change in their m157 tunes. I then talked to renntech about these problems with their tunes, they told me they will look into it. Never heard anything back from them. I also tried duplicating the same problem with an Ams tuned e63s and I couldn't get the intake air temps to skyrocket like I was consistently able to with the renntech e63s.
12-07-2018, 06:44 PM
#99
If you look up group 07 in WIS, their is a function description of the engine control unit. In that link you can scroll down to charge air temp regulation or something related to that (can't remember the exact wording) in there is a description of the intercooler circuit and the temps that will trigger the intercooler pump to turn on and what temps the ecu turns it back off at. Lots of good info.
The following users liked this post:
thxrick (12-07-2018)
12-07-2018, 08:49 PM
#100
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Because Ive had a few conversations with Martin the owner/tuner for ams. He developed the tune for the m157's when they first came out. Took him almost 12 months of tweaks to the tune to get it where it is today. I had two different renntech e63s' that had high intake air temp problems and I discussed my findings with him and asked if they have seen on the Dyno what I was noticing through xentry. That's when he told me in detail what they change in their m157 tunes. I then talked to renntech about these problems with their tunes, they told me they will look into it. Never heard anything back from them. I also tried duplicating the same problem with an Ams tuned e63s and I couldn't get the intake air temps to skyrocket like I was consistently able to with the renntech e63s.
