cosmicclubber

Hi everyone.
'Hope everyone has had a Merry Christmas!
I know this is the W212 forum but the CLS forums can be deserted sometimes. I needed advice about this problem.

I have a 2011 W218 CLS63 (M157 engine) with 147000km on the clock. Has been running extremely well for the past 3 years of owning it. Modified with Weistec Turbopipe, Downpipe and Midpipe, PP-Performance Tune and AFe Air FIlters. 6 months ago I changed the spark plugs on the car to NGK SILZKBR8D8S (colder plugs) and have had no issues with the car driving beautifully. Only issue was the car would have to turnover for 2 seconds before starting rather than the usual rapid start when you press the Start Button and I thought nothing of that because everything was running fine.

1 week ago I noticed a rough idle issue driving back from work in the afternoon. Drove to work the next morning and it was even rougher. So I decided at middday to take it to a mechanic nearby and on the way there the car started shaking and the RPM would jump to 3000 every few seconds at idle and the car was lacking power. Barely got to the mechanic. He used a OBD reader and said cylinder 5, 7, and 8 were misfiring due to ignition coil issues. But when he cleared the error codes the car went back to normal. So he asked me to buy the coils and change them. Drove off and 5 minutes later the car did the same thing. Very rough and erratic idling. So I called Mercedes Spare Parts. they only had 1 ignition coil in all of sydney. Decided to call spare parts shops who told me the BREMI 2721500280 Ignitions Coil was compatible with my VIN number, Bought 8 coils and installed them that afternoon, easy job and took 1 hour. The car would start and immediately shutdown so I reckon the parts are not compatible. I checked for error codes with the OBD reader with the new coils and here is the list of codes:




So decided to replace the old ignition coils back in place. I did not make a note of the ignition coils for cylinders 5, 7 and 8 so they all got mixed up. And so when I replaced them the car started again with a slight rough idle and I thought it would last long enough to get genuine mercedes ignition coils. The next evening (night as I finished work at 130am) in my workplace carpark the car had an erratic and very rough idle again and was struggling to move off the line. Attached is the video of the incident.

As soon as I switched the car off, it would start momentarily with that violent sound and then shutdown. so I read the error codes again and this time Cylinders 1,2,3 and 4 were misfiring instead. The error codes are as below:



At this stage my car is stuck in a tight multi-storey carpark at my workplace. I called roadside assistance who couldnt help other than push me into a bay and said no tow truck could get in to take the car out. So I decided to buy genuine ignition coils still believing that was the problem and install it myself ($1400) already. Mercedes had not got 3 in stock. Bought them on Monday and installed them Tuesday night after i finished work on Christmas Day at 10pm. Seeing as Cylinders 1,2,3,4 were misfiring, I decided to change cylinders 1,2,4 ignition coils. Same issue, same errors which is now confusing. I then decided to swap the old ignition coils which are working in cylinder 5,6,7,8 to cylinders 1,2,3,4 and put the new coils in cylinders 5,6,7. I assumed if the problem with with ignition coils that once I swapped the 2 sides of the engine the problem would move to the other side. Same problem, rough start, erratic idling and dies down quickly.




I am baffled now. Above are the last error codes. It is between christmas and new years, my regular mechanic is away and I am in desperate need of the car for work purposes. I will have to hire a car in the interim but I need advice as to whether anyone has experienced the same issue or if anyone has any suggestions.

I finally managed to push it down the carpark ramp to ground floor and used a friend's car to tow it onto the street so a tow truck could get it loaded and it is now sitting in my driveway.

I am thinking camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor or both next. I can work on it myself for now.
But I am worried about the timing chain being off now as well. And to be honest I am now anticipating major damage to the engine which is a disaster. I guess this is what happens when you own a high km AMG.

I am desperate and need any and all the advice possible. Please let me know if you have any suggestions.

Much appreciated.

e65

I'm using oem spark plugs with ++++ mods and plenty of 1/4 miles. The colder plugs might foul. I would examine perhaps replace spark plugs with oem.

S63AMG888

iTrader: (3)

Forrest Gump 9

kponti

this is an easy test and cheap to fix. Unplug those sensors and see if they are full of oil

Also unplug the ECU and make sure there is no oil in the harness at the ECU level

cocobeex

I am wondering, where is all these oil coming from ? Oil leaks ?

thanks

kponti

the sensor has a rubber grommet and some other rubber components that are supposed to allow the sensor to dip into oil but seal the electronics from oil.
Those seals breakdown typically in 30 to 40k miles (the original part numbers that is).
When they break down and leak, the oil seeps along the wires from the sensors all the way to the main harness and with time makes it's way to the main ECU.

New sensors have new seals. The hope is the new part numbers have better seals.

V-AMG

cosmicclubber

Unfortunately Mercedes in Sydney are shut over the new years period and they couldn't even get me spare parts because they have none available in Sydney!
I took out the camshaft sensors and there's a tiny bit of oil in 1 out of 4 sensors. Not substantial enough to think it'll cause a significant problem but we will see. Luckily no oil in the ECU harness.
So I have ordered the camshaft sensors / crankshaft sensors and 5 more ignition coils from FCPEuro. Hoping once I install them the car starts again.
Otherwise I am in for a very expensive bill if its the injectors or fuel pump or if the timing chain has skipped and is now out of alignment.
This is my only car and daily driver so it's irritating this happened around this time of the year.
Thank you all for the suggestions. I will post back once there's some progress.

V-AMG

cosmicclubber

Had a mate of mine who works on beamers listen to the rattling on the engine. Tells me the engine is toast. Dunno if anyone heard the sound on the video. He tells me the timing chain is off but the valves are gonna be damaged as well.
Being the optimistic type I am ignoring his diagnostic advice as its a hobby working on cars for him. But I really hope the engine isn't toast. That would be beyond devastating!
In the meantime, waiting for the parts to arrive all the way from the US to Australia and I'll swap them in, If changing the spark plugs, ignition coils, camshaft sensors and crankshaft sensor doesn't fix it, then I'm resigned to taking it in for some bad news and hefty bill.
Gotta stay optimistic!
Thanks for all the suggestions and advice so far.

danclements

Allen at International Autohaus in Marrickville is excellent if you want a second opinion. I have a CEL for a faulty conductor plate at the moment and am in the same boat as you. Everything shut and daily driver. Good luck with it.

cosmicclubber

So the ignition coils change and the camshaft sensor change has not fixed the problem
Thanks to suggestion from danclements
Car was towed to a mechanic in Sydney (International Autohaus in Marrickville)
Waiting for them to open timing cover
But most likely stretched timing chain or cam sprochet problem etc
The mechanic tells me it's not an easy fix and if the valves have contacted the pistons they're bent it will sting in terms of price
Crossing fingers hoping it ain't worst case scenario which I have been informed might even be having to replace the engine
What a nightmare this ordeal has become!

danclements

Keep us posted, mate and best of luck with it. What you're experiencing is rare by all accounts, so don't think that this is "what you get for an older AMG". It's just very unfortunate.

Maverick1975

danclements

Any update on your engine dramas, mate? I spoke to the shop earlier in the week on something unrelated and wanted to ask about your CLS.

cosmicclubber

ALL M157 OWNERS BEWARE: ALL 2011-2013 M157 OWNERS NEED TO HAVE A TIMING CHAIN MECHANISM SERVICE/UPGRADE TO UPDATED COMPONENTS TO AVOID CATASTROPHIC TOP-END FAILURE OF ENGINE. DO NOT DELAY IT
- MULTIPLE FAILURES IN THESE ENGINES DUE TO MERCEDES MANUFACTURING DEFECT, YET MERCEDES DOES NOT WARN YOU ABOUT IT AND WHEN I HAD MY 100,000KM SERVICE, NOBODY FLAGGED THE ISSUE.
- AVOID A VERY EXPENSIVE REPAIR BILL BY SORTING THIS OUT EARLY BEFORE IT FAILS.

Mine started with taking longer to crank many months back. Then it catastrophically failed.

Here is the ordeal I've gone through in the past 4 weeks.

I finally got my car towed to International Autohaus in Marrickville after speaking to Allen about the problem. He seemed knowledgeable and gave me a sense of security that the car would be sorted out properly. He said he needed to review it to diagnose the problem and it may need a new engine which might cost 20grand. But hopefully it's a camshaft sprocket issue and no bent valves.

After attempting to open the timing chain case, he said it had jammed and the chain was not allowing access to the engine without dropping it out of the car. He quoted me AUD$5000 for parts and labour for timing chain issue and asked me if it was ok to proceed. 6 days later, I got a call saying the engine was dropped and after opening the casing, he found the chain stretched and jammed, the cylinder heads were scored and the pistons dented slightly. All the intake valves were bent and the bit at the end of the camshaft was loose and out of sync.

Turns out after the timing mechanism failed, the pistons collided with the valves and bent them all and damaged the cylinder heads. Luckily, the bottom end appears to be ok.

So I have now been quoted AUD$20,000 for the repair: resurfacing the cylinder heads, replacing the valves and seals, fixing the camshaft issue; AUD$15,000 for parts and AUD$5000 for labour.

I proceeded to look up the cost of all the parts individually from American website mboemparts.com, and it definitely does not add up to that price for the individual parts. Even if I buy BRAND NEW cylinder heads, valves, pistons and all the seals, it only just adds up to that price. He was not replacing the cylinder head or the pistons.

Now my engine is in 100 pieces, I called the mechanic and asked if I could supply the parts and he did the repair job. He initially refused due to time issue on parts arriving, then he admitted eventually after explaining that I cannot afford to dump that much cash on a repair job and hence I need to source the parts, the fact that he is making money on the parts and he is not willing to just do the job for the labour cost.

He is wrapping the engine parts in boxes and has requested I take my engine away somewhere else to get repaired as he is not dropping his price under any circumstance.

I don't know how much it costs to do a top end service, but I know that $20,000 is seriously excessive, especially as he is not touching the bottom end.

SO ANYONE WITH THE OLDER M157 BEWARE OF STRETCHING TIMING CHAIN ISSUE CAUSING CATASTROPHIC ENGINE DAMAGE. FIND OUT IF YOUR ENGINE HAS THE OLDER OR UPDATED TIMING CHAIN BEFORE IT FAILS.

I AM NOW STUCK. I have no idea how to proceed. The car is gonna end up back in the driveway without an engine, and I reckon the engine in boxes which I will receive won't be in the same condition it went into the mechanic as they won't take any care in handling and wrapping it when I take it away. I am even anticipating things to go missing, other parts to be damaged, and parts to be swapped for other faulty parts, I'll be none the wiser since I told them I can't afford their fees and they are overcharging me.

I was told by multiple mechanics that since the engine is opened, they are reluctant to take the job on. Nobody wants to touch it. I don't know how to fix it. And I don't want to give into plain extortion from this mechanic since I feel like that price for parts is significantly marked up based on my research. My options are to find someone to fix it and I source the parts, or buy a second hand engine which would be AUD$23,000 for a used engine with 90,000km on the clock. New engines from Mercedes in Sydney cost AUD$110,000. Overseas engines cost USD$50,000 minimum excluding the customs and shipping costs. My budget is limited and I cannot afford a brand new engine. And even second hand engines are out of the budget at that price. I bought this car for a cheap price when it had 100,000km on the clock when it was 4 years old. 50,000kms now the car is 8 years old and it's not worth spending extravagant amounts of money on it. Having the car out of action for 4 weeks has become very depressing. I have had to borrow a car from friends who travellled overseas but now driving a hire car which also costs a fortune. I need to find a solution soon. I can't see an end to this problem right now.

I need an opinion from the community as to how to proceed. Attached are photos of the damage. You can see the bent intake valves and the dented pistons. How would you all proceed if you were in my shoes? I am open to any suggestions that might salvage this desperate situation.
Also, do I need to worry about the piston dents? The mechanic said he wouldn't replace the pistons. Is that advisable?


Dented pistons

Dented pistons

Dented pistons

Bent valves

Dented pistons

danclements

https://www.instagram.com/p/BqN_t2rD2YX/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=on8zxx6gkyex

This the second hand one you mentioned?

amgboy916

gonna paste my response from the w218 thread perhaps may help some



I'm worried because I have codes P0017 and P0018 I didnt see that listed on yours but I am having the same symptom of crankling longer to start
ive been foolishly driving the car still in this conditon thinking it wasn't serious but now I'll stop for sure until its fixed. thinking I may have to go to the stealership for the diagnosis to be sure.
but I'm hoping im not at the point of catastrophic failure as I havent had any of your other symptoms or codes. hoping for a simple fix


although I havent experienced any timing change rattle or noise at all

heres an excerpt from another thread that may help some.


Engine 157:
1) From engine number 157 9xx 60 009368 up to engine number 157 9xx 60 017984 install check valves and chain tensioners

2) From engine number 157 9xx 60 017985 up to engine number 157 9xx 60 022333 (December 2012) install check valves (optimized tensioners installed in this production range)

Note:
When performing repairs and only the check valves are supposed to be installed, the tensioners must still be checked according to WIS documentation. If optimized tensioner is found to be defective it must be replaced

Note:
Check valves were installed in the factory in the engines above the ranges provided above. In case of 157 engines either A 278 050 40 00 or A 278 050 33 00 check valves were installed. In engines 276 and 278 check valves A 278 050 33 00 were installed. It is important to measure the oil supply opening in cylinder heads to install correct check valve.

My engine number is 028822 - from the notes above, it seems that the 'optimised tensioner' installed at the factory was defective as it was replaced. The check valve was also added according to the dealer, so it was either missing or the spec had changed?. Anway, the tensioner or the check valve can seemingly go bad and need to be replaced anyway.


also heres a pdf

file:///C:/Users/W1476020/Downloads/Rattling%20noise%20after%20engine%20start.pdf
__________________

try m3

Sorry to hear about this OP. The price for the top end rebuild seems very steep I would definitely take the car somewhere else. At this point you can source a lower mileage used motor and just drop it in but since your engine is already taken apart you can source your own parts and take the car to a reputable engine builder and save some money.

cocobeex

I am very sorry to hear that this happened!!!
And thank you for warning all M157 owners this situation has to be dealt with asap.

Out of my curiosity, How long does the car need to start up the engine ? 2 or 3 sec ? or longer ?

danclements

I didn't mean to sound insensitive before. I can only imagine how much this has upset you. Just take a deep breath and realise it could be worse. The car didn't fail and injure you or anyone else. You know what the fault is, you know what the fix is, so clear your head and work with that. In the short term, I'd look at getting a reliable run around to get you back on the road while you start planning your rebuild/repair. We get shafted in AU for costs, I know it all too well. Mechanics in general are all starting to ban customers from bringing their own parts, it's happening with mine here too. It's the only way they can make a buck. Keep your chin up and let us know how you progress, mate.