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E63 > RS7 early impressions

Old 01-09-2019, 02:45 AM
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E63 > RS7 early impressions

If you’ve been around here for even a short period of time you’ve probably come across a few threads with me complaining about certain aspects of the E63 and I probably should apologize for being a bit bitter...but I won’t apologize for being upset about what I feel are legitimate issues. The W212 was my 3rd AMG (two prior E55s) and the turbo platform was long awaited. The potential was going to be amazing. If a simple tune could get the biturbo to levels that it took a full bolt-on E55 to achieve, just imagine what could happen when we started to go FBO in the E63! And to top it off, AMG finally listened to a decade of us complaining about how slow the shifting was in their 5 speed automatic and gave us the MCT. They also listened to many complain (not me) about the airmatic system that was plagued with failures...well kind of I guess since they only got rid of half of it. So after seeing the initial tuning outcomes I eagerly jumped on board and planned on modding into a solid low 10 second daily driver. As we all know, besides the early tuner company claims of simple stage 2 cars running mid 10s, those claims were a bust. Stage 2s average around 11 flat and the money it takes to reach low 10s is astronomical! The tuning worlds lack of ability to crack the tq limiting software negated most any hardware thrown at it. Then came the MCT transmission with AMGs claims of millisecond shift times. What’s the point of having such lightning quick shifts if you have to cut most of the power to do it? It negates the whole purpose. And to have a luxury car that jerks so bad that your wife can’t even sip her Starbucks without fear of spilling it every time you approach or leave a stoplight is ridiculous! “Yes dear, I do know how to drive an automatic, why do you ask?” And with it’s adaptations, if your not constantly driving with the paddles, it’s almost never in the right gear, even in S+. Then we get to the suspension. Why only get rid of half the airmatic? Coming from previous gens, the ride became harsh. I don’t mind stiff but harsh is horrible. And the price honestly didn’t come with anywhere enough of a handling improvement to justify it. Our old GT-R was far more stiff but much less harsh. That harshness also came with another price. There were a lot more rattles and creaks in this car than I would ever expect out of even a low end luxury vehicle. I purposely avoided the pano roof because of the noises but at least I would have know where those noises were coming from!

With that said, I also need to point out that the E63 was utterly reliable. I put well over 100k miles on her, most stage 2 without ever worrying about anything. The exhaust note was probably one of the best V8s I’ve heard and that’s saying a lot considering it has turbos in between the motor and the exhaust tips!

So after enough complaining and several people telling me to move on already, I finally did. A 2016 RS7 is in the garage and since a few have asked, here are my initial thoughts. Now keep in mind, the RS7 is still stock so I’ll have to update the comparison after getting stage 2 installed.

Engine/power: I thought turbo lag was pretty minimal in the E63 in stock form and almost gone once the DPs and tune were installed but the RS7’s thrust is almost instant. Low end, the RS7 actually feels quicker than my Stage 2 E63 but without a tune and DPs the pull doesn’t continue like the E63. Stock to stock probably goes to the RS7 but stock power is really close.

Trans: not really a contest when we’re comparing a luxury sports sedan. The MCT with its jerky stop and go characteristics just doesn’t belong here imho. The ZF8 is smooth, shifts very fast for an auto, and you actually get thrown back during wot shifts. I never felt that with the AMG. Another thing, probably more software related than hardware, is that there was such a long delay between pulling the paddle and actually getting an upshift in the E63. That’s almost gone with the RS7. It’s not instantaneous but it’s significantly better. The one thing the MCT does much better than the ZF8 auto is the rev matching downshifts. It’s definitely the winner there, but that’s meaningless in the grand scheme of what you really need out of a transmission.

Suspension/handling: even though these cars are close in weight, the geometry is a bit different. The RS7s motor sits over the front wheels instead of behind them like the E63 so the front end does feel a bit more heavy. My RS7 does have the upgraded dynamic (coil) suspension instead of the standard air suspension. I was actually looking for air since it’s reported to be softer because I was so put off by the harshness of the E63. Surprisingly the Audi’s sport tuned suspension is still significantly more comfortable and less harsh, even in the stiffest setting. The comfort setting is much more fitting of a luxury sedan than the E63 and the dynamic setting is more stiff and sporty. I won’t go as far as to say yet that it handles better than the AMG but it is a step above so far, even if the feel is a bit more muted. Audi did a far better job here than AMG. Keep in mind, the Audi feels less harsh on 21” wheels compared to the AMGs 19s.

Engine sound: stock to stock goes to the RS7 but likely only because this one came equipped with the factory full titanium Akrapovic exhaust. Once the E63 went catless DPs and res delete it kills the Audi. After the RS7 gets the catless DPs I’ll update my opinion. One thing I’m not a fan of in the Audi is the electronically controlled valved exhaust. Actually, I’m ok with it because it is super quiet with the valves closed and sounds great with them open but without an option to let me manually open/close them I’m a bit put off. It’s strange to have the car getting quiet then loud at its own discretion.

Brakes: I had standard steel brakes in both and besides the Audi pedal feeling a bit softer initially, stopping power is a wash.

Aesthetics/style: probably too subjective and many will say the RS7 should be compared to the CLS anyways. Either way it took me more than 2 years to finally accept the *** end of the RS7. It’s just not attractive to me and it needs help (which it will get). But the Camryesq posterior of the E63 wasn’t an instant love affair either. It took a diffuser and spoiler before I was ok with her butt too. I’m sure I’ll find the right pieces to make me appreciate the RS7 so I’ll revisit this in a few months.

Interior: this is a pretty close comparison. Dash materials are on par but Audi seems to prefer carbon fiber inlays instead of MB’s wood. I like both so I don’t have a preference as long as it looks good. The dash materials are about equal as well. The instrument cluster in the Audi is significantly better than the E63 with it allowing nav between the gauges and hud display but it’s 4 years newer than the MB so it’s not really fair. It also has night vision that I’ll probably never use but it’s kinda cool none the less. In the lap timer mode you also get a boost gauge and gear indicator in the hud display which I kind of like. I do prefer the dedicated transmission and suspension buttons in the AMG rather than having to go through the infotainment system in the Audi. I can’t say yet whether one infotainment system is better than the other, they’re just different and I’m still figuring out the Audi. I have the upgraded comfort seating do the bolstering and support is better in the E63 but the heating, ventilation, and massage functions in the Audi are markedly better. The leather in the Audi also feels a bit more supple but that may mean it shows wear worse as well. After 130k miles my AMG’s interior still looked brand new.

I’m hoping to get the RS7 to the track next month in stock trim before doing any mods so I’ll report back when I have that data to share. Let me know if you have any questions are there’s anything else you’d like me to compare. I hope you guys don’t mind if I hang around. I still have my first E55 that’s in my signature below if that helps.

Last edited by chiromikey; 01-09-2019 at 04:30 AM.
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:43 AM
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I assume you are using APR to go Stage II. Probably the most trusted and track proven tuner company in the Audi world. You will not be disappointed. Those mods will transform your RS7. The only real issue Ive seen with the RS7 is their propensity to eat brakes. Mine were replaced at 10,000 miles and there are plenty of other owners with this same issue. Other than that, its a fantastic car. Congrats!! Im sure youll enjoy your new addition.
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:16 AM
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Thanks bud! After the E55 being the straight line king I never thought AMG would force me to look elsewhere to go fast.Yes, APR is my only tuner choice. Being able to switch from street tune to mix or full race gas tune from the instrument cluster or phone app will be amazing after being stuck with zero options in the E63. I have read about the brakes and almost wanted to hold out for a Performance model with the CCBs but it just wasn’t a must have for me.
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:54 PM
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Never had the RS7, but have been a long time Audi driver, including S4s, S6, and then A8 W12. I agree on the comments around build quality, Audi just "feels" better put together than MB and BMW. Not sure I agree on exhaust notes, I think the AMG "donk - donk" v8 sound is better than anything from Audi or BMW.
One thing that is different is Quatrro, the Audi is a true AWD system, and the Torsen diffs make it a very different experience to drive in slippery conditions. Taking a Quattro versus 4matic versus xDrive on an empty parking lot in the winter is sublime with Audi, jerky with the others. It's the consistency of the Quattro setup that makes it so much fun in those conditions (yes, some of the newest Quattros are different, I know)
That said, I'm 6'5" and have kids that are slowly becoming teenagers. And we regularly bring stuff with us in the car. Went to test drive the RS7 and immediately realized it's tiny inside. With me in the front, there is very limited space in the back and headroom is a precious commodity both in front but esp rear..

If the RS6 ever made it to the states - I would be very, very tempted.

Second the APR thoughts. Great group. GIAC is another well known vendor but for some reason I think you are well aware of all of them.... You have been to this rodeo in the past!

Good luck and please do keep the updates coming.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by FastWgn View Post
Never had the RS7, but have been a long time Audi driver, including S4s, S6, and then A8 W12. I agree on the comments around build quality, Audi just "feels" better put together than MB and BMW. Not sure I agree on exhaust notes, I think the AMG "donk - donk" v8 sound is better than anything from Audi or BMW.
One thing that is different is Quatrro, the Audi is a true AWD system, and the Torsen diffs make it a very different experience to drive in slippery conditions. Taking a Quattro versus 4matic versus xDrive on an empty parking lot in the winter is sublime with Audi, jerky with the others. It's the consistency of the Quattro setup that makes it so much fun in those conditions (yes, some of the newest Quattros are different, I know)
That said, I'm 6'5" and have kids that are slowly becoming teenagers. And we regularly bring stuff with us in the car. Went to test drive the RS7 and immediately realized it's tiny inside. With me in the front, there is very limited space in the back and headroom is a precious commodity both in front but esp rear..

If the RS6 ever made it to the states - I would be very, very tempted.

Second the APR thoughts. Great group. GIAC is another well known vendor but for some reason I think you are well aware of all of them.... You have been to this rodeo in the past!

Good luck and please do keep the updates coming.
Hey C ! I thought you were lost in action somewhere. Haven't heard from you in awhile. Hopefully I didn't **** you off or anything. LOL

Cheers
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Vrodman View Post
Hey C ! I thought you were lost in action somewhere. Haven't heard from you in awhile. Hopefully I didn't **** you off or anything. LOL

Cheers
Vrodman - no way - life was just super busy at end of last year with work....
The brackets are holding up perfectly by the way, love them!

Let's connect on phone some time. Some nice updates recently, and heading towards VIM next week.

Let's take this PM or phone - don't want to contaminate the OP's excellent post.
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by FastWgn View Post
Never had the RS7, but have been a long time Audi driver, including S4s, S6, and then A8 W12. I agree on the comments around build quality, Audi just "feels" better put together than MB and BMW. Not sure I agree on exhaust notes, I think the AMG "donk - donk" v8 sound is better than anything from Audi or BMW.
One thing that is different is Quatrro, the Audi is a true AWD system, and the Torsen diffs make it a very different experience to drive in slippery conditions. Taking a Quattro versus 4matic versus xDrive on an empty parking lot in the winter is sublime with Audi, jerky with the others. It's the consistency of the Quattro setup that makes it so much fun in those conditions (yes, some of the newest Quattros are different, I know)
That said, I'm 6'5" and have kids that are slowly becoming teenagers. And we regularly bring stuff with us in the car. Went to test drive the RS7 and immediately realized it's tiny inside. With me in the front, there is very limited space in the back and headroom is a precious commodity both in front but esp rear..

If the RS6 ever made it to the states - I would be very, very tempted.

Second the APR thoughts. Great group. GIAC is another well known vendor but for some reason I think you are well aware of all of them.... You have been to this rodeo in the past!

Good luck and please do keep the updates coming.
Thanks brotha!

The AMG sound once the DPs were added is untouchable. It was just a bit too muffled from the factory. In stock form its really not a fair comparison since the RS7 came with the full titanium Akrapovic exhaust. If it just had the standard or even sport exhaust I think the E63 would win there as well.

GIAC would be my second choice but its just hard to argue with APRs record.

I agree with you on interior room. Even though the cars are both considered mid size the RS7 does feel smaller. The back seats are probably a better comparison to the CLS instead of the E. At 65 you almost have a foot on me and my kid is still in a car seat so I dont need the room quite like you do. As long as the wife can get her massage (which she couldnt in the E63 because MB somehow thought it was a good idea to quit offering it to the passenger) and I can fit a buddy or two with their golf clubs, it works for me.

Ill get back to you on the AWD system. This will be my first and to be honest, if the RSteas offered in RWD I would have opted for that version. Admittedly Ill probably get over that once I see how hard this thing launches on street tires. 1.5-1.6 60ft times seem the norm for this platform. Thats relatively unheard of from the E63s.

Im looking forward to getting to know My first dance with Audi. Hopefully it lasts a while but that new F90 M5 is already showing serious potential and a next contender! I never thought Id be straying from AMG but theyve got some work to do to win me back!
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Old 01-09-2019, 04:31 PM
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I've looked into the RS7 performance as well and well.......the handling got me. Mostly the body lean. It's the main reason I wanna stick with the AMG (even though admittedly the W212 is not the greatest there either). BMW M5 competition is seriously calling my name
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by kponti View Post
I've looked into the RS7 performance as well and well.......the handling got me. Mostly the body lean. It's the main reason I wanna stick with the AMG (even though admittedly the W212 is not the greatest there either). BMW M5 competition is seriously calling my name
For me and where I live, handling mountain curves isn’t needed and if I’m going to the local track to take on their road coarse I’d rather be on the bike anyways. I’d never thought a 4400lb sedan could handle as well as they do already so as long as it can take high speed sweepers Autobahn style I’m content. But I can respect others for wanting it to meet those requirements.

Another thing I just realized I don’t miss in my AMG is the sunroof cover flying back every time I go wot. How have they not fixed that since 2003???!!!
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by chiromikey View Post


For me and where I live, handling mountain curves isnt needed and if Im going to the local track to take on their road coarse Id rather be on the bike anyways. Id never thought a 4400lb sedan could handle as well as they do already so as long as it can take high speed sweepers Autobahn style Im content. But I can respect others for wanting it to meet those requirements.

Another thing I just realized I dont miss in my AMG is the sunroof cover flying back every time I go wot. How have they not fixed that since 2003???!!!
Hmmmm. Neither my 2011 nor my current 2015 had this sun roof cover issue. I guess I don't have enough horsepower! Yikes.
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:40 PM
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Thanks chiro for this true and honest comparison. glad you are enjoying rs7

as for the sunroof cover thing, mine does that too lol although its not flying back it does slide back a little bit whenever I give it hard throttle
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by amgboy916 View Post
Thanks chiro for this true and honest comparison. glad you are enjoying rs7

as for the sunroof cover thing, mine does that too lol although its not flying back it does slide back a little bit whenever I give it hard throttle
It just occurred to me that perhaps you guys do not have the pano? After thinking about it, I don't think I actually can slide my cover back manually. Motor only I think. I am guessing if you have the standard sunroof it's different. I had/have pano on both of my W212's.
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Old 01-09-2019, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by chiromikey View Post
Ill get back to you on the AWD system. This will be my first and to be honest, if the RSteas offered in RWD I would have opted for that version. Admittedly Ill probably get over that once I see how hard this thing launches on street tires. 1.5-1.6 60ft times seem the norm for this platform. Thats relatively unheard of from the E63s.
Nice grab on the RS. They cut great 60's . I have read they tend to snap axles after a bit when tuned to 110%. Congrats on the new ride, keep us posted on the dragstrip they are quite fast cars!
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Old 01-09-2019, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Vrodman View Post
It just occurred to me that perhaps you guys do not have the pano? After thinking about it, I don't think I actually can slide my cover back manually. Motor only I think. I am guessing if you have the standard sunroof it's different. I had/have pano on both of my W212's.
I had a pano on my second E55 and that came with its own set of problems like creaking over slow bumps and gears stripping but youre right, at least the cover doesnt fly back.
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Old 01-09-2019, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Savage212 View Post
Nice grab on the RS. They cut great 60's . I have read they tend to snap axles after a bit when tuned to 110%. Congrats on the new ride, keep us posted on the dragstrip they are quite fast cars!
Yeah, I too have read a handful of reports of axels snapping when launching above 2800 rpm. I snapped an axle launching my E55 so I know its a price one might have to pay when the car is willing to give it its all at launch.
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:42 PM
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chiro

love this thread and NICE writeup so far!! Keep the data coming and I totally agree with all your concerns about the w212 amg platform

cheers (and congrats!)

oh and pics please!!

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Old 01-09-2019, 11:01 PM
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Good read on your initial thoughts

i just came from a 13 S6 to 15 E63 and share some of your feelings on the differences. I have not been real impressed with the E63 transmission compared to the DSG in the s6. The first time I got that jerky take off in 1st gear in the E63 I was like WTF is that

cant go wrong with APR, but I had the Unitronic stage 2 tune and the ability to flash at home was really nice considering warranty implications... of which there were a lot, over $17k in warranty work in the 2 yrs I had it. I also snapped an axel at the track using launch control

as of now, some of the downsides I am seeing in the E63 compared to the S6 are being mage up for in the sheer muscle car feeling I get with the E63 (car is also tuned). I know you have the better power in the RS7, but the E63 just feels more raw in a good way compared to the S6 and the toque is just silly. I Was just s bit bored with the c7 platform and needed a change, but I am not sure I see myself keeping the E63 more than a couple years. It feels a bit more dated than I expected



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Old 01-09-2019, 11:05 PM
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Old 01-10-2019, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterUbers View Post
chiro

love this thread and NICE writeup so far!! Keep the data coming and I totally agree with all your concerns about the w212 amg platform

cheers (and congrats!)

oh and pics please!!
Thanks bud! Ill keep updated as I get more familiar and add a few mods. I honestly havent even had a chance to take any decent pics with the rain. I took one today while running errands as the sun peaked out a bit but thats about it.
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Old 01-10-2019, 01:09 AM
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Old 01-10-2019, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeDWerks View Post
Good read on your initial thoughts

i just came from a 13 S6 to 15 E63 and share some of your feelings on the differences. I have not been real impressed with the E63 transmission compared to the DSG in the s6. The first time I got that jerky take off in 1st gear in the E63 I was like WTF is that

cant go wrong with APR, but I had the Unitronic stage 2 tune and the ability to flash at home was really nice considering warranty implications... of which there were a lot, over $17k in warranty work in the 2 yrs I had it. I also snapped an axel at the track using launch control

as of now, some of the downsides I am seeing in the E63 compared to the S6 are being mage up for in the sheer muscle car feeling I get with the E63 (car is also tuned). I know you have the better power in the RS7, but the E63 just feels more raw in a good way compared to the S6 and the toque is just silly. I Was just s bit bored with the c7 platform and needed a change, but I am not sure I see myself keeping the E63 more than a couple years. It feels a bit more dated than I expected
Yes! The E63 is definitely more raw in a good way. The RS7 sounds very European V8 with a smooth scream while the E63 is more American muscle car V8 with a roar. I cant wait to get the DPs in and be able to compare apples to apples.
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Old 01-10-2019, 01:39 AM
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My dream Audi - and C, I have no doubt you'll get yours sounding like this


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Old 01-10-2019, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterUbers View Post
My dream Audi - and C, I have no doubt you'll get yours sounding like this

https://youtu.be/Q6gWDk11Hfg
Thats my dream car, period! So thats catless DPs. I saw the stock mufflers but I couldnt tell if it still had the resonator. Either way it sounds pretty mean. Maybe Ill get even better sound with catless and the Akrapovic system. Cant wait!!
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:52 AM
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Everybody loves the RS6 wagon. So sick. But so, so ridiculously expensive. I sat in one at the dealer in Dublin, Ireland and they wanted in the ballpark of 170k if I'm remembering correctly.
Your complaints about the AMG transmission made me laugh. It's kind of funny. They all do that hopping and lurching around bit.
They are finicky beasts.
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Old 01-10-2019, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Traffic53 View Post
Everybody loves the RS6 wagon. So sick. But so, so ridiculously expensive. I sat in one at the dealer in Dublin, Ireland and they wanted in the ballpark of 170k if I'm remembering correctly.
Your complaints about the AMG transmission made me laugh. It's kind of funny. They all do that hopping and lurching around bit.
They are finicky beasts.
benz can't make a smooth transmission ... my foot learned to dial out a lot of the lurching but it's super annoying
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