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I've said it before, I'll say it again... the companies telling you to buy X hardware to achieve X hp are in the business to sell hardware.
I daily drive my car and have over 3k miles running E50 in the tank.
My tune only car is as fast as my friends E63S with 25K in upgrades... those are facts.... I'm 10.9 at 130 mph, his best was 10.9 at 127 mph...
I'm in Houston. Everyone here in the AMG Social Club are very familiar with my car. They will tell you how it performs and how little I had to invest in it to achieve that level of performance.
It is all down to the flex fuel tune. Go to my thread... I am transparent in every thing I do.
I have no agenda beyond educating enthusiasts. .
By all means spend your hard earned money on aftermarket hardware... I'll stay with my TUV certified OEM hardware thank you.
fwhp is likely flywheel horsepower, aka engine horsepower or brake horsepower (bhp), instead of wheel horsepower
I'm hesitant about the e85 claims since Eurocharged themselves don't list the tune on their website and haven't posted about it. @loungn14 can you elaborate? This kind of seems like a long "beta" period where @brutus_tx and the rest are the beta testers & Eurocharged is waiting to see what goes wrong before they consider rolling it out to the masses.
The beta period is over... there are many people running the E85 tune now... and there are a couple running the E50 variant, like I am. They just choose not to post up in the threads.
I believe there is an announcement pending in the next couple of weeks regarding the E85 tune. All the numbers I've seen show power in the 680 to 700 awhp range, and slightly higher for the RWD cars.
Whats more important though is the marked improvement in street performance noted with the draggy runs. These guys have taken what I started and ran with it. I am proud of the level of collaboration we have been able to achieve as a group of enthusiasts.
My fellow enthusiasts are investing in HP Tuners and draggy to help benchmark these tunes globally.
We have become an extension of the EC network by being able to log the data for our respective cars and get the info back to Jerry for assessment and modifications. I can't think of any other tuner who is doing this.
Sebastian Bird, in here, is running the E85 tune with fantastic results, and I believe Marine_1 is running my E50 variant with great results as well. There are many others out there lurking who reached out to me in PM before contacting EC Corporate, aka Jerry or Sean.
Something to remember when discussing EC.... we have been dealing direct with EC corporate, not via any affiliates.
Reaching out to your local EC vendor may not net you the correct information.
Reaching out to your local EC vendor may not net you the correct information.
yup. i actually had to tell my local vendor about it after reading your posts, here. he's done a GLC63, so far, and the results are amazing. im looking at getting the tune once spring hits. we, as a community, owe you a huge amount of gratitude, @brutus_tx . your research and willingness to be a guinea pig has really advanced the platform.
yup. i actually had to tell my local vendor about it after reading your posts, here. he's done a GLC63, so far, and the results are amazing. im looking at getting the tune once spring hits. we, as a community, owe you a huge amount of gratitude, @brutus_tx . your research and willingness to be a guinea pig has really advanced the platform.
Thank you for the kind words.... but I didn't go into this blindly.
I took an iterative approach to the tuning and slowly over time Jerry was able to keep turning up the wick a little, logging the results, and tweaking them ... rinse repeat.
Jerry gets most of the credit for putting up with me to be honest. I can be a little pedantic when focused on something.
Of course we all get the benefit for this now, Jerry included. For that I'll take credit...
I'm glad two other people have said it, it's just bhp not fwhp! My car is 725RWHP! And yes it's stock so you clearly have no idea. Call Eurocharged in Houston and speak to Sean. Don't bother in the website.
Here's my Dyno to prove it. I'll even put the car on the ramp and take photos of the stock downpipes just to prove it too!
Here
Got an email from Eurocharged today......I was told the absolute highest possible FLYWHEEL (BHP) HORSEPOWER is 775 with E85 fuel. ECU TUNE ........ONLY.
That equals approximately 659 REAR WHEEL HORSEPOWER (or AWP).....both are WHEEL HP. Both are DIFFERTENT than FLYWHEEL HORSEPOWER (or BHP). About 15% less when going from FWHP/BHP to WHEEL HP.
Not sure how you're getting 725 WHEEL HP.........thats 66 more WHEEL HP than Eurocharged says is possible on ECU TUNE ONLY.
Unless you are just mistaking and listing your FLYWHEEL (or BHP) numbers.......then it will all make sense......
Last edited by E63AMGPlus; Feb 25, 2020 at 08:07 AM.
Got an email from Eurocharged today......I was told the absolute highest possible FLYWHEEL (BHP) HORSEPOWER is 775 with E85 fuel. ECU TUNE ........ONLY.
That equals approximately 659 REAR WHEEL HORSEPOWER (or AWP).....both are WHEEL HP. Both are DIFFERTENT than FLYWHEEL HORSEPOWER (or BHP). About 15% less when going from FWHP/BHP to WHEEL HP.
Not sure how you're getting 725 WHEEL HP.........thats 66 more WHEEL HP than Eurocharged says is possible on ECU TUNE ONLY.
Unless you are just mistaking and listing your FLYWHEEL (or BHP) numbers.......then it will all make sense......
Look at the Dyno it says that bhp was 750 and that the power at the wheels was 725 rwhp. This was measured on a cartec Dyno which is throughout Europe.
I'm not mistaking anything those are the numbers and it shows in 100-200kph times. I'm doing 6.20.
I am just RWD not AWD, you lose more power with an AWD model.
Despite all of this these cars make massive power on E85 on tune alone for $2500.
I cannot get traction it's a struggle down low, the car will do rolling burnouts like the video you posted.
Look at the Dyno it says that bhp was 750 and that the power at the wheels was 725 rwhp. This was measured on a cartec Dyno which is throughout Europe.
I'm not mistaking anything those are the numbers and it shows in 100-200kph times. I'm doing 6.20.
I am just RWD not AWD, you lose more power with an AWD model.
Despite all of this these cars make massive power on E85 on tune alone for $2500.
I cannot get traction it's a struggle down low, the car will do rolling burnouts like the video you posted.
No doubt, these cars perform. 1/4 mile, 0-60, 100-200.....the numbers are there. 750 BHP to 725 WHEEL is about 3% drivetrain loss.....that can just be because of how they haver that particular dyne set up. Drivetrain loss is 15% on these cars.....so that would put it at about 638 WHEEL HP....Tune Only..........which is more in line with what Jerry Thornton told me yesterday.
Got an email from Eurocharged today......I was told the absolute highest possible FLYWHEEL (BHP) HORSEPOWER is 775 with E85 fuel. ECU TUNE ........ONLY.
That equals approximately 659 REAR WHEEL HORSEPOWER (or AWP).....both are WHEEL HP. Both are DIFFERTENT than FLYWHEEL HORSEPOWER (or BHP). About 15% less when going from FWHP/BHP to WHEEL HP.
Not sure how you're getting 725 WHEEL HP.........thats 66 more WHEEL HP than Eurocharged says is possible on ECU TUNE ONLY.
Unless you are just mistaking and listing your FLYWHEEL (or BHP) numbers.......then it will all make sense......
Your understanding of drive train loss and the differences between AWHP and RWHP vs BHP are incorrect. In addition you're treating dynos like they are absolute numbers, which they are not. Concentrate less on the power claims and more in the real world performance documented by other means, like draggy or quarter mile slips. The true proof in the tunes tests there.
What are Weistec claiming for quarter mile performance for that kit? Compare that against the many multiple documented 10.9 at 129 mph quarter miles people with these tunes and nothing else are posting.
I can claim what I want for horsepower numbers but the quarter mile, 60-130 mph and 100-200 kph tell the true story.
Your understanding of drive train loss and the differences between AWHP and RWHP vs BHP are incorrect. In addition you're treating dynos like they are absolute numbers, which they are not. Concentrate less on the power claims and more in the real world performance documented by other means, like draggy or quarter mile slips. The true proof in the tunes tests there.
What are Weistec claiming for quarter mile performance for that kit? Compare that against the many multiple documented 10.9 at 129 mph quarter miles people with these tunes and nothing else are posting.
I can claim what I want for horsepower numbers but the quarter mile, 60-130 mph and 100-200 kph tell the true story.
Jerry in his email also mentioned Flywheel HP as being the same as BHP......they are measured from the flywheel. Same value....two different names.
I'm now getting down to the answers of what these tunes can do. As jerry mentioned.....775 Flywheel HP MAX with E85 and aggressive tune.....and every car will be a little different of course. And then 700 Flywheel HP on 93 octane.
So 659 WHP and 595 WHP respectively.......
Thats cool.....and very kicks results for an ECU tune only car. Especially when you can quickly swap back to the stock tune for warranty work at the dealership.
And with the E85, it enhances the tune especially since boost is being increased. Thats where E85 is a bonus.....higher boost levels.
Last edited by E63AMGPlus; Feb 25, 2020 at 09:00 AM.
And with the E85, it enhances the tune especially since boost is being increased. Thats where E85 is a bonus.....higher boost levels.
actually....the E85 tune that is being sold is only running ~14psi of boost. so the gains arent because the boost is being increased....its in the timing. go back and read through the threads that i linked. @brutus_tx , @Sebastian Bird , @Marine 1 , @5soko and others have been very helpful and meticulous about explaining whats going on with our cars and this tune.
Just to note there is a huge difference between box tunes even so called aggressive box tunes, compared to custom tunes that have been made from data logging. Upgraded cooling system makes a huge difference, meth injection, type of fuel that you run and how your car handles it. I went from an aggressive tune to a custom tune and picked up 45hp and 100 tq. I’m now running A tune that I cannot use even ms-109 I use c12 mix. Honestly what your car puts down in the dyno is irrelevant. What it does on the track is what we care about. Your search should be looking for a tune with the best quarter mile, or looking for a tune with a good 60-130 etc. then log it then purchase performance upgrades and adjust the tune again. there’s a few here who have actually spent months testing and adjusting our tunes. Which make them way different from what you can get from a box tune.
And you can see me hitting tq limits in the dragy. This is without exhaust upgrade, without intake upgrade etc. just gutted stock cats
Just to note there is a huge difference between box tunes even so called aggressive box tunes, compared to custom tunes that have been made from data logging. Upgraded cooling system makes a huge difference, meth injection, type of fuel that you run and how your car handles it. I went from an aggressive tune to a custom tune and picked up 45hp and 100 tq. I’m now running A tune that I cannot use even ms-109 I use c12 mix. Honestly what your car puts down in the dyno is irrelevant. What it does on the track is what we care about. Your search should be looking for a tune with the best quarter mile, or looking for a tune with a good 60-130 etc. then log it then purchase performance upgrades and adjust the tune again. there’s a few here who have actually spent months testing and adjusting our tunes. Which make them way different from what you can get from a box tune.
And you can see me hitting tq limits in the dragy. This is without exhaust upgrade, without intake upgrade etc. just gutted stock cats
Cifdig who's the tuner? I've seen you on dragy, I'm Eddietemple69 on there.
Just to note there is a huge difference between box tunes even so called aggressive box tunes, compared to custom tunes that have been made from data logging. Upgraded cooling system makes a huge difference, meth injection, type of fuel that you run and how your car handles it. I went from an aggressive tune to a custom tune and picked up 45hp and 100 tq. I’m now running A tune that I cannot use even ms-109 I use c12 mix. Honestly what your car puts down in the dyno is irrelevant. What it does on the track is what we care about. Your search should be looking for a tune with the best quarter mile, or looking for a tune with a good 60-130 etc. then log it then purchase performance upgrades and adjust the tune again. there’s a few here who have actually spent months testing and adjusting our tunes. Which make them way different from what you can get from a box tune.
And you can see me hitting tq limits in the dragy. This is without exhaust upgrade, without intake upgrade etc. just gutted stock cats
What kind of life expectancy are you getting from the O2 sensors running C12?
What kind of life expectancy are you getting from the O2 sensors running C12?
so far 8 months np. Not running it pure. For every 5 gallons of 100 octane I add one gallon of c12. But I have run it pure. If they go I jack up the car and swap them out. I don’t run that tune every day. I normally run my 93 custom tune .
so far 8 months np. Not running it pure. For every 5 gallons of 100 octane I add one gallon of c12. But I have run it pure. If they go I jack up the car and swap them out. I don’t run that tune every day. I normally run my 93 custom tune .
This is what I'm trying to work out lol, he has also said that he runs his custom 93 tune most of the time!
hahahaha. that is actually what i plan to do when i get the tune. the Flex tune will be....well, to flex. but i will spend most of my time on a 93 or even stock tune. i just dont have enough opportunities to unleash that kinda power. but im sure i can find some partners in 'mexico' to oblige me, if im so inclined
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