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Some of you guys have a few posts on this and I tried to dig around, but figured it would be more efficient just to ask:
1) why in the blazes is my max TPS (sae) 86.7%? My command throttle is obviously 100% but the car doesn’t want to go past this imaginary line in gear 1 and 2
2) I assume using the time stamp at the bottom you can get a relatively accurate 0-60 time. 4.3 without launch control.
3) Does it make sense boost spikes to 21.5inhg during a gear change? I assumed the wastegate would dump to keep boost down in that 15-18 range. I suppose I shouldn’t complain
4) What has been the best resource for learning how to use this thing? Online guide? YouTube? I have 18,000 things going on like all of you, so I need to be as efficient as possible. I’m not a tuning nerd or anything, just a weekend tinkerer and want a baseline education to be able to make this investment worthwhile.
Some of you guys have a few posts on this and I tried to dig around, but figured it would be more efficient just to ask:
1) why in the blazes is my max TPS (sae) 86.7%? My command throttle is obviously 100% but the car doesn’t want to go past this imaginary line in gear 1 and 2
2) I assume using the time stamp at the bottom you can get a relatively accurate 0-60 time. 4.3 without launch control.
3) Does it make sense boost spikes to 21.5inhg during a gear change? I assumed the wastegate would dump to keep boost down in that 15-18 range. I suppose I shouldn’t complain
4) What has been the best resource for learning how to use this thing? Online guide? YouTube? I have 18,000 things going on like all of you, so I need to be as efficient as possible. I’m not a tuning nerd or anything, just a weekend tinkerer and want a baseline education to be able to make this investment worthwhile.
Some of you guys have a few posts on this and I tried to dig around, but figured it would be more efficient just to ask:
1) why in the blazes is my max TPS (sae) 86.7%? My command throttle is obviously 100% but the car doesn’t want to go past this imaginary line in gear 1 and 2
2) I assume using the time stamp at the bottom you can get a relatively accurate 0-60 time. 4.3 without launch control.
3) Does it make sense boost spikes to 21.5inhg during a gear change? I assumed the wastegate would dump to keep boost down in that 15-18 range. I suppose I shouldn’t complain
4) What has been the best resource for learning how to use this thing? Online guide? YouTube? I have 18,000 things going on like all of you, so I need to be as efficient as possible. I’m not a tuning nerd or anything, just a weekend tinkerer and want a baseline education to be able to make this investment worthwhile.
Thanks fellas! Stay safe
I'll try and answer some of your questions, but without seeing the log its hard to answer some of these questions... note the following...
1) Welcome to the world of torque management. The ECU/TCU purposely retard throttle inputs in the lower gears to reduce the torque. I've seen as much as 50% reduction in actual throttle against a 100% commanded throttle request aka "peddle to the metal" in first gear.
2) I've never used HP Tuner to determine 0-60 times, choosing to rely on VBox or Draggy to determine those numbers. Having said that, I assume a HPT method would be hard to determine an accurate measurement as I don't think you can account for wheel slippage etc.
3) 21.5inHg is equivalent to ~10.5psi. You also need to determine whether the pressure you are looking at is PSIA or PSIG. Reference 1 above, unless you have a TCU tune, you will never see max boost in the lower gears. In my experience you don't see max boost until 4th gear and above, as the TCU interferes in some form or fashion in the first three gears. Our cars (E63S) make a max of 14.5 psi unless tuned. This number is dependent on a bunch of things, including temperature etc. Which field are you viewing to read inHg? With my car, being tuned, the most I saw in 1st was 8 to 10 psi, max of 13psi in second, 15 psi in third, and 18.5 psi 4th and beyond.
4) For me, the best resource other than 5soko and others in here, was Google. Aside from learning what each data point references, 5soko introduced me to www.datazap.me. This website came out of the BMW enthusiast world I believe. It allows you to import from HPTuners directly into the the website and then display your logged data graphically. Its a much easier way to show the inter-dependencies of the data and how the engine is performing. In HPT export your log as a CSV, then you can import this data into the graphing function at Datazap.me. For giggles, you can look at one of my logs here.. https://datazap.me/u/brutustx/110128...zoom=5794-5967 where I ran an 11.0 at 128.7. Get comfortable with the layout and features of the website. It's pretty intuitive. 5Soko can give you some pointers on recommended data points to log in HPTunerand then view in datazap.me. There's a lot of information available in the logs.
Here's my run in graphical form. All I was looking at here was throttle position versus accelerator position, with boost versus rpm. Note there are two pressures logged... intake manifold absolute pressure and barometric pressure. You need to subtract baro from absolute to get the actual gauge pressure. Hovering the mouse over the graph in the website will give you the values at that point on the graph. The max boost I saw on this run was 16.5 psi at the top end of 4th gear as I crossed the finish line of the quarter mile.
I hope this was helpful. PM me if you'd like to possibly have a net meeting to review the data with me remotely.
Ah crap you’re right Brutus! See this is why it’s good to ask questions. Ok let me read some how to’s and get this thing correctly configured before posting some logs.
BTW just mail ordered some Black’s BBQ hope it’s as good as I hear!
Awesome, if you see a grey one with so much brake dust on the wheels they look blackout it’s probably me. Usually running hot lanes to and from work.
If you guys hit MIR or something one day let me know. Would like to baseline this thing before making any mods!
Haha mine is gray also; the brake dust is brutal. For sure -- definitely plan to hit MIR once they are open again! You can also dyno it in the interim to get some baseline numbers.
Haha mine is gray also; the brake dust is brutal. For sure -- definitely plan to hit MIR once they are open again! You can also dyno it in the interim to get some baseline numbers.
You have a shop you dyno yours at? I could use the trip out of the house and the shop could probably use the $$. Socially distanced of course.
You have a shop you dyno yours at? I could use the trip out of the house and the shop could probably use the $$. Socially distanced of course.
Yes -- give Greg Miller at Loudoun County Exotics a call (https://www.locoexotics.com/). Great family-owned shop with an AWD DynoJet; @thabigo22 and I have both had our cars on their dyno recently, and they gladly data logged each pull with my HPTuners.
Yes -- give Greg Miller at Loudoun County Exotics a call (https://www.locoexotics.com/). Great family-owned shop with an AWD DynoJet; @thabigo22 and I have both had our cars on their dyno recently, and they gladly data logged each pull with my HPTuners.
Nice! I think I played lax with him many years ago and my neighbor takes his Bimmer there. Looks like I’ve got my Saturday planned!
Reminds me of that scene from Spinal Tap... why not make the 87% position “100%”. Is there any way for the throttle plate to physically go past 87% or is there a mechanical limitation (stop or otherwise).
Well I’m going to get with the dyno guy next week, seems he’s not all that busy with COVID19 going around. Will post my graphs and see how it compares to others and go from there. Maybe I’ll go find that GTR in the meantime...
Ok dyno done, results below. Bone stock so hopefully it compares well to others out there. Thanks to BCP and Thabigo22 for Loco Exotics recommendation m, great guys.
They also had a rare Maserati in the shop, here are a few pictures.
Assuming 18% DTL then 510 awhp equates to ~ 586 awhp, and 555 awtq equates to ~635 lb-ft. The torque seems a little high for stock, but the horsepower is spot on...
Ok dyno done, results below. Bone stock so hopefully it compares well to others out there. Thanks to BCP and Thabigo22 for Loco Exotics recommendation m, great guys.
They also had a rare Maserati in the shop, here are a few pictures.
Glad it went well! Are you still in the area? We are actually hanging out right down the street from LoCo. That Maserati is cool - I saw they had a GTR sitting outside the door today too.
Glad it went well! Are you still in the area? We are actually hanging out right down the street from LoCo. That Maserati is cool - I saw they had a GTR sitting outside the door today too.
Nah I booked it back to Burke, the wife has me on dinner duty tonight. You guys do happy hour out that way or something?? Greg said the GTR has over 1,400hp and one of the few cars that actually scares him to drive. Ken the tech seemed like a decent fellow, although when I asked him about indexing plugs he seemed to think it wasn’t important for a stock car. Hmm...
They’re hurting for work as you might imagine so you should be able to get in and out these days.
Nah I booked it back to Burke, the wife has me on dinner duty tonight. You guys do happy hour out that way or something?? Greg said the GTR has over 1,400hp and one of the few cars that actually scares him to drive. Ken the tech seemed like a decent fellow, although when I asked him about indexing plugs he seemed to think it wasn’t important for a stock car. Hmm...
They’re hurting for work as you might imagine so you should be able to get in and out these days.
Understandable! No, just hanging out at a friend’s shop and enjoying a cold one. The GTR is definitely sick - they’d posted a video of it not long ago when it was on their dyno. If I recall, OEM plugs are threaded to index properly if you torque them to spec. I’ll definitely be scheduling some more dyno time once I get the revised tune in my car.
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Assuming 18% DTL then 510 awhp equates to ~ 586 awhp, and 555 awtq equates to ~635 lb-ft. The torque seems a little high for stock, but the horsepower is spot on...
Nice very rare Maserati too!
What is the correct math? Assuming 20% loss for ease of argument, is the formula:
510 / .80
510 x 1.25
510 x 1.20
I’ve seen some math nerds reference the first two ways. I know it doesn’t matter, just curious.
What is the correct math? Assuming 20% loss for ease of argument, is the formula:
510 / .80
510 x 1.25
510 x 1.20
I’ve seen some math nerds reference the first two ways. I know it doesn’t matter, just curious.
The first...
510 AWHP with 20% DTL equates to 510/0.80 or 637.5 BHP.
510 AWHP with 18% DTL (100% - 18% = 82%) equates to 510/0.82 or 621.9 BHP
That 20% seems high to me... I typically use 15% for RWD and 18% for AWD.
Of course dyno's are notoriously inconsistent in their numbers dyno to dyno, which is why I rely less on the numbers and choose to concentrate more on the overall torque and power curve itself from the dyno plot, relying on 1/4 trap speeds to give a better indicator of power being made.
If we both have the same cars with similar mods, and we both trap 125 in the quarter, it's safe to assume we are marking similar power regardless of what a dyno tells you, regardless whether its a mustang, dynojet or other brand.
510 AWHP with 20% DTL equates to 510/0.80 or 637.5 BHP.
510 AWHP with 18% DTL (100% - 18% = 82%) equates to 510/0.82 or 621.9 BHP
That 20% seems high to me... I typically use 15% for RWD and 18% for AWD.
Of course dyno's are notoriously inconsistent in their numbers dyno to dyno, which is why I rely less on the numbers and choose to concentrate more on the overall torque and power curve itself from the dyno plot, relying on 1/4 trap speeds to give a better indicator of power being made.
If we both have the same cars with similar mods, and we both trap 125 in the quarter, it's safe to assume we are marking similar power regardless of what a dyno tells you, regardless whether its a mustang, dynojet or other brand.
Thanks for clarifying, gotta track this thing as soon as life opens back up. WWE apparently is essential so why not the local drag strip??! 😀
Ok dyno done, results below. Bone stock so hopefully it compares well to others out there. Thanks to BCP and Thabigo22 for Loco Exotics recommendation m, great guys.
They also had a rare Maserati in the shop, here are a few pictures.
Correction factor on that dyno? Never mind, it's right in front of me. Standard.
Last edited by Sugar_Mouth; Apr 14, 2020 at 11:03 PM.
Correction factor on that dyno? Never mind, it's right in front of me. Standard.
Not exactly sure what that means - also at the bottom (picture did not include) it has CF 1.01. I assume that means it’s taking into account atmospheric conditions and adding 1%?
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