E63 s disappointment
02-24-2018, 05:17 PM
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E63s
E63 s disappointment
1050 Miles on the odometer.
Three visits to dealer.
1. All safety systems suspended with 24 miles on the car secondary to faulty rear bumper sensor.
2. 800 miles faulty oil level measurement issue
3. Most significantly now with 1050 miles on the car it has been in the shop for three days with check engine light on. Multiple misfires in virtually all cylinders. ? manifold gasket leak. No idea when I get it back. "We are working on it and not sure all the parts we need; we do know that most are in Germany".
Wow....
Three visits to dealer.
1. All safety systems suspended with 24 miles on the car secondary to faulty rear bumper sensor.
2. 800 miles faulty oil level measurement issue
3. Most significantly now with 1050 miles on the car it has been in the shop for three days with check engine light on. Multiple misfires in virtually all cylinders. ? manifold gasket leak. No idea when I get it back. "We are working on it and not sure all the parts we need; we do know that most are in Germany".
Wow....
02-24-2018, 06:14 PM
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2018 E63s Wagon
Picked mine up CPO with 2000 miles on it. In for the second time now with "air ride malfunction". We have only put 1000 miles on it. It's a shame because I do love the car.
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NOLA AMG (02-26-2018)
02-26-2018, 11:09 AM
#6
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That's fine, but it's no excuse. Mercedes is the one that runs around with the slogan "the best or nothing". It's sad when 25 year old Toyotas are more reliable than a brand new "best or nothing" car. 
02-26-2018, 12:00 PM
#7
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Mercedes Benz have been over reliant on electronics for years, and it is these electronics that are prone to failure. Everything you listed, was electronic.
But your not the only one with gremlins plaguing their vehicles, it exist across all models. That is why, I'm sticking with my 10 year old E63.
But your not the only one with gremlins plaguing their vehicles, it exist across all models. That is why, I'm sticking with my 10 year old E63.
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02-26-2018, 04:29 PM
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
most e63S's are just fine and as reliable as the proverbial 25 year old Toyota - show me proof that this is not the case. Yah gotta wonder if Tech is getting too advanced
Last edited by PeterUbers; 02-26-2018 at 04:33 PM.
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Vic55 (02-26-2018)
02-26-2018, 05:32 PM
#9
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1050 Miles on the odometer.
Three visits to dealer.
1. All safety systems suspended with 24 miles on the car secondary to faulty rear bumper sensor.
2. 800 miles faulty oil level measurement issue
3. Most significantly now with 1050 miles on the car it has been in the shop for three days with check engine light on. Multiple misfires in virtually all cylinders. ? manifold gasket leak. No idea when I get it back. "We are working on it and not sure all the parts we need; we do know that most are in Germany".
Wow....
Three visits to dealer.
1. All safety systems suspended with 24 miles on the car secondary to faulty rear bumper sensor.
2. 800 miles faulty oil level measurement issue
3. Most significantly now with 1050 miles on the car it has been in the shop for three days with check engine light on. Multiple misfires in virtually all cylinders. ? manifold gasket leak. No idea when I get it back. "We are working on it and not sure all the parts we need; we do know that most are in Germany".
Wow....
02-26-2018, 06:01 PM
#10
Super Member
a 25 year old Toyota is an incredibly podantic/simple machine compared to a 2018 E63S; these statements are nice to type on forums but don't really apply as I have learned, having said these same things; I do respect your frustration with your Benz and I have had my share of them as well. I always appreciate your posts btw on the forum I mean you no disrespect
most e63S's are just fine and as reliable as the proverbial 25 year old Toyota - show me proof that this is not the case. Yah gotta wonder if Tech is getting too advanced
Alright fine, the Toyota example was a stretch, but what about Lexus? I’ve owned 5 Lexuses and 2 benzes and while the Benzes were performance cars, the reliability has not even been close. My 2014 E63s was pretty reliable in my ownership, but the service history showed lots of warranty work from the previous owner. My 2006 E55 was a headache on wheels, but I just figured it was an older car and poorly designed. These cars just need a lot more quality control instead of mid-model facelifts.
02-26-2018, 07:16 PM
#11
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Nothing worse than having a new car and it being in shop. Sorry to hear.
Imagine what the used car market is going to bring in 15 years time. Joe Indie mechanic is going to need an EE degree.
Imagine what the used car market is going to bring in 15 years time. Joe Indie mechanic is going to need an EE degree.
02-27-2018, 12:30 AM
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
Bummer. Sorry to hear about the troubles! The worst part are the delays due to the international parts shipments.
Despite these issues, MB's are much more reliable than older models ever were.
Good luck getting it resolved fast!
Despite these issues, MB's are much more reliable than older models ever were.
Good luck getting it resolved fast!
02-28-2018, 04:07 PM
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
Alright fine, the Toyota example was a stretch, but what about Lexus? I’ve owned 5 Lexuses and 2 benzes and while the Benzes were performance cars, the reliability has not even been close. My 2014 E63s was pretty reliable in my ownership, but the service history showed lots of warranty work from the previous owner. My 2006 E55 was a headache on wheels, but I just figured it was an older car and poorly designed. These cars just need a lot more quality control instead of mid-model facelifts.
sadly they are still soft on performance compared to the germans
we are the suckers for racing in to buy brand new model 140k cars without waiting a year for them to be vetted and debugged; wants vs needs, etc.
02-28-2018, 04:08 PM
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
Many of the backyard mechanics that wrench at home can't hold a candle to the industry requirements needed to diagnoses, let alone REPAIR, some of these electronics; likely another reason amg depreciation is a lead balloon
02-28-2018, 05:02 PM
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
imagine the suckers buying these cars used in 10 years
Many of the backyard mechanics that wrench at home can't hold a candle to the industry requirements needed to diagnoses, let alone REPAIR, some of these electronics; likely another reason amg depreciation is a lead balloon
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kponti (02-28-2018)
02-28-2018, 06:56 PM
#17
imagine the suckers buying these cars used in 10 years
Many of the backyard mechanics that wrench at home can't hold a candle to the industry requirements needed to diagnoses, let alone REPAIR, some of these electronics; likely another reason amg depreciation is a lead balloon
Also most of the options on the AMG are available on the lowly E300, so the electronics for all intents and purposes are similar or the same. Bigger more powerful engines do not necessarily require unobtainium tools to work on. I will venture to say the S85B50 from a 2008 M5 is probably more complex than the S63B44TU turbo V8 as an example of more power not meaning more complexity (not valid in all area codes, some variations may apply)
02-28-2018, 06:59 PM
#18
03-02-2018, 11:29 PM
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
I beg to differ. The more options these AMGs have nowadays, it seems they do it by adding more and more control units. If something is wrong electrically, a control unit or its corresponding sensor is usually to blame. Diagnosing on the other hand is where it could get a bit murky. However eg I have a basic Scantool that for a less than 100 bucks I can access most of the individual ecus on my W212 biturbo and reset them anytime I want. I also had a Star unit that I used to diagnose individual components on my old W211 with its SBC etc etc (didn't bother updating for the W212 so I gave the unit away to someone who did update it and is currently using it on several newer MBs). The aftermarket catches up on the repair front well ahead of the performance front.
Also most of the options on the AMG are available on the lowly E300, so the electronics for all intents and purposes are similar or the same. Bigger more powerful engines do not necessarily require unobtainium tools to work on. I will venture to say the S85B50 from a 2008 M5 is probably more complex than the S63B44TU turbo V8 as an example of more power not meaning more complexity (not valid in all area codes, some variations may apply)
Also most of the options on the AMG are available on the lowly E300, so the electronics for all intents and purposes are similar or the same. Bigger more powerful engines do not necessarily require unobtainium tools to work on. I will venture to say the S85B50 from a 2008 M5 is probably more complex than the S63B44TU turbo V8 as an example of more power not meaning more complexity (not valid in all area codes, some variations may apply)
arguably as complex as the 2018 Chevy Cruze is compared to the 1985 cavalier, I imagine this Cruze will be cheaper to repair when it's 10 years old
a fully loaded e300 won't be a $140,000 car deprecated to $25,000 in 10 years .... but I agree it'll be challenging for a used car buyer to repair the electronics on the e300.... at least they can clear it with the scan tool
As an example the steering lock for w204 c300 is about $1500-1900 to repair when if fails and it's a common issue; they can be had used for as low as $12,000-18,000
Yes, "you're silly to go to the dealer for repairs...." yet people still do
I see your counterpoint but it stands to reason that these cars are perhaps too complex to validate their "predriven" appeal in a few years. The guy that buys them should be prepared to buy and maintain a $140,000 super sedan
Last edited by PeterUbers; 03-02-2018 at 11:36 PM.
03-03-2018, 01:39 AM
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
so for $100 you can clear the code. Great ... how does the issue get fixed?
arguably as complex as the 2018 Chevy Cruze is compared to the 1985 cavalier, I imagine this Cruze will be cheaper to repair when it's 10 years old
a fully loaded e300 won't be a $140,000 car deprecated to $25,000 in 10 years .... but I agree it'll be challenging for a used car buyer to repair the electronics on the e300.... at least they can clear it with the scan tool
As an example the steering lock for w204 c300 is about $1500-1900 to repair when if fails and it's a common issue; they can be had used for as low as $12,000-18,000
Yes, "you're silly to go to the dealer for repairs...." yet people still do
I see your counterpoint but it stands to reason that these cars are perhaps too complex to validate their "predriven" appeal in a few years. The guy that buys them should be prepared to buy and maintain a $140,000 super sedan
Huge depreciation isn't AMG-specific; any high-cost, non-commodity car attractive to a small customer base will experience the same. Some few and notable exceptions (select Porsche 911GT models and select exotics & SUV's).
03-03-2018, 10:17 AM
#21
so for $100 you can clear the code. Great ... how does the issue get fixed?
arguably as complex as the 2018 Chevy Cruze is compared to the 1985 cavalier, I imagine this Cruze will be cheaper to repair when it's 10 years old
a fully loaded e300 won't be a $140,000 car deprecated to $25,000 in 10 years .... but I agree it'll be challenging for a used car buyer to repair the electronics on the e300.... at least they can clear it with the scan tool
As an example the steering lock for w204 c300 is about $1500-1900 to repair when if fails and it's a common issue; they can be had used for as low as $12,000-18,000
Yes, "you're silly to go to the dealer for repairs...." yet people still do
I see your counterpoint but it stands to reason that these cars are perhaps too complex to validate their "predriven" appeal in a few years. The guy that buys them should be prepared to buy and maintain a $140,000 super sedan
You will have to do more repairs cos there is more to go wrong when the car is fully loaded, but that goes for the lowly E300 through to the mighty E63. So the concept of 140K vehicle repairs vs the 50-60K ones is mostly not true nowadays despite the complexities. I kept an old AMG (and Lexus) and to be honest I loved it. It was not that much more to maintain compared to most cars I have had. I did put on an ungodly amount of miles per year (25-30k) so a new one did not make sense for me, but I also went in knowing I will have to have cash to repair some things as I go. Ended up spending waaay more modifying it than actually repairing it.
Due to parts sharing, the huge depreciation on these cars have less to do with the cost of maintenance (cos they are not too far off between the base and hopped up versions) and more to do with the "someone who can afford a $70-90K used car will most likely pony up for a new $100-120k version. Dealers then get a backlog of these cars and have to reduce prices to move them. Also the lease options which a lot of these cars tend to be acquired by, flood the market with used cars, why not turn in your lease and get a new one for the same monthly payments as refinancing your old lease). Supply is outweighing demand on the used market and thus regardless of what decade we are in, these cars drop like a ship anchor in value, model after model, decade after decade. Yet they are still being sold on the used car market (niche purchasers)
EDIT: To add, a lot of these problems the W213 cars are experiencing seem to be electronic in nature....that is usually a whole lot cheaper to repair than a blown transmission from oil and coolant mixing in the radiator (W211), fuel pumps dying from the inability to replace a simple filter (W211), camshafts and tappets excessively wearing out due to metallurgy incompatibility (W212), head bolts failing (W212). All of which are regularly priced in remedy if you do it before it breaks. But I bet if any of these issues were to happen to a Chevy, it will not be cheap to repair either.
Last edited by kponti; 03-03-2018 at 10:27 AM.
03-03-2018, 10:21 AM
#22
The complexity of cars is just at its very beginning. Just add level 3+ autonomous driving, car 2 car communications, etc.
Huge depreciation isn't AMG-specific; any high-cost, non-commodity car attractive to a small customer base will experience the same. Some few and notable exceptions (select Porsche 911GT models and select exotics & SUV's).
Huge depreciation isn't AMG-specific; any high-cost, non-commodity car attractive to a small customer base will experience the same. Some few and notable exceptions (select Porsche 911GT models and select exotics & SUV's).
03-03-2018, 11:09 AM
#23
Super Member
I beg to differ. The more options these AMGs have nowadays, it seems they do it by adding more and more control units. If something is wrong electrically, a control unit or its corresponding sensor is usually to blame. Diagnosing on the other hand is where it could get a bit murky. However eg I have a basic Scantool that for a less than 100 bucks I can access most of the individual ecus on my W212 biturbo and reset them anytime I want. I also had a Star unit that I used to diagnose individual components on my old W211 with its SBC etc etc (didn't bother updating for the W212 so I gave the unit away to someone who did update it and is currently using it on several newer MBs). The aftermarket catches up on the repair front well ahead of the performance front.
Also most of the options on the AMG are available on the lowly E300, so the electronics for all intents and purposes are similar or the same. Bigger more powerful engines do not necessarily require unobtainium tools to work on. I will venture to say the S85B50 from a 2008 M5 is probably more complex than the S63B44TU turbo V8 as an example of more power not meaning more complexity (not valid in all area codes, some variations may apply)
Also most of the options on the AMG are available on the lowly E300, so the electronics for all intents and purposes are similar or the same. Bigger more powerful engines do not necessarily require unobtainium tools to work on. I will venture to say the S85B50 from a 2008 M5 is probably more complex than the S63B44TU turbo V8 as an example of more power not meaning more complexity (not valid in all area codes, some variations may apply)
You're assuming the ever growing number of control units will be commercially available to the general public in the future.
Try repairing a keyless go unit today.
03-03-2018, 11:13 AM
#24
Honda is damn near impossible to reset the radio units without a dealer....still an issue today as it was over 10 years ago
03-03-2018, 11:32 AM
#25
Super Member
Who knows what the next "security issue" will be.
How many more "security" issue units have been added? How many more general "this unit that renders your car inoperable is only available to select few" will they add?
The answer to both those questions is >1. Even with a scan tool, replacing these units is not always PNP. The whole point being, the future repairability of cars today is going to be an issue.
