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Assuming this is the 2020 S63? Safe to assume it is not 4Matic+? The CPC wasn't tuned? Looks like the tune is pretty spicy with the boost ramp and timing for the TQ to be that high. What fuel are you on? However your drivetrain loss wouldn't as much as a 4Matic+ car. The CPC seems to check it down quickly because of the rapid drop in HP and TQ. Do you know the reason they are aren't reving the motor out above 6K rpm?
With mine, you can see the stock run of 609/670. The CPC checks the tq qround 3K rpm and gradually drops the curve. However, with just a ECU and TCU tune, the tuner was about to extend the tq out about 1500 rpm before the CPC grabs it.
Thanks for the reply. Yes it's a 2020 S63 4Matic+. On 93 octane fuel. No idea about the revs. I'm wondering how the torque reached 900 without a CPC swap. Does it look to be a safe tune to you?
Renntech shows a 14% drivetrain loss on All-Wheel Drive Cars equipped with 4MATIC+.
Thanks for the reply. Yes it's a 2020 S63 4Matic+. On 93 octane fuel. No idea about the revs. I'm wondering how the torque reached 900 without a CPC swap. Does it look to be a safe tune to you?
Renntech shows a 14% drivetrain loss on All-Wheel Drive Cars equipped with 4MATIC+.
there is nothing safe about any tune, presuming by safe you mean minimal or no risk to long term driveability. More boost, more problems. The m177 is a stout engine but not impervious to the laws of physics - by numbers alone this is a risky tune if you aggressively drive and often. You'll burn the candle faster with a hotter fire.
By safe I mean can the engine/trans handle this kind of torque?
Some comments from another board:
"I am sorry, this is not a stage1 or 2, this is extremely aggressive and irresponsible timing throw at low rpm with very high octane fuel. This engine wont last 10K miles like this".
"Tune is only good if it is safe for the whole drive train. This tune shown here is damaging to the engine and it looks fake.
I have downpipes, high flow cats , low and high pressure fuel pumps, and water meth injection and mild TCU : on mustang dyno i saw 754 hp and 804 lb ft of torque....strapped and 2 guys in a trunk , it was still spinning tires on tge dyno...and the dyno was set to 4wd to provide more resistance..."
"aggressive af tune that’s def gonna **** of the trans"
"its gonna **** off the pistons and connecting rods first. But this car needs thrown on a dynojet to get accurate numbers"
"Peak power at 3900 ..tuned to perform like a diesel lol"
By safe I mean can the engine/trans handle this kind of torque?
Some comments from another board:
"I am sorry, this is not a stage1 or 2, this is extremely aggressive and irresponsible timing throw at low rpm with very high octane fuel. This engine wont last 10K miles like this".
"Tune is only good if it is safe for the whole drive train. This tune shown here is damaging to the engine and it looks fake.
I have downpipes, high flow cats , low and high pressure fuel pumps, and water meth injection and mild TCU : on mustang dyno i saw 754 hp and 804 lb ft of torque....strapped and 2 guys in a trunk , it was still spinning tires on tge dyno...and the dyno was set to 4wd to provide more resistance..."
"aggressive af tune that’s def gonna **** of the trans"
"its gonna **** off the pistons and connecting rods first. But this car needs thrown on a dynojet to get accurate numbers"
"Peak power at 3900 ..tuned to perform like a diesel lol"
can it handle the torque for a week or two sure; can you take THIS tune from an unknown tuner with unknown reliability and run it for a year without issues? Likely not
if this was my car I would take it to stock and drive it for a few months with an oil change and make sure all is good then re consider a milder tune from a well established company
much "safer" numbers - what's up with your tune? Was it perhaps dyno tuned to max everything out? The website talks about their "safe and reliable" tunes.
Last edited by PeterUbers; Jan 22, 2025 at 11:25 AM.
I would not want a curve like posted
I like torque curves that are flat, and HP that steadily increases. No spikes.
Bringing on 800+ ft lbs low RPM is just asking for trouble
My old car tune below, and when I get the new car tuned after warranty it will look similar. Albeit with more HP and torque being a W213.
From ECC. They do real world tunes, not bragging rights tunes.
Last edited by I.T. Guy; Jan 22, 2025 at 10:56 AM.
Not sure.....perhaps I was not given the correct dyno sheet.
call them and talk to someone - see what they're willing to share, worst that can happen is they decline to offer any info and that would be very telling of the tuner's reputation
also, I wonder if the gear that they ran the car and made a difference in terms of the torque output, I wonder if they put the car in Dyno mode, and I also wonder if that dyno, perhaps, is not your car's dyno, maybe somebody else's car.
Last edited by PeterUbers; Jan 22, 2025 at 01:14 PM.
"You can't go by rpm, add 1500 rpm t0 the bottom to the right, thats a calculated rpm number not actual, since I have to run the car in 6th gear which is one to one the rpm is off on the graph.
so 5500 is actually 7000. Also torque is true engine torque not wheel the hp is wheel, the car is run in awd mode. if I redo the graph by speed you will understand.It is however accurate."
"However On the s class I can't run the dyno like the e because as you know the front tire sits on the front of the front roller not in the top or the middle.As you can see Hp is almost exactly the same, however I can roll the car in 6th with the tire on the front of the front roller."
"You can't go by rpm, add 1500 rpm t0 the bottom to the right, thats a calculated rpm number not actual, since I have to run the car in 6th gear which is one to one the rpm is off on the graph.
so 5500 is actually 7000. Also torque is true engine torque not wheel the hp is wheel, the car is run in awd mode. if I redo the graph by speed you will understand.It is however accurate."
"However On the s class I can't run the dyno like the e because as you know the front tire sits on the front of the front roller not in the top or the middle.As you can see Hp is almost exactly the same, however I can roll the car in 6th with the tire on the front of the front roller."
my brain hurts from reading this - I have no idea why they didn't provide you an analogous dyno sheet to the one on their website (that I posted above).
with 15% drivetrain loss you're at peak torque of 765 to the wheels, still a pretty spicy tune! It's reassuring that the torque is further down the rpm band. And with 15% drivetrain loss you're making 544 whp? And he's saying because the front wheel horsepower isn't included on the total hp
value?
how does the car drive? What car is being dyno'd, a 4-matic S class?
I would dump this tuner and go with someone else.
can he just tell you what your actual post tune numbers are:
- post tune wheel hp - peak and what rpm
- post tune wheel torque - peak and what rpm
- post tune crank hp and torque
Last edited by PeterUbers; Jan 22, 2025 at 07:42 PM.
When the car was placed on the dyno, there was about an inch of clearance between the front wheels and the front lip of the dyno. There were 3 front rollers on the dyno but the front wheels would only rest on one roller at the very front. He states that the HP figure is at the wheels but the Torque numbers are at the engine due to the position of the front wheels on the roller. With the 14% drivetrain loss (per RennTech) the torque should read 774 at the wheels.
I have spoken to another tuner who's associated with EuroCharged. He states that they have a DynoJet dyno and the car will fit. Will see what the numbers are and go from there.
2025 AMG G 63 SUV /// 2025 AMG GT 63 S E Performance 4 Door Coupé
Originally Posted by xabo
Same tune, DynoJet dyno:
Definitely better, but could use some “cleaning up”.
I agree with @I.T. Guy you want your torque to come on at low rpm and then gently curve down throughout the rest of the rpm. As for HP, at low rpm it should begin to increase in a flat curve all the way to peak HP at about 1000rpm before redline, then drop off gently towards redline.
You’re last dyno sheet looks like it would be a terrible driving experience with the boost concentrated in such a narrow RPM band and would also be hard on components such as the trans, diff, drive shafts etc.
Might be safe to say the tuner you used might not have that much experience with boosted AMG V8’s in large sedans. His dyno readout is just plain weird compared to the DynoJet. Almost looks like he specializes in JDM and US domestic Japanese cars.
If possible find a Euro car specialist, definitely if your current tuner says he is a Euro specialist!
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