DbImok63

dbasons55

Good videos thanks for sharing

JumpinJim

Now put a full catless exhaust on the M5 like the CLS had and do it again.

ShellURT

I'm not sure what that would prove?

The techtec tuned cls63 biturbo just had a tune and devoured the PPP M5.

The M5 is supposed to have 680HP with just PPPs tune and was driven in Manual mode.

In fact the S4 C63 (heads, cams, naturally aspirated with 670HP) in Moscow just walked on the same 680HP PPP tuned F10 M5. Vids coming to the C63 section soon. They are already on MHPs site.

No matter how many videos I see the new M5s are dogs with or without tuning. All around the world from the gulf to russia to the U.S.

SLS Qatar

Hey Andy

Why dont you tell dima to race a PP-Performance CLS63

and lets see if he can do the same?

Lets see you run against this:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w218/4568...-rs-700-a.html

Car is now making 740hp on a dynomaha

Zod

All lies , all ur marketing is based on a lie
THERE is NO MHP Hardware or software, all are from other tuners and resold for more money through middle man re seller MHP X-)

ShellURT

Like death and taxes here in the U.S. hate from zod is inescapable from half a world away.

Again you are correct, the videos are all edited on a green screen, no cars actually raced these are all ficticious scenarios posted by Russians with a sense of humor just for you.

Please tell me where else you can buy a MHP S2 CLS63 Biturbo package other than MHP, a dealer or distributor. How about any of their other hardware?

Please post links (proof) to back your claims. Good luck.

emericr

Great videos and thanks for sharing.
What is the Pascal CLS63? Just stock PP? It seemed about even with M5.
What does the stage 2 MHP consists of? It did walk that M5 quite easily.
What does the PPP M5 package consists of?

JumpinJim

Pascal is a reseller of the techtec tune.

The MHP S2 iirc is tune, full exhuast including downpipes, filters, 180 thermostat.

PPP M5 is just a tune.

JumpinJim

Like for like. You're showing a tune only car vs a tuned car with more mods. Not a reasonable comparison.

Didn't look that way in the video.

They're overrating it. I think they're taking the assumed 600+ underating of the engine and adding theirs on top of it.

Plus headers and catless mids. An extensive mod list against a much heavier tune only car. Not proving much there.

I've seen them both ways. I'll know soon enough. I'll pit my stock M5 vs my stock non PP SL63. The SL63 already ate a tuned C63. The M5 feels stronger than the SL does.

ShellURT

My pleasure I had the easy job Dima had all the fun

Pascal is the owner of Techtec in Germany. His car is a tune only CLS63 from a reputable tuner which is why I said there's no need for a M5 with exhaust video as there is already a tune vs tune M157 vs F10 M5 video here and now.

MHP S2 for E/CLS63 Biturbo is ECU Tune + Full 3" Exhaust from Turbos to Tips. A bolt-on package using stock turbos. I have the same on my 2012 E63.

Corrections made above.

Techtec CLS63 vs PPP M5 is tune vs tune.


Check the C63 forum for new videos of the S4 C63 vs PPP tuned M5 vs Techtec tuned CLS63.


MF of TTR in Russia that did the M5 tuning via PPP said 680HP for the M5. Straight from the horses mouth.


Anything naturally aspirated eating the latest BMW M5 with TT and DI is an accomplishment my friend. Add FI or nitrous to the C63 to truly make it fair and it would be downright ugly.

Apples to Oranges but will be an interesting race to see nonetheless.

JumpinJim

The newest series it wasn't close. The one before they were running even. The one before that the videos has a stock M5 beating a PPP tuned CLS63. So what conclusion can be drawn? Stock M5s are faster than tuned CLS63s or PPP isn't very good at tuning cars? The two cars are direct competitors, a comparison of one with additional mods vs tune only only shows that more mods are better than less mods. Do exhaust on both and then it would be interesting. I had a tuned CLS63 for almost 2 years and traded it a week and a half ago for the M5. I know exactly what they're capable of. The CLS/E has a weak IC setup. Here in TX they heat soak very quickly. The M5 has a better setup that allows them stock to keep up with AMGs tuned offering. So I switched. And the SL made the CLS redundant.

In the tuning biz the horses mouth is more often than not the source of most of the exageration. Take everything with a spoonfull of salt. Inflated HP figures, different correction factors, favorable run conditions, exagerated drivetrain loss calculations.

No doubt it's a good accomplishment, with that list of extensive mods it should be. With downpipes the outcome would have been different as it was a pretty slow walk. Nitrous and bigger turbos can be applied to the other cars as well, it's a never ending battle of who can mod the most.

Nah, should be pretty close. M5 feels stronger, but that might be the DCT. SL seems really underrated however. Haven't dynoed it yet as it just hit 1000 miles. The C63 and SL weights are about the same and on paper the OE tuned C and the SL have similar HP, but the SL ran away from it.

AMG E Power

I guess the new M5 just is not as fast period. CLS AMG biturbo is my fav car hands down but if there was no AMG I would def be in a M5 they look awesome !

ShellURT

PPPerformance (according to their followers at least) is supposedly a good BMW tuner. Can't say much for anything MB that I've seen but TechTec is in fact a well respected MB and BMW tuner. I don't believe Techtec is even tuning M5s yet so I guess we'll see. Therefore what I see in these vids is a CLS63 biturbo with good MB tune vs a F10 M5 with what's allegedly a good BMW tune.

Heat soak sucks with forced induction no doubt. We've been in the mid 90s with humidity in the high 90s for the past 18 days and it's killing me. Today was our first day of a cool front coming through and I cant tell you how much we needed it. No question weather effects how certain cars perform some more than others. Abdullah (Alrasheed63 I think is his screen name) in Saudi Arabia in temps over 100 degrees F beat a 2013 SL63 in his S2.5CMR C63 (N/A bolt-on, no heads, cams) a few days ago. When IATs skyrocket there's not much you can do. There have been many (jbizzy, abdullah, humberto ferrier and others that post in the 204 section) C63s with just headers/tuning that beat stock F10 M5s here in the U.S. in varying weather conditions. You can find their posts and videos if you search for them on this site.


I'm not sure you can see inflated HP figures, correction factor variation or driveline losses in the videos and all cars were running at the same time, same road, in the same air. IMO at least racing one car vs another is the ultimate in deciding who really is kind of the road. You can manipulate a dyno, you can run downhill with a vbox to an extent but same place same race what can you do?


True but presently we are comparing NA to TT. NA to power adder. Adding nitrous to a TT car would be dual power adder which could also be done to the C63 and then it would basically come down to block strength and who could build the strongest trans or had the biggest wallet. Thats why I take things for what they are.


I was saying comparing your stock non PP SL to your stock M5 is quite different than comparing a tuned CLS vs a tuned M5.

I assume you mean CLS63 not C63? If so I think the SLs are around 150lbs lighter which isn't a huge difference. Makes me wonder if they have a sportier TCU cal than the CLS and Es. Would make sense based on the cost of the cars and MBs thinking relative to this.

Anyway my money says a your SL properly tuned will walk your M5 properly tuned, and the same if you put exhausts on both Just MHO take it fwiw.

ShellURT

I do like the look of the F10 M5 but am blown away by the M6 Sedan!!! If it had a 5.5L NA or TT V10 I'd own one.

TopGun32

Point taken that the 5.5TT does not have dual IC heat exchangers/cores like the 4.4TT M motor.. but it does not suffer from heat soak any more than the M5. I'm sure you seen the CLS63 vs M5 Edmunds dyno review.. where the M5 had a 50RWHP disperity between 10+ dyno runs.. and the CLS had none.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/t...no-tested.html

could of been the fans? well in that case both were tested in the same dyno and conditions. Maybe it needs air from the highway at certain speeds?

.. I have yet to see the IC core of the AMG show a weakness.. I don't think this forum has actively measured the IAT's and timing as they have done on the E55 forums.

Maybe the system is not as robust as the M's.. but not sure if that is translating into actual weakenss, at least there is no clear evidence yet.

Would be nice to data log both cars for boost, IAT's and engine timing and also how quickly they recover after WOT runs.

Zod

Dear god...proof he says
Where is MHP?
Tell me a forum in which they are not banned ?

so much drama its hard to hide

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...aling-him.html

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-question.html

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...thank-you.html

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...nal-proof.html

Search this on Google
The final nail in the MHP (Modern Horsepower / Andrew Cluck) "tuner" coffin? MHP business done? MHP M156 63 AMG "records" actually belong to another tuner

There is so much its never ending...and oh did i mention you are banned from pretty much all decent forums?

Stop cheating people, the amount you have accumulated over here is disgusting!

ShellURT

I have read all the linked threads as they were posted and am aware of the psychotic one known as Joseph Wilk owner of *********. Why the MB community isnt aware of his mental status like the BMW world is I just dont understand? Joe Wilk has been banned from every BMW forum in the world after creating hundreds of fake usernames and slamming dozens of legitimate vendors just like youre trying to do. Feel free to email the owners or admins of M5board, Bimmerforums, etc. He lives with his parents I and many others saw it on his driver license when the Eurocharged girls grabbed it out of his wallet last year at Timmayfest on the party bus. He lies that he attends law school, he doesnt go to school anywhere. He has the social skills of a pet rock and is clearly motivated to destroy MHP because he has personal issues with Andy its owner.

Other threads have been created by Phil Caggiano MHPs former software partner. Both Phil and his father Phil Caggianio Sr. are felons which anyone can google, in fact I posted proof in the linked thread of this. Phil was responsible for all glued and epoxied ECUs that MHP never approved of.

AutoTech doesnt even have a website and is riding MHPs coattails as the car they are toying with has all MHP mods on it. Too bad they cant get the cams to work because they burned their bridge with MHP.

I can go on and on but again you live on the other side of the world and just repost heresay and biased text because thats all you can do: Hate.

Youve never done anything yourself but have no problem talking crap about businesses that continuously put out quality product. I find it almost funny that with all the blown motor threads on this site and others you try to pull this tabloid crap out like it means something.

Post an invoice a receipt, something of merritt real proof please. Dont just link threads and repost heresay.

Ok Im off my horse and going back to the green screen to film more fake footage of PPPs cars getting stomped by everyone.

Oh did I mention the only forum Andy is banned from is this forum which has everything to do with this sites former administrators who are no longer here. Even Joseph Wilk has posted Andy can post on his forums however due to Josephs control (being able to wipe out a post due to his rep power) and the additional hits Andy posting on his site would cause he refuses. Love heresay, got anything else?

ShellURT

Good post. No matter how hot or humid it is outside my engine coolant temps never rise over 215 degrees F. Right now in summer with 90+F temps and high humidity I can do 3-5 highway pulls and get my oil temps (stock Mobil 1 oil) to 235 degrees F but they cool down to 210-212F within 2-3 minutes of cruising in 7th gear at 70mph. The longer I cruise the closer to 200 degrees F they go.

Compared to my E55 and CL65 this is a night and day difference, both would heat up and then never cool down unless I popped the hood and cracked 12 beers waiting. My E55 would lose 30rwhp between pulls on the dyno. Not so with the M157s.

I have also heard that later build M157s as in later 2012+ which is evidently not mine have a separate engine and intercooler cooling systems. If I have version 1 I bet version 2 is pretty damn good.

Ali_E55

oil temps at idle
stock : 100C - 105C
tuned: 84C - 88C

at crusing
stock : 110C
tuned : 84C and drops sometime to 78C (blue color )

at WOT:
stock : 125C
tuned : 115C

I have been testing and seeing my IATs, timings, etc

outside temp 30C
tuned with no intercoolers from 100km - 250km my IATs jump from 40C - 85C and my boost is 22PSI, catless exhuast (that IATs affect performance a lot ) cooling back takes 1 min crusing

timing is beeing pulled due to heat.

I installed split cooling system with addtional H/Es.

did not have the time to test it.


i remember that my car used to suffer alot because of high IATs.
sometimes if i race 5 - 6 times back to back, it goes to limp mode and drives like a 55k without S/C engaging

hopefully not anymore
now my IATs are cooler, will update more after testing it.



PS: see my sig pic for our temps in summer.

ShellURT

Excellent Info!!! Thank you for posting. How much was the conversion if you don't mind me asking? How involved? PM if you dont want to publish numbers.

Thank You!

emericr

Ali: Not sure I follow your comment about the tune making a difference in your oil temp.
Would the tuners somehow change the parameters of when the H/E works?

TMC M5

The M5's dual DMEs (ECUs) have been very difficult for tuners to crack (supposedly the only "true" tune is a development tune from BMW M division that somehow made its way out to some tuners and has been used as the basis for each tuner's "custom" tune). Anyway.... supposedly the DME is so sensitive that it will start doing crazy things on the dyno since it is sensing that the air speed and front wheels are not matching the rear wheel speed. So the loss in power may not be due toany sort of heat soak...but the DME pulling timing and boost because of conflicts in its various sensors.

TopGun32

ok.. but i'm sure there is a dyno mode on the M5, or else there bench testing of the engine would be off or when rolled off the factory dyno testing...

TMC M5

Supposedly BMW has a mini-book on the "proper" procedures for dynoing the F10 M5. I haven't seen it but I am going to try to get my hands on it since I would like to get a proper baseline.