CLS63 MHP S2 VS M5F10 PPP
07-12-2013, 03:08 PM
#26
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I'm not sure you can see inflated HP figures, correction factor variation or driveline losses in the videos and all cars were running at the same time, same road, in the same air. IMO at least racing one car vs another is the ultimate in deciding who really is kind of the road. You can manipulate a dyno, you can run downhill with a vbox to an extent but same place same race what can you do?
True but presently we are comparing NA to TT. NA to power adder. Adding nitrous to a TT car would be dual power adder which could also be done to the C63 and then it would basically come down to block strength and who could build the strongest trans or had the biggest wallet. Thats why I take things for what they are.
I assume you mean CLS63 not C63? If so I think the SLs are around 150lbs lighter which isn't a huge difference. Makes me wonder if they have a sportier TCU cal than the CLS and Es. Would make sense based on the cost of the cars and MBs thinking relative to this.
Anyway my money says a your SL properly tuned will walk your M5 properly tuned, and the same if you put exhausts on both
Just MHO take it fwiw.
Anyway my money says a your SL properly tuned will walk your M5 properly tuned, and the same if you put exhausts on both
Just MHO take it fwiw.
I never raced it against the tuned CLS. The outcome there would have been a given. Not sure about the TCU difference. The SL did feel sharper, but that might be because it was still new and tighter. The SL has a large advantage over the M5 in weight of about 250lbs. That DCT is quick though.
Last edited by JumpinJim; 07-12-2013 at 03:10 PM.
07-12-2013, 03:32 PM
#27
Super Member
Point taken that the 5.5TT does not have dual IC heat exchangers/cores like the 4.4TT M motor.. but it does not suffer from heat soak any more than the M5. I'm sure you seen the CLS63 vs M5 Edmunds dyno review.. where the M5 had a 50RWHP disperity between 10+ dyno runs.. and the CLS had none.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/t...no-tested.html
could of been the fans? well in that case both were tested in the same dyno and conditions. Maybe it needs air from the highway at certain speeds?
.. I have yet to see the IC core of the AMG show a weakness.. I don't think this forum has actively measured the IAT's and timing as they have done on the E55 forums.
Maybe the system is not as robust as the M's.. but not sure if that is translating into actual weakenss, at least there is no clear evidence yet.
Would be nice to data log both cars for boost, IAT's and engine timing and also how quickly they recover after WOT runs.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/t...no-tested.html
could of been the fans? well in that case both were tested in the same dyno and conditions. Maybe it needs air from the highway at certain speeds?
.. I have yet to see the IC core of the AMG show a weakness.. I don't think this forum has actively measured the IAT's and timing as they have done on the E55 forums.
Maybe the system is not as robust as the M's.. but not sure if that is translating into actual weakenss, at least there is no clear evidence yet.
Would be nice to data log both cars for boost, IAT's and engine timing and also how quickly they recover after WOT runs.
07-12-2013, 03:35 PM
#28
Super Member
I've heard this as well. The SL63 has a different setup and has a small IC reservoir as well under the hood. The CLS did not, it was a summer 2011 build.
have a separate engine and intercooler cooling systems. If I have version 1 I bet version 2 is pretty damn good. 
07-19-2013, 06:09 PM
#30
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What are you seeing as far as heatsoak with the SL63? One thign is for certain MB isnt done making hardware changes to these motors by a long shot!
07-19-2013, 06:13 PM
#31
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What I mean is I don't think the 680 PPP is quoting is accurate. M5s in particular are very strange when it comes to stock dyno figures. Some come in at ~480 and others have come in around ~530 stock on a dynojet. A huge discrepency and I've never seen such a wide variance in a stock car. BMW has been through no less than 3 airbox deisgns with the '13 M5 which may or may not contribute. Even C&D noticed how odd they were as one they tested was very quick and the other was very slow. Whem asked, BMW said maybe the slow one wasn't broke in right. Whatever. It's my belief that PPP is taking the strongest possible stock car dyno and adding their tune on top of it in converted crank #s then saying everyone gets that even though it's unlikely to be true. If you get one of the crappy M5s you'll end up with low 500s at the wheels and not the 600. Question is if that's PPPs fault or BMWs? The AMGs seem to be more consistent as my CLS put to the wheels what Renntech said it would.
I see what you're saying. It's a sad thing the NA engine is just about dead. I've been reading that the M5s axles cant take a lot of abuse, the cls was fond of snapping axles too. The SL63 shares the axles of the 65 so they're plenty beefy.
No, it was a OE tuned C63 coupe. The SL is only 50lbs heavier on a scale than the C coupe.
I never raced it against the tuned CLS. The outcome there would have been a given. Not sure about the TCU difference. The SL did feel sharper, but that might be because it was still new and tighter. The SL has a large advantage over the M5 in weight of about 250lbs. That DCT is quick though.
I see what you're saying. It's a sad thing the NA engine is just about dead. I've been reading that the M5s axles cant take a lot of abuse, the cls was fond of snapping axles too. The SL63 shares the axles of the 65 so they're plenty beefy.
No, it was a OE tuned C63 coupe. The SL is only 50lbs heavier on a scale than the C coupe.
I never raced it against the tuned CLS. The outcome there would have been a given. Not sure about the TCU difference. The SL did feel sharper, but that might be because it was still new and tighter. The SL has a large advantage over the M5 in weight of about 250lbs. That DCT is quick though.
Now posted S2 vs S2:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w218/5069...stage-2-a.html
07-30-2013, 06:41 PM
#32
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New Video!
S4 MHP (heads,cams,LTs, Xpipe, Airboxes) C63 vs Techtec S2 (ecu and exhaust) CLS63 Biturbo:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...3-biturbo.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...3-biturbo.html
07-30-2013, 09:41 PM
#33
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