MBH Official Monster Heat Exchanger release***Dyno!
08-10-2010, 12:28 AM
#1
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Thread Starter
MBH Official Monster Heat Exchanger release***Dyno!
I know its been long over due, from when I first mentioned the CLS 55 Monster Heat Exchanger.. After getting put on the back burner for a few header projects. We scrapped the original project. We set out to redesign how we think a heat exchanger should be made for this car.
Understanding that this forum has a bunch of DIY'er. While taking into consideration that R&Ring a front bumper can be a cumbersome task even for the moderately inclined weekend mechanic/modder. We also considered for the less mechanically inclined person. That Labor rates when installing new parts add to the total cost of getting a product installed on our car.
With hat said, We designed the MBH Monster Heat Exchanger to be 100% bolt-in with 2 screws. Just about a direct replacement to the stock unit! All of this while, not having to remove the front bumper.
While doing all this.. We added mounting brackets so the stock power steering cooler can fit back into virtually its stock location... Using all the pre-existing fasteners.
Our Theory:
We wanted to design a heat exchanger that exposed more frontal surface area. Rather than thinking about over all (end tanks included) capacity of the heat exchanger, total cubic inches, thinkness . We were able to see, what we feel are great results. While only using 1 liter of fluid! We were able to do this by exposing most of the fluid in direct contact with the cooler air coming in.
The mantra was "Taller and thinner rather than shorter and thicker"
Wile most heat exchangers hold about 1.6-1.8 liters of fluid. A lot of this can be attributed to the over all size of the end tanks. In turn, making a large holding tank for the fluid before it is pumped into the system. Were as this may cause the fluid to warm up... Even after its been cooled.
With that said, Most of our fluid is being held in the heat exchanger itself rather than holding tanks on the side.
A few Specs
-35 rows tall
-100% TIG welded end tanks and mounting brackets
-1 liter capacity
-292.5 square inches of frontal surface area in direct contact with cool air.
-100% bolt-on
-Double pass through design
Testing
On our test CLS 55. It is fitted with the MBH long tube headers. After installing this heat exchanger to the STOCK PUMP we seen a dyno gain of about 12whp, just by adding this heat exchanger!
Conditions is the shop were 98 degrees and about 36% humidity. While monitoring charge temps via STAR DAS. We seen a idle temp of about 111 degrees on the dyno (fans off). Thats 13 degrees above ambient temp.
Durning dyno runs. Temps climbed to about 146 degrees at redline. Changing only 46 degrees above ambient temps. Reaching a max speed on the dyno off about 120mph. With a only some floor fans. Then falling back to 118 degrees with in seconds. and then back to 111 degrees before the CLS could cost to a stop on the dyno. We were able to repeat the dyno gains run after run, with results staying very constant. All this on the STOCK INTERCOOLER PUMP! and with 20mph dyno fans!
The Dyno chart below shows this CLS 55's best run with only long tube headers and then with the MBH Monster Heat Exchanger. You can see the power come in around 4500 RPM's... Thats were most cars start to pull timing due to High IAT's. In our case the CLS was actually adding timing on a very hot day!
I think my brother has had enough of testing for a while, but I will try to talk him into some street testing. However he just got a ticket the other night.. So I'm not sure if he's up to it.
Without further ado.. It brings me great pleasures to offer you guys a product I've been working on for so long..
Price is set a $649.99 And we are ready to take orders.
Quick video of run with some IAT monitoring via Star DAS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq6N5jcIgBg
Understanding that this forum has a bunch of DIY'er. While taking into consideration that R&Ring a front bumper can be a cumbersome task even for the moderately inclined weekend mechanic/modder. We also considered for the less mechanically inclined person. That Labor rates when installing new parts add to the total cost of getting a product installed on our car.
With hat said, We designed the MBH Monster Heat Exchanger to be 100% bolt-in with 2 screws. Just about a direct replacement to the stock unit! All of this while, not having to remove the front bumper.
While doing all this.. We added mounting brackets so the stock power steering cooler can fit back into virtually its stock location... Using all the pre-existing fasteners.
Our Theory:
We wanted to design a heat exchanger that exposed more frontal surface area. Rather than thinking about over all (end tanks included) capacity of the heat exchanger, total cubic inches, thinkness . We were able to see, what we feel are great results. While only using 1 liter of fluid! We were able to do this by exposing most of the fluid in direct contact with the cooler air coming in.
The mantra was "Taller and thinner rather than shorter and thicker"
Wile most heat exchangers hold about 1.6-1.8 liters of fluid. A lot of this can be attributed to the over all size of the end tanks. In turn, making a large holding tank for the fluid before it is pumped into the system. Were as this may cause the fluid to warm up... Even after its been cooled.
With that said, Most of our fluid is being held in the heat exchanger itself rather than holding tanks on the side.
A few Specs
-35 rows tall
-100% TIG welded end tanks and mounting brackets
-1 liter capacity
-292.5 square inches of frontal surface area in direct contact with cool air.
-100% bolt-on
-Double pass through design
Testing
On our test CLS 55. It is fitted with the MBH long tube headers. After installing this heat exchanger to the STOCK PUMP we seen a dyno gain of about 12whp, just by adding this heat exchanger!
Conditions is the shop were 98 degrees and about 36% humidity. While monitoring charge temps via STAR DAS. We seen a idle temp of about 111 degrees on the dyno (fans off). Thats 13 degrees above ambient temp.
Durning dyno runs. Temps climbed to about 146 degrees at redline. Changing only 46 degrees above ambient temps. Reaching a max speed on the dyno off about 120mph. With a only some floor fans. Then falling back to 118 degrees with in seconds. and then back to 111 degrees before the CLS could cost to a stop on the dyno. We were able to repeat the dyno gains run after run, with results staying very constant. All this on the STOCK INTERCOOLER PUMP! and with 20mph dyno fans!
The Dyno chart below shows this CLS 55's best run with only long tube headers and then with the MBH Monster Heat Exchanger. You can see the power come in around 4500 RPM's... Thats were most cars start to pull timing due to High IAT's. In our case the CLS was actually adding timing on a very hot day!
I think my brother has had enough of testing for a while, but I will try to talk him into some street testing. However he just got a ticket the other night.. So I'm not sure if he's up to it.
Without further ado.. It brings me great pleasures to offer you guys a product I've been working on for so long..
Price is set a $649.99 And we are ready to take orders.
Quick video of run with some IAT monitoring via Star DAS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq6N5jcIgBg
Last edited by MBH motorsports; 08-10-2010 at 02:30 AM.
08-10-2010, 06:12 AM
#2
MBWorld Fanatic!
great product it's always a pleasure to see your latest releases for the amount of research and engineering you put in doing 'em.
a thin and wider panel is everywhere written to be better than a thicker one.
If I am not wrong this is along the design of former S-class HE design ..
I am left with only one doubt: what happens to engine's temp, now that its radiator is quite fully behind this one ?
btw, did you see along your research if there is room enough to install add-on HEs, horizontally ?
ps: just add a pic comparing the stock HE to this new one !
08-10-2010, 07:50 AM
#3
Senior Member
new Heat exchanger on the market
Thanks MBH , for a new product
But , I agreed with Dyno, your test is inconclusive ,, what's the engine temps with the radiator blocked , also can you run this exchanger in series with the original . I'm asking these question because , I have a car with the stock exchanger and haven't bought bigger/better he or secondary one yet.. People don't have money to burn on products that don't really work or cause other problems . That's the point of modding better performance not less and more problems ... " Thanks" Badm
I'd like to see all these HE's tested by a neutral party , MBH, EVOS, Eurocharger, Kleeman, Renntech ,PLM , who ever .. we need the Facts . as it relates to MONEY ... installs , performance etc .
But , I agreed with Dyno, your test is inconclusive ,, what's the engine temps with the radiator blocked , also can you run this exchanger in series with the original . I'm asking these question because , I have a car with the stock exchanger and haven't bought bigger/better he or secondary one yet.. People don't have money to burn on products that don't really work or cause other problems . That's the point of modding better performance not less and more problems ... " Thanks" Badm
I'd like to see all these HE's tested by a neutral party , MBH, EVOS, Eurocharger, Kleeman, Renntech ,PLM , who ever .. we need the Facts . as it relates to MONEY ... installs , performance etc .
08-10-2010, 09:17 AM
#4
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Thread Starter
Because this cars supercharging cooling system is not independent or "split" form the main engine cooling. This Heat exchanger actually was helping to cool the engine.
Coolant temps never reached over 200 degrees F (about 90 degrees C).Thats with run after run and we were hot lapping this CLS on the dyno. In the video the temp above the "Charge temp" was engine coolant temp and that reached 196F or 90C. If I recall, I dont have STAR DAS in front of me
Coolant temps never reached over 200 degrees F (about 90 degrees C).Thats with run after run and we were hot lapping this CLS on the dyno. In the video the temp above the "Charge temp" was engine coolant temp and that reached 196F or 90C. If I recall, I dont have STAR DAS in front of me
Last edited by MBH motorsports; 08-10-2010 at 09:19 AM.
08-10-2010, 09:36 AM
#5
Super Member
How long will it take for you to ship one after payment?
Also have you tried to measure wind speed from the factory fan with an anemometer to see how much flow is through this. That would be an easy test of restriction. Read it once not in place and once with it in place. The A/C should be enough to trigger the fan.
Also have you tried to measure wind speed from the factory fan with an anemometer to see how much flow is through this. That would be an easy test of restriction. Read it once not in place and once with it in place. The A/C should be enough to trigger the fan.
Last edited by Roverron; 08-10-2010 at 09:41 AM.
08-10-2010, 09:38 AM
#6
MBWorld Fanatic!
guys, dont take me wrong: I did not want to say that there will not be enough cooling for the engine but, taking the occasion that DAS is connected, it could just be interesting to see what happens !
that the wide front HE is a viable option, we don't need proofs: if you look below you see that it is the stock system in CL 55K !
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
but, if I can't avoid remember all the efforts of member Exotic-Metall (who has a CL55) at improving his cooling !
further, we have below the system in S55: it can be considered an improvement in what it combines in series the wide front HE to and additional HE like ours ...
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I don't know what were the reasons why MB decided to skip that design for following cars ...
but, again, I can't avoid remembering forum members, like STEVEBEZ for example, who upgraded to that same mod, but is still looking for something better ...
From this point of view, the replacement part by MBH can be looked as a nice "bolt-on" part, as the HE of CL/S-55 do NOT directly fit in our CLS.
as I see a lot of people struggling with rear reservoirs and other cooling mods, I was just wondering at why not other options on the front. for example:
a)- multiple staggered front cores
b)- horizontal cores
I was reading that using simple oil-coolers as additional HeatExchangers (to be put under the original oil cooler and / or in other locations (maybe helped by suitable scoops)
is something proved in other applications to be easy enough and beneficial ...
that the wide front HE is a viable option, we don't need proofs: if you look below you see that it is the stock system in CL 55K !
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
but, if I can't avoid remember all the efforts of member Exotic-Metall (who has a CL55) at improving his cooling !
further, we have below the system in S55: it can be considered an improvement in what it combines in series the wide front HE to and additional HE like ours ...
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I don't know what were the reasons why MB decided to skip that design for following cars ...
but, again, I can't avoid remembering forum members, like STEVEBEZ for example, who upgraded to that same mod, but is still looking for something better ...
From this point of view, the replacement part by MBH can be looked as a nice "bolt-on" part, as the HE of CL/S-55 do NOT directly fit in our CLS.
as I see a lot of people struggling with rear reservoirs and other cooling mods, I was just wondering at why not other options on the front. for example:
a)- multiple staggered front cores
b)- horizontal cores
I was reading that using simple oil-coolers as additional HeatExchangers (to be put under the original oil cooler and / or in other locations (maybe helped by suitable scoops)
is something proved in other applications to be easy enough and beneficial ...
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08-10-2010, 09:47 AM
#9
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Thread Starter
guys, dont take me wrong: I did not want to say that there will not be enough cooling for the engine but, taking the occasion that DAS is connected, it could just be interesting to see what happens !
that the wide front HE is a viable option, we don't need proofs: if you look below you see that it is the stock system in CL 55K !
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
but, if I can't avoid remember all the efforts of member Exotic-Metall (who has a CL55) at improving his cooling !
further, we have below the system in S55: it can be considered an improvement in what it combines in series the wide front HE to and additional HE like ours ...
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I don't know what were the reasons why MB decided to skip that design for following cars ...
but, again, I can't avoid remembering forum members, like STEVEBEZ for example, who upgraded to that same mod, but is still looking for something better ...
From this point of view, the replacement part by MBH can be looked as a nice "bolt-on" part, as the HE of CL/S-55 do NOT directly fit in our CLS.
as I see a lot of people struggling with rear reservoirs and other cooling mods, I was just wondering at why not other options on the front. for example:
a)- multiple staggered front cores
b)- horizontal cores
I was reading that using simple oil-coolers as additional HeatExchangers (to be put under the original oil cooler and / or in other locations (maybe helped by suitable scoops)
is something proved in other applications to be easy enough and beneficial ...
that the wide front HE is a viable option, we don't need proofs: if you look below you see that it is the stock system in CL 55K !
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
but, if I can't avoid remember all the efforts of member Exotic-Metall (who has a CL55) at improving his cooling !
further, we have below the system in S55: it can be considered an improvement in what it combines in series the wide front HE to and additional HE like ours ...
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I don't know what were the reasons why MB decided to skip that design for following cars ...
but, again, I can't avoid remembering forum members, like STEVEBEZ for example, who upgraded to that same mod, but is still looking for something better ...
From this point of view, the replacement part by MBH can be looked as a nice "bolt-on" part, as the HE of CL/S-55 do NOT directly fit in our CLS.
as I see a lot of people struggling with rear reservoirs and other cooling mods, I was just wondering at why not other options on the front. for example:
a)- multiple staggered front cores
b)- horizontal cores
I was reading that using simple oil-coolers as additional HeatExchangers (to be put under the original oil cooler and / or in other locations (maybe helped by suitable scoops)
is something proved in other applications to be easy enough and beneficial ...
08-10-2010, 09:48 AM
#10
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Thread Starter
08-10-2010, 09:54 AM
#11
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Thread Starter
I forgot to add, You have to relocate the horn. Its just a matter of unbloting it and bolting it to the heat exchanger.
08-10-2010, 09:57 AM
#12
MBWorld Fanatic!
yes, iirc it should have the S55K design with 2 HEs ..
while your new product is a replacement, not an add-on, to our stock core, right ?
please post a pic showing how it appears from front
EDIT: ... you were reading in my mind ...
EDIT again: SL 230 should be like the first of the pictures i attached, where it is written: model 215 -230
while your new product is a replacement, not an add-on, to our stock core, right ?
please post a pic showing how it appears from front
EDIT: ... you were reading in my mind ...
EDIT again: SL 230 should be like the first of the pictures i attached, where it is written: model 215 -230
Last edited by dyno; 08-10-2010 at 10:06 AM.
08-10-2010, 10:11 AM
#13
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Thread Starter
yes, iirc it should have the S55K design with 2 HEs ..
while your new product is a replacement, not an add-on, to our stock core, right ?
please post a pic showing how it appears from front
EDIT: ... you were reading in my mind ...
EDIT again: SL 230 should be like the first of the pictures i attached, where it is written: model 215 -230
while your new product is a replacement, not an add-on, to our stock core, right ?
please post a pic showing how it appears from front
EDIT: ... you were reading in my mind ...
EDIT again: SL 230 should be like the first of the pictures i attached, where it is written: model 215 -230
I thought about make a supplemental unit. Keeping install in mind, It was just easier to just replace the whole thing.
08-10-2010, 10:52 AM
#14
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2004 S55 (SOLD, miss it every day), 2009 GL550
08-10-2010, 11:00 AM
#15
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08-10-2010, 07:11 PM
#16
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Whatever we're tuning!
Well thought out and awesome design!!
Raising that bar once again Mike!
I have something in the works for the cooling of the 55's too!
MBH/Dyno Comp..........'NUFF SAID!
Raising that bar once again Mike!
I have something in the works for the cooling of the 55's too!
MBH/Dyno Comp..........'NUFF SAID!
08-10-2010, 07:27 PM
#17
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SRT-6
I have a huge intercooler (gallon radiator) in front of my engine radiator. The coolant temps run about 5º more than before the install. But on my car (SRT-6) I only have 1 inch space between the two of them. If I run the air conditioner around town (fans on) it runs cooler than before. Looking at the pictures of the distance between the two, it shouldn't be a problem at all. Oh, I had to relocate my horns and power steering lines.
Les
Les
08-10-2010, 07:37 PM
#18
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2003 porsche 996 turbo
would somebody care to explain to me how you get a 12 hp inc by cooling the water? i understand the cooler the fluid the longer the engine will run at peak power before heatsoak sets in but how does it inc hp? i have run numerous dyno runs and have the largest h/e made. 26x16x1. it allowed me to dyno for longer periods of time but not a single hp inc. someone enlighten me please
08-10-2010, 08:24 PM
#20
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Thread Starter
would somebody care to explain to me how you get a 12 hp inc by cooling the water? i understand the cooler the fluid the longer the engine will run at peak power before heatsoak sets in but how does it inc hp? i have run numerous dyno runs and have the largest h/e made. 26x16x1. it allowed me to dyno for longer periods of time but not a single hp inc. someone enlighten me please
My crazy theory is.. It really could depend on your end tanks. I'm not saying mine are the optimal size, or even what that optimal size is. But if they are big, that fluid could be sitting in the end tanks longer... waiting for its turn to be pumped in to the I/C. Once the fluid is out of the core it starts heating up. Its easier to cool down less fluid than more. One last crazy idea... Maybe the stock I/C pump flows the fluid at a optimal rate, seeing that this H/E only holds 1 liter of fluid. I might need to consult Bill Nye on this one. lol
Last edited by MBH motorsports; 08-10-2010 at 08:30 PM.
08-11-2010, 05:11 AM
#21
MBWorld Fanatic!
so, are you experiencing less over-heating with your SL55 compared to your bro's CLS55 ?
any other difference ... for example the fan working quicjer and longer ?
and, didn't you try to add in your SL an HE like the one we have at bottom ..
sorry for so many questions, but you having both SL and CLS turns out being an interesting source of info for understanding the difference in design followed by MB : tha S-class had both could lead my reasoning to think that MB wanted to sove a few $$ with E/CLS, but the fact that SL, which is not cheaper than S, has one only HE is a mistery ..
08-11-2010, 05:25 AM
#22
MBWorld Fanatic!
would somebody care to explain to me how you get a 12 hp inc by cooling the water? i understand the cooler the fluid the longer the engine will run at peak power before heatsoak sets in but how does it inc hp? i have run numerous dyno runs and have the largest h/e made. 26x16x1. it allowed me to dyno for longer periods of time but not a single hp inc. someone enlighten me please
if you do the first run of the test session (or when weather is cold enough) with stock HE, you should not experience any HP difference.
personally, I have seen that after about 3-5 dyno pulls the ecu pulls timing and lowers boost at least .2 Bars, compared to former runs.
08-11-2010, 09:45 AM
#23
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CLS 55 AMG, FX45, F-350, Top Secret Widebody Supra (Sold) and other vehicles on another Planet
Wow. I was in the market for one of these and couldn't decide which one to go with. It looks like I might be swaying my arm (and wallet) towards you guys.
08-12-2010, 01:30 AM
#25
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