Jim Banville

We're talking for the common 1 to 1.5" drop with the most popular springs (H&R, Eibach, etc.).

thanks
Jim

Harris

Much better if you matched with aftermarket shocks because factory shocks are never meant to sustain the pressure of the aftermarket springs. But if you dont change it, only your shocks will die faster.

Jim Banville

Not to sound argumentative, but who's to say the stock shocks can't take the slightly shorter springs. I mean, I assume they are built by some "brand name" shock company and put in a "plain wrapper" as an OEM part. Anyone know who makes the W203 shocks? If you were to buy, for example, a pair of H&R or Eibach springs, how do you know what shocks to replace the originals with? You wouldn't just buy any old Belstein shock, for example, on the assumption that it must be "better" than stock, right? Do sport springs come with big warning signs on their boxes that say that your stock shocks won't last very long?

And people, please don't respond with a "well then just leave you stock shocks on and see for yourself" since I really want to know the facts here and not opinions. I want lowering springs (1 to 1.5") for appearance only,and I don't want to ruin my shocks.

thanks

Harris

Jim, you said you wanted to lower your car but doesnt want to ruin your shocks and I am only telling you there is a higher chance that your shocks will be ruined. I didnt say stock shocks CANT take slightly shorter springs, I said stock shocks will die faster with shorter springs. Its not an absolute "No". A lot of people just chaged their springs only. I am only saying the stock shocks' life expectancy will be shorter. Most people would recommend you to get a set of performance shocks in order to get optimal performance.

A lowering spring has less coils vs. ordinary springs and it's also stiffer. Which means it will not bonce as much as normal springs, which means more pressure will be transferred to the shocks. Now that your car is stiffer, your shocks will have to work harder to sustain the pressure, and they're not designed to sustain the extra pressure day in and day out, thats why I said it will wear out sooner. I am sure MB must have done extensive research as to which shocks/springs combination is best for our cars. From what I was told by the MB parts guy, MB stock shocks as well as the AMG shocks are all made by Bilstein. And because they are Bilstein shocks and very well made, they will not die as fast as others. But if you compare a C240 with aftermarket springs vs. one without, the one with aftermarket springs will definitely need to change shocks sooner.

I guess I havent helped much. But hope you do have a clearer picture. Good luck!! :p

Jim Banville

Harris, this is what I don't understand. My understanding is that a car is actually supported by the springs and shocks simply damp the flexing action of the spring. If you put on a spring that was just as tall as stock, but wasn't as stiff, the shocks would work MUCH harder while trying to control the additional flexing of the weaker srping. By the same token, a stiffer spring than stock will not flex as much as the stock spring, giving the shock a little less work. I think the kids I see bouncing around in their slammed late 80's Civic's simply cut their stock springs. I would think that as long as the shorter "sport" spring has designed to be as stiff or stiffer than stock when taking in its height as part of the equation, the OEM shock doesn't "know" the difference. But I could be completely wrong

Harris

Your car will sit lower with lowering springs, therefore, the shocks will compress more just by standing still. The shocks are not meant to be compressed with the lowered height, and if you run over bumps, the shocks will be compressed two times more than what they are supposed to compress. Do you get the idea now?

Jim Banville

I guess it would depend on how much "play" is built into the stock shocks, no. Also, I'm not that familiar with shock construction. Is the pressure in a shock "fixed", or can it adjust over time? In other words, if you put downward pressure on its piston, does the pressure built up behind the piston eventually equalize with that pressure in front of it after a long period of time? In other words, does the pressure "normalize"? I imagine it would since there are probably a lot more applications than unique shocks to fit them. What makes an aftermarket shock better than stock. I just hate the idea that we're assuming that an aftermarket shock is so much better than the MB OEM unit, not knowing the construction of specs of the OEM MB unit. Know what I mean? I'd hate to think that if I carpooled with a couple of large people in my backseat which caused the car's rear to sit 1" lower, I would ruin my rear shocks in a year

bagwell

Eibach says they're springs CAN be used with OEM shocks...I think a few people have done this and are very happy with the ride quality....

of course as Harris says, it still might speed up wear on the shocks.

I want to do the same thing...lower it 1-11/2" with no harshness...I have 17's and the ride is harsh enuff with those.

I heard Eibach are the way to go - very good ride comfort --

BTW Harris is a "PRO" on the subject....look at some of his other threads !

amdeutsch

JamE55

I agree with Harris! And can tell you from experience that if you change springs and use stock shocks they will not last very long because they're not matched. Again speaking with experience i would highly recommend changing shocks when and if you change springs.

Franco

H&R told me that I was not required to change the stock shocks with their Sport Springs. I have the H&R Sport Spring / Stock Shock combo on my 2002 C240 with 18'' BBS CH Wheels and Kumho 225-40-18 tires. The ride is surprisingly comfortable and the handling much improved.

The stock shocks will not last as long with the sports springs installed. How long the stock shocks will last will depend on your driving style and the roads you drive on.

If you put a lot of mileage on your car or you want to improve your handling even further, then I would suggest that you also upgrade the stock shocks with a set of shocks that matches the springs you will select.

Otherwise, just change the springs and have the car aligned.

PS.
You will also get more tire wear when you lower your car.
Everything has its price!

Harris

Please dont say that! I am far from a PRO. If a PRO is an univeristy graduate, I am only in Grade 8!! I just want to help out and share info that I know. I might be wrong in the end. But this one I am pretty sure I am right. :p

Allow me to clarify one more time: I dont think our shocks will die within a year or so if you put aftermarket springs on your car. Its just the "Life Expectancy" of your stock shocks will be shortened becuase of this modification. You can certainly put Eibach, H&R or whatever springs on, only expect the OEM shocks will not last as long as it should be. As Franco says, "everything has its price!"

T0ked

Shocks are designed for specific applications, and such they have an optimum range of operation. If the car sits too low, the shocks will not be working very efficiently. Also the valving should be matched to the spring rate. Your springs can over power your shocks and that's what gives a lot of slammed cars that real bouncy ride. The lower your car, the less wheel travel and so your shocks must work harder to prevent "bottoming" where the springs are fully compressed or where your suspension hits the bump stops. Many aftermarket performance shocks are much stiffer which in effect doesn't allow the performance springs, which have higher spring rates, to rebound so quickly, etc. This is also why there are shorter shocks for people who slam their cars serious inches. So yes, lowering your car will make your shocks work harder, and shorten their life, but dropping your car 1-2" shouldn't dramatically change much.

Class C

I had H&R sport springs before. My stock shocks lasted about 6 months. I didn't really realized my ride was really bad until I rode in my friends 320 who had the H&R cup kit.

I tell you guys, BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!!

Your shocks should definitely match or those shocks won't last to long. I give them about less then a year, then it's ricer time
Your car will be doing the "Rump shaker" going down the freeway!

vyse

Well, even though the stock shocks are designed for the stock springs, everything is designed with a safety factor (or at least that's what our professors recommend us to do ), and I'm pretty sure they'd probably work within the acceptable range if you only lower it 1" or so. Now, getting lowering springs, and then cutting them is probably not a good idea.

steve s

as many have said...stock shocks with shorter/stiffer springs will probably be ok...but it will also probably wear out the stock shocks faster if u had shorter/stiffer springs. have u seen some of the lowered ricers where it gets kinda jiggly and bounce up and down as u watch them roll down the street? that's what happens when u take super stiff springs and don't match them with high enough rebound control. the shocks just cannot control the springs moving up and down. that's taken to one extreme. now take it to the other extreme...use stock springs and super stiff shocks, and i think what happens is as u compress, ok..but the spring doesn't have enough poundage/strength to return to normal height because the rebound is so stiff. in the end u get lower and lower and lower and u bottom out.

shocks are meant to dampen the springs, they use frictional forces (oil usually) to dampen the oscillation in a spring when springs compress and extend. in most cases, higher performance shock absorbers offer improved damping over a broader temperature range. this allows the shock absorbers to effectively work when subjected to rapid movements over a long period of time.

think old 80s caddi boats. they have really soft suspensions, what u see is the car undulate up and down kinda slowly...hence "boat." the springs can compress really far before extending. also, since the spring rate is low, it doesn't extend as fast, and so the shocks don't have to work so hard to dampen the effect. heck, even the last generation caddi (before sts and dts) were like that. u could feel the car moving slowly up and down the suspension. take our c36, the springs are significantly stiffer...so when it compresses, it immediately extends back to normal ride height. if the shock doesn't dampen quick enough (with higher rebound rates), then the springs will over extend and start pulling back and compressing again.

i'm babbling here, hopefully, it's a little helpful...

CarlssonPower

Just get the H&R cup kits. They are springs and shocks in one convience package so you don't need to search for matching shocks. =)