yeloaw

Refering to w203
So whats the deal? I've done extensive research on these boards about lowering your rides with H&R Eibach Vogtland, my question still remains. If I lower my car with springs will I need to replace the stock shocks? Does it depend on brand? I have read that H&R claims their springs work fine with the stock shocks, however I've also heard from members here that the shocks will give out after 20k and new ones will be needed. Likewise with Eibachs, will the springs work with stock shocks? I'm looking for springs that will be compatible with stock shocks so that the shocks won't give out. I'm as confused as ever. I know for the best ride I should replace the shocks too, however I'm just curious to know whether new shocks are a necessity.

mmgrad

here's the down low... if you change to aftermarket springs, your car will sit lower, of course... which means, your stock shocks will be compressed more, and they aren't designed to stay compressed that much for such prolonged periods of time... therefore, the end results are, your stock shocks will be quick short lived... probably need to replace after 10-20K miles, depending on how low you drop it...

so, i'd advice that you switch over to a sport shock.... something that is designed for aftermarket lowering springs

Harris

Yes, its true that aftermarket springs will shorten the stock shocks life expectancy. But not to the extent that some people are suggesting. I think 20K miles is a bit exaggerated.

The fact is: how many people with aftermarket springs have reported that their shocks have died after 20K miles? I am looking for the actual reported number, not just "I heard this" or "I heard that". All the major MB tuners are offering lowering springs as a stand alone item for sale, if these springs will cause the shocks to fail that fast, do you think they will sell? Remember they are all major tuners specializing in Mercedes and nothing else. Our stock shocks are made by the biggest shocks manufacturer in the world - Bilstein. I honestly believe these shocks can certainly sustain the added compression from the springs longer than 20K miles. Dont they build a little cushion for their products?

Getting matched shocks is not a must, only a recommendation. For some people, they keep telling you to get matched shocks + springs mainly because they want to make more money (please dont misinterpret here: I mean dealers are making more money, I am NOT saying matched springs + shocks is a waste of money, I favor this idea). If you have a deep pocket, yes, definitely matched shocks + springs, or even coilovers. But spings alone is not that scary. If these shocks do fail one day, replacing them will still cost LESS than getting matched shocks or coilovers now!!

Hope this helps!!

Mach430

I completely disagree here, and while it is in the short term more costly to change your shocks at the same time, in the long run it will save you time and money. Unless you baby your car, or only drive in traffic, you will easily wear through your shocks in less than 20,000 miles. In most cases it would be 5,000-10,000. Springs are offered by tuners as an entry level suspension upgrade, and they provide that. However, there will come a time, depending on your driving style, that you will find your stock shocks no longer functioning properly.

The stock dampener is designed to ride at a specific height with a specific spring rate. Lowering the height and increasing the spring rate puts the shock at a height where it is constantly working more, and under new compression working far more. It is not uncommon to hit the bumpstops using this combination; especially after a few thousand miles. For the same reason why aftermarket shock upgrades are not designed for the stock spring heights, stock shocks are not designed for aftermarket spring heights/rates.

Ultimately, you will need to change your shocks, and this will not be covered under warranty--as the aftermarket springs will be the cause of their failure. This means that you will be paying for installation twice.

I have friends, customers, and co-workers who can all attest to this. Most people start with just the springs, but you will at some point need to go further.

Thanks,
Ben

Harris

Ben, I share the EXACT same logic with you. I completely agree with your reasoning. I am not discouraging people from buying matched spings and shocks. In fact, I supported the idea. What I'm trying to say and IMHO, its NOT a must.

HOWEVER, how many people have reported on this board over the past year that "I've bought a set of springs for my car, but now the shocks are dead"? I am not referring to your "friends, co-workers, customers" only, I mean actual report from members in here. And if you think getting springs alone is not a good idea, why do you let your friends & co-workers buy only the springs in the first place? Hahaha! I totally agree most people just start with springs, and I, too, think at some point its better to go further. But for a starter with a limited budget, getting springs alone isnt a bad idea, right? :p

Mach430

Right, it's better than nothing, but people should know what they are getting themselves into. There have been quite a few people on the forum to say that their car no longer handles properly months after installing only springs. Springs are cheaper, and are a great upgrade for the cost, but in the long run, it is both cheaper and better to do both.

Thanks,
Ben

mmgrad

Ok... I will attest to that claim then...

Although, not on my benz, on my previous car, I had installed aftermarket springs, and I thought I'd save on the shocks by using the stock ones. Changing the rims and springs, it created about a 2" drop.

After about 8,000 miles of moderate to aggressive driving, I decided to mount the factory springs & factory wheels back since I was considering selling the car.

And guess what, too late, the shocks were dead... well, at least the front left shock died, the others were still ok. But that left the front left corner of the car 'bouncing' on every bump on the road...

charnchon

Hey Everyone!

I'm also thinking about lowering the car with H&R or Eibach springs.

I actually plan to do it tomorrow. It's great to see this post before I go.

OK I will go with the idea of changing both springs and shocks. Can you please recommend the best one that will fit my W203? This is a new car and it's one month old today. My requirement is the soft riding (as much as the sport suspension can give). What brand, please? If the budget is not a problem.

Thank you :-)

P.S. Does anyone who how the camber need to be adjusted? How much positive/negative does it need? It's difficult to find a good alignment shop and I'm a kind of person who will gone cracy if the wheels are not aligned properly

Mach430

How much are you looking to lower the car?

charnchon

No more than 40 mm. There are bigger gaps on the front. If possible, I want the solution that lower front more than rear (if that's not making a car loosing balance).

charnchon

here's a pic pf my car.
you may notice the huge space in the front's wheel arch. I want to cut it down to 1/2" space. I'm also concerned the rear 9.5"x18". I don't want to modify fenders.

There's about 40 mm space at rear and 60mm space at front.

Mach430

With budget not being a problem, I would highly recommend the H&R coilovers. We have them on our C32 with our sway bars, and the car is both comfortable and handles awesome.

C230Kompressed

how bout a group buy on some springs with shocks, is anyone down for this idea?

Harris

Since you have Brabus wheels, it may not be a bad idea if you want to go Brabus all the way and get the Brabus full suspension (shocks + spings). You may want to take a look at what "MBZ4LIFE" has to say about them on this thread: https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...0&pagenumber=2

Brabus uses the same suspension kit for both W209 and W203.

charnchon

Harris,

I want my car to be lowered just like one of a car posted on your web site - http://www.hartonmotorwerks.com/gall...4/car4pic1.jpg

Did you use the AMG springs alone? It look like the front was lower than the rear. Very nice looking. I like it.

Harris

That is not my car, its one of my client's car. He just put a set of AMG springs on his car. Because he has 19" wheels, thats why you think he has lowered a lot, but in fact, just a bit. Let me find out from him and see if he has done anything else to his car.

yeloaw

A Group buy on the H&R cup kit would be nice.

C230Kompressed

and some nice shocks too. koni adjustables?