The Classic Brake Pad Dilemma
10-02-2012, 02:12 PM
#1
Super Member
Thread Starter
The Classic Brake Pad Dilemma
I am looking at brake pad options because I want very low brake dust, low noise, and pads that are gentle on my rotors (pads can wear out faster though), yet with good initial bite. Operating temperature is of no concern as this will be daily driven (can save current Renntech pads for track use if any) and it does not snow here either. I would even sacrifice ultimate braking for good initial bite. Cost is not a factor for the right product, brake pads are all relatively inexpensive when compared to other brake components IMO.
Tire rack's tech page has me thinking that I should really get ceramics given my search parameters: http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/tech/...currentpage=80
Now then, there are two main choices I've seen but would consider others if they are out there (but not EBC given the amount of negative feeedback out there and hit/miss reputation). I would consider the Akebono ceramics but it doesn't appear they are available for CLK63 brakes (no fronts, only rears on tire rack web site).
1) Hawk Performance Ceramic:
http://www.hawkperformance.com/performance/ceramic.php
These look promising but I have had Hawk HPS pads (not even ceramic) before and they were extremely disappointing. They had low dust, low noise, and were very gentle on the rotors, but the initial bite was beyond pathetic and I felt it always gave me more than a fair share of unwanted adrenaline rushes in emergency braking. I would expect their ceramics to be even worse in terms of initial bite.
2) Disc Italia Hyper Ceramic
http://www.brakeworld.com/ProductList.aspx?catid=2
Not much feedback on these out there but what I found was positive. The marketing description sounds amazing but they avoid commenting on initial bite altogether, so I assume that it is poor. From my experience with the Hawk HPS I have to think it could not get any worse though... but I don't want to be wrong about that. Also, they do not sell many other pads on that website so it is hard to compare them against other brands.
Usually ceramics tout "linear brake response" which when translated without marketing spin means "crappy initial bite but will eventually stop the car".
I understand pad compounds are a compromise but is there a ceramic out there with good initial bite on par with OEM metallics? Willing to compromise on price and other factors noted above.
I've contacted Endless but they are only in Europe, Japan, Australia so it's a long shot. The NS97 pad looks ideal for me if there is something similar out there locally. The SSM also looked promising but had lower friction coefficient and less initial bite though it had the least brake dust. I wish other manufacturers had such informative comparison charts!
http://www.endless-brake.info/compar...re-street-pads
Edit:
Actually it looks like the Disc Italia Titanium Kevlar does mention strong initial bite on their official page, and extremely low dust levels! And they are not ceramic so performance may be on par with other metallics.
http://www.disc-italia.com/KevlarBrakePads.aspx
Endless USA also got back with me very quickly and had this to say:
Thank you for your email. We don’t actually manufacture the NS97 for European cars, but we do have the MX72 or the EWIG Premium if you’re looking for a good street compound that’s quiet and offers low noise and low dust. MX72 is more aggressive than the EWIG premium because it’s meant as a cross between street and track. I think if you’re looking for the NS97 then the MX72 will be the next best option.
Pricing for the pads are as follows:
EIP 130 Front and EIP 131 Rear MX72 : $350 each set
EIP 130 Front and EIP 131 Rear EWIG Premium : $330 each set
Tire rack's tech page has me thinking that I should really get ceramics given my search parameters: http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/tech/...currentpage=80
Now then, there are two main choices I've seen but would consider others if they are out there (but not EBC given the amount of negative feeedback out there and hit/miss reputation). I would consider the Akebono ceramics but it doesn't appear they are available for CLK63 brakes (no fronts, only rears on tire rack web site).
1) Hawk Performance Ceramic:
http://www.hawkperformance.com/performance/ceramic.php
These look promising but I have had Hawk HPS pads (not even ceramic) before and they were extremely disappointing. They had low dust, low noise, and were very gentle on the rotors, but the initial bite was beyond pathetic and I felt it always gave me more than a fair share of unwanted adrenaline rushes in emergency braking. I would expect their ceramics to be even worse in terms of initial bite.
2) Disc Italia Hyper Ceramic
http://www.brakeworld.com/ProductList.aspx?catid=2
Not much feedback on these out there but what I found was positive. The marketing description sounds amazing but they avoid commenting on initial bite altogether, so I assume that it is poor. From my experience with the Hawk HPS I have to think it could not get any worse though... but I don't want to be wrong about that. Also, they do not sell many other pads on that website so it is hard to compare them against other brands.
Usually ceramics tout "linear brake response" which when translated without marketing spin means "crappy initial bite but will eventually stop the car".
I understand pad compounds are a compromise but is there a ceramic out there with good initial bite on par with OEM metallics? Willing to compromise on price and other factors noted above.
I've contacted Endless but they are only in Europe, Japan, Australia so it's a long shot. The NS97 pad looks ideal for me if there is something similar out there locally. The SSM also looked promising but had lower friction coefficient and less initial bite though it had the least brake dust. I wish other manufacturers had such informative comparison charts!
http://www.endless-brake.info/compar...re-street-pads
Edit:
Actually it looks like the Disc Italia Titanium Kevlar does mention strong initial bite on their official page, and extremely low dust levels! And they are not ceramic so performance may be on par with other metallics.
http://www.disc-italia.com/KevlarBrakePads.aspx
Endless USA also got back with me very quickly and had this to say:
Thank you for your email. We don’t actually manufacture the NS97 for European cars, but we do have the MX72 or the EWIG Premium if you’re looking for a good street compound that’s quiet and offers low noise and low dust. MX72 is more aggressive than the EWIG premium because it’s meant as a cross between street and track. I think if you’re looking for the NS97 then the MX72 will be the next best option.
Pricing for the pads are as follows:
EIP 130 Front and EIP 131 Rear MX72 : $350 each set
EIP 130 Front and EIP 131 Rear EWIG Premium : $330 each set
Last edited by Nero Tenebre; 10-03-2012 at 03:41 PM.
10-04-2012, 02:50 PM
#2
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C63
I can tell you that had the same issues a while back when I got my C63. I looked high and low and every one was super $$$. I found the portorfields RS4 pads and I love them! I have had them on the car for over a year and half and they are amazing. At least 50% less brake dust and a great bite. I don't track or beat my car tho so I can't say how they would hold up in that type of setting. But for normal to spirited driving, these are solo the way to go.
Hope this helps
M
Ps almost forgot a great benefit to these pads. They are super gentle to my $1,200 a piece 2 piece track package rotors. They still look great and I'm at 50,000 knock on wood.
Hope this helps
M
Ps almost forgot a great benefit to these pads. They are super gentle to my $1,200 a piece 2 piece track package rotors. They still look great and I'm at 50,000 knock on wood.
Last edited by Mikegpr03; 10-04-2012 at 02:52 PM.
10-05-2012, 02:03 PM
#3
Super Member
Thread Starter
I can tell you that had the same issues a while back when I got my C63. I looked high and low and every one was super $$$. I found the portorfields RS4 pads and I love them! I have had them on the car for over a year and half and they are amazing. At least 50% less brake dust and a great bite. I don't track or beat my car tho so I can't say how they would hold up in that type of setting. But for normal to spirited driving, these are solo the way to go.
Hope this helps
M
Ps almost forgot a great benefit to these pads. They are super gentle to my $1,200 a piece 2 piece track package rotors. They still look great and I'm at 50,000 knock on wood.
Hope this helps
M
Ps almost forgot a great benefit to these pads. They are super gentle to my $1,200 a piece 2 piece track package rotors. They still look great and I'm at 50,000 knock on wood.
I will do some research on those and see what turns up. I am very interested in gentle pads because I want to upgrade my rotors as well. I'm at 30k miles and the renntech pads have chewed up my rotors pretty aggressively. Along with the unbearable dust and the high price tag, I have been very disappointed. Which rotor upgrade do you have? I haven't seen any that look as good as stock unfortunately. I really wish Brembo made a set to swap in the stock caliper, I have their GT kit on my NSX and they look stunning and last and last and last for years.
Last edited by Nero Tenebre; 10-05-2012 at 02:07 PM.
02-06-2013, 02:26 PM
#4
Super Member
Thread Starter
Just to follow up on this for the benefit of others, I have decided to go with the Disc Italia Hyper Ceramic over the Titanium Kevlar. Tirerack also would be a good option for the similar Hawk Ceramic pads which look promising, only I had Hawk pads before and wasn't impressed with the braking performance (mainly bite) though they were extremely low dust, very gentle on the rotor, and very long lasting pads just as advertised. Actually quite a good street pad when I think about it- I may try those next time since now I have a BBK and the Hawk pads I used were with pretty wimpy brakes. I don't think Akebono makes a pad for this application though that could have been an option even though they have a huge squeal problem, and the Endless pads were hard to get not available in the compound I wanted.
So I sent brakeworld.com (the only US vendor for disc italia) an email query after business hours and they promptly called me the next day as requested to discuss each pads. The rep was very knowledgable and answered all my very specific questions about each pad and comparisons between them. He followed up immediately with my request to see the pad outline and dimensions to confirm fitment. He also verified warehouse locations and availability of stock for me. So, I feel reassured about their service already though there was little information about Disc Italia available.
http://www.brakeworld.com/ProductLis...od=CLK63%20AMG
Hyper Ceramic and Ti Kevlar both have minimal dust, probably 10% of the dust of OEM pads but Ti Kevlar is the longer lasting pad which is a little harsher on the rotor. Since rotor life will be a priority if I spend $2500 on 2 piece rotors, I will pay a little more for the pads and give up some initial bite and pad life with the softer Ceramics. At only $200 & $150, they are priced like the Hawk pads and seem to be a great value when compared to "premium" pads like the porterfields and renntechs. We'll see how they perform when the rotors are ready and I'll report back with impressions. I am really hoping the sacrifice in initial bite is bearable and that they aren't a huge mistake... I'll roll the dice so you guys don't have to
So I sent brakeworld.com (the only US vendor for disc italia) an email query after business hours and they promptly called me the next day as requested to discuss each pads. The rep was very knowledgable and answered all my very specific questions about each pad and comparisons between them. He followed up immediately with my request to see the pad outline and dimensions to confirm fitment. He also verified warehouse locations and availability of stock for me. So, I feel reassured about their service already though there was little information about Disc Italia available.
http://www.brakeworld.com/ProductLis...od=CLK63%20AMG
Hyper Ceramic and Ti Kevlar both have minimal dust, probably 10% of the dust of OEM pads but Ti Kevlar is the longer lasting pad which is a little harsher on the rotor. Since rotor life will be a priority if I spend $2500 on 2 piece rotors, I will pay a little more for the pads and give up some initial bite and pad life with the softer Ceramics. At only $200 & $150, they are priced like the Hawk pads and seem to be a great value when compared to "premium" pads like the porterfields and renntechs. We'll see how they perform when the rotors are ready and I'll report back with impressions. I am really hoping the sacrifice in initial bite is bearable and that they aren't a huge mistake... I'll roll the dice so you guys don't have to
Last edited by Nero Tenebre; 02-06-2013 at 02:45 PM.
