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Old 02-13-2010, 12:18 PM   #1
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Origin of M271 engine

I took my car in for an A-Service today.

The service techs at the garage told me the M271 1.8 liter engine is a Mitsubishi engine. I didn't believe them at first, but I did some searching on the web once I got home. Apparently, DaimlerChrysler, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai partnered from 2000-2005 and formed the Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance ("GEMA"). There are four GEMA engines - 1.8 liter, 2.0 liter, 2.4 liter, 2.4 liter turbo. (After DaimlerChrysler split up, Chrysler bought out Mitsubishi and Hyundai's interests in GEMA).

I found the official website for GEMA and located the specifications for the 1.8 liter, Inline 4:

http://www.gemaengine.com/index.php?...d=23&Itemid=35

Is the GEMA 1.8 liter related to the M271? Was the M271 developed by GEMA for use in Mercedes vehicles?

Interestingly, the service techs told me that the M271 is very different in design from other Mercedes engines.
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Old 02-13-2010, 02:36 PM   #2
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They are not the same motor. The M271 started its life out as an engine for Formula 3.
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Old 02-13-2010, 02:46 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Capt Nemo o2 View Post
They are not the same motor. The M271 started its life out as an engine for Formula 3.
No, according to a quick search on the web, the Formula 3 engine is a derivative of the production M271.

The question remains, is the M271 a product of a Mitsubishi/Hyundai/DaimlerChrysler collaboration?
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Old 02-13-2010, 02:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumsbeard View Post
I took my car in for an A-Service today.

The service techs at the garage told me the M271 1.8 liter engine is a Mitsubishi engine. I didn't believe them at first, but I did some searching on the web once I got home. Apparently, DaimlerChrysler, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai partnered from 2000-2005 and formed the Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance ("GEMA"). There are four GEMA engines - 1.8 liter, 2.0 liter, 2.4 liter, 2.4 liter turbo. (After DaimlerChrysler split up, Chrysler bought out Mitsubishi and Hyundai's interests in GEMA).

I found the official website for GEMA and located the specifications for the 1.8 liter, Inline 4:

http://www.gemaengine.com/index.php?...d=23&Itemid=35

Is the GEMA 1.8 liter related to the M271? Was the M271 developed by GEMA for use in Mercedes vehicles?

Interestingly, the service techs told me that the M271 is very different in design from other Mercedes engines.
My understanding is that the M266 range of engines as found in the B Class etc. was a GEMA engine & that the M271 was Merc's own effort. The GEMA engines do not have the same bore & stroke etc as the M271 & have an Aluminium block. The M271 has a cast iron block. I think the service techs are confused.
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Old 02-13-2010, 03:00 PM   #5
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My understanding is that the M266 range of engines as found in the B Class etc. was a GEMA engine & that the M271 was Merc's own effort. The GEMA engines do not have the same bore & stroke etc as the M271 & have an Aluminium block. The M271 has a cast iron block. I think the service techs are confused.
Althought I dislike quoting Wikipedia entries, this is what they have to say about the M271:

The Mercedes-Benz M271 engine is a straight-4 automobile piston engine family used in the 2000s.

All M271 engines are built in Bad Cannstatt, Germany. The family has a cast aluminum engine block and aluminum DOHC cylinder heads. It uses SFI fuel injection, has 4 valves per cylinder with variable valve timing, is supercharged and intercooled, and features fracture-split forged steel connecting rods.
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Old 02-13-2010, 08:14 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by rumsbeard View Post
Althought I dislike quoting Wikipedia entries, this is what they have to say about the M271:

The Mercedes-Benz M271 engine is a straight-4 automobile piston engine family used in the 2000s.

All M271 engines are built in Bad Cannstatt, Germany. The family has a cast aluminum engine block and aluminum DOHC cylinder heads. It uses SFI fuel injection, has 4 valves per cylinder with variable valve timing, is supercharged and intercooled, and features fracture-split forged steel connecting rods.
Ha Ha! I looked in the wrong wiki - mine said

quote "All M271 engines are built in Bad Cannstatt, Germany. The family has a cast iron engine block and aluminum DOHC cylinder heads. It uses SFI fuel injection, has 4 valves per cylinder with variable valve timing, is supercharged and intercooled, and features fracture-split forged steel connecting rods."

Which is correct? - I'll check
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Old 02-13-2010, 08:50 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck View Post
Ha Ha! I looked in the wrong wiki - mine said

quote "All M271 engines are built in Bad Cannstatt, Germany. The family has a cast iron engine block and aluminum DOHC cylinder heads. It uses SFI fuel injection, has 4 valves per cylinder with variable valve timing, is supercharged and intercooled, and features fracture-split forged steel connecting rods."

Which is correct? - I'll check
Right - The M271 has an aluminium block & was designed by Benz from everything I can ascertain Sorry - I don't know the 4 cyl engines well. They are not my favourites

M266 M271
Capacity 2034cc 1796cc
Cylinders Inline-4 Inline-4
Valvetrain 8 valve SOHC 16 valve DOHC
Configuration FF FR
Head Aluminium alloy Aluminium alloy
Block Aluminium alloy Aluminium alloy
Bore x Stroke 83 x 94 82 x 85
Power 193 @ 5,000 184 @ 5,800
Torque 280Nm @ 1800-4850rpm 250Nm @ 2800-5000rpm
Induction Turbocharged Supercharged
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Old 02-14-2010, 02:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumsbeard View Post
I took my car in for an A-Service today.

The service techs at the garage told me the M271 1.8 liter engine is a Mitsubishi engine. I didn't believe them at first, but I did some searching on the web once I got home. Apparently, DaimlerChrysler, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai partnered from 2000-2005 and formed the Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance ("GEMA"). There are four GEMA engines - 1.8 liter, 2.0 liter, 2.4 liter, 2.4 liter turbo. (After DaimlerChrysler split up, Chrysler bought out Mitsubishi and Hyundai's interests in GEMA).



Interestingly, the service techs told me that the M271 is very different in design from other Mercedes engines.

Yup, that's why the Hyundai Genesis shares the same 4b11 motor as the EVO X, as well as the same TD05 turbocharger.
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Old 02-14-2010, 03:48 PM   #9
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Well that would explain some things.
The poor head design, damaged valvles and stretched timing chain issues with this engine are very un-mercedes like. Typically they overbuild everything.

The M111 while perhaps not as fuel efficient is certainly a stout engine at least as far as the engine itself is concerned. Part of my buying decision was that this engine had been around for a long time and had a good service record.
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Old 02-14-2010, 04:42 PM   #10
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So, what is the upshot here?
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Old 02-14-2010, 04:52 PM   #11
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The M271 is not a GEMA engine.
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Old 02-14-2010, 10:21 PM   #12
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..The M271 started its life out as an engine for Formula 3.
This statement seems rather disingenuous at best.

Doing so is akin to suggesting Ford’s Kent and Duratec engines were specifically designed for the open wheel series in which they’re often fitted. Although F3 is contested under the auspices of several governing bodies, their FIA-sanctioned normally aspirated 2.0 liter engines can generally be submitted for approval and homologation only after at least 2500 have been produced - a tall order for even the most lavishly-financed manufacturers’ racing budgets.

It’s a bloody road engine designed and built to serve MB’s passenger car marketing objectives, although a reasonably competent one at that. For them to have extracted an honest 189 horsepower and 192 lb-ft from 1.8 liters with relatively modest supercharger boost – while being certified CARB compliant - bespeaks their undeniable engineering prowess. Couple of bollocks along the way, but the former M271 piloted by kin served its purpose admirably.

You’re likely too young to have witnessed Al Unser, Jr.’s Illmor-Mercedes ~1000 horsepower machine run away from the competition at Indy, or Maurício Gugelmin earn an outright closed course record (at that time) for the marque of 240+ mph at California Speedway. Save for McLaren Mercedes’ recent power plants, those are what some might rightly consider to be proper racing engines.

reference
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Old 02-14-2010, 11:26 PM   #13
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This statement seems rather disingenuous at best.

Doing so is akin to suggesting Ford’s Kent and Duratec engines were specifically designed for the open wheel series in which they’re often fitted. Although F3 is contested under the auspices of several governing bodies, their FIA-sanctioned normally aspirated 2.0 liter engines can generally be submitted for approval and homologation only after at least 2500 have been produced - a tall order for even the most lavishly-financed manufacturers’ racing budgets.

It’s a bloody road engine designed and built to serve MB’s passenger car marketing objectives, although a reasonably competent one at that. For them to have extracted an honest 189 horsepower and 192 lb-ft from 1.8 liters with relatively modest supercharger boost – while being certified CARB compliant - bespeaks their undeniable engineering prowess. Couple of bollocks along the way, but the former M271 piloted by kin served its purpose admirably.

You’re likely too young to have witnessed Al Unser, Jr.’s Illmor-Mercedes ~1000 horsepower machine run away from the competition at Indy, or Maurício Gugelmin earn an outright closed course record (at that time) for the marque of 240+ mph at California Speedway. Save for McLaren Mercedes’ recent power plants, those are what some might rightly consider to be proper racing engines.

reference
Geez! Relax guys! I misread the page I was looking at. I thought it said the M271 started in F3 in the end of 2001, when the engine itself didnt make it into production until MY2003. I forgot that MY2002 elsewhere got it first. And it's not uncommon for products to debut in racing before it its production counterpart is released; every racing series has some weird loopholes for homologation! Some require only "production ready" while others require "at least X amount are/will be available for sale"
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:17 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Capt Nemo o2 View Post
Geez! Relax guys! I misread the page I was looking at. I thought it said the M271 started in F3 in the end of 2001, when the engine itself didnt make it into production until MY2003. I forgot that MY2002 elsewhere got it first. And it's not uncommon for products to debut in racing before it its production counterpart is released; every racing series has some weird loopholes for homologation! Some require only "production ready" while others require "at least X amount are/will be available for sale"
Must have forgotten to include an appropriate emoticon upon concluding yet another long-winded diatribe.
Far be it from me to argue with a knowledgeable and successful engineer.
Just bustin’ your *****, Capt Nemo o2.

Details on your Shelby 427 Cobra Supercharged…a boosted FE?
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:53 AM   #15
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It’s a bloody road engine designed and built to serve MB’s passenger car marketing objectives, although a reasonably competent one at that. For them to have extracted an honest 189 horsepower and 192 lb-ft from 1.8 liters with relatively modest supercharger boost – while being certified CARB compliant - bespeaks their undeniable engineering prowess.
I like the M271 for the most part. It's kind of gruff, especially when cold, but other than that for me it's been a very reliable and efficient engine with sufficient power.
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Old 02-15-2010, 02:03 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splinter View Post
Must have forgotten to include an appropriate emoticon upon concluding yet another long-winded diatribe.
Far be it from me to argue with a knowledgeable and successful engineer.
Just bustin’ your *****, Capt Nemo o2.

Details on your Shelby 427 Cobra Supercharged…a boosted FE?
Knowledgeable yes! Successful no! Job market for ME's sucks right now! I'm in a catch 22... I need more experience to get a job, but I need a job to get more experience!

The Cobra is a Dart 427 small block built to support 1000+ HP. Its running about 4-5 lbs of boost from a Paxton blower. It pulled 549.68 hp at the wheels last time it was on the dyno. According to some testing done by some one on the SCOF forums, that equates to 688 crank hp! It turns out the fuel lines were too thin (fuel pump rated for 2000 hp) and it ran lean. The fuel lines were changed but it has not been back to the dyno since to be jetted and tuned.
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:14 AM   #17
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..The Cobra is a Dart 427 small block built to support 1000+ HP. Its running about 4-5 lbs of boost from a Paxton blower. It pulled 549.68 hp at the wheels last time it was on the dyno. According to some testing done by some one on the SCOF forums, that equates to 688 crank hp! It turns out the fuel lines were too thin (fuel pump rated for 2000 hp) and it ran lean. The fuel lines were changed but it has not been back to the dyno since to be jetted and tuned.
550+ rwhp in a 90 inch wheelbase? You’ve more huevos than I.
Must be a kick in the tail.

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Old 02-16-2010, 07:47 AM   #18
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:58 AM   #19
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550+ rwhp in a 90 inch wheelbase? You’ve more huevos than I.
Must be a kick in the tail.

Helped a buddy assemble his Kirkham KMS/SC equipped with a Barry Rabotnick-prepared FE.
Almost lost lunch as a passenger during its half throttle shakedown cruises.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Cont...0000002088.pdf
I love the Kirkham Le Mans!

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~60% throttle for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, full for 4th until I backed down... Speedo increments by 20 mph...

Short acceleration run!
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:39 AM   #20
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:09 PM   #21
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Anyone know if you can increase the displacement of the M271?

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Old 01-04-2011, 07:16 AM   #22
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There does seem to be a lot of M271 dislike here. I have to say that I do like the engine. Maybe I got a good one but at 133,000 miles, it idles smoothly, runs like new, and has had no repair issues. My wife's Acura TSX with the 2.4 engine also runs smoothly at 134,000 miles.

My M271 idles smoother than my Cadillac SRX with the Northstar V8, although, when you you put your foot in it, that engine moves and sounds fantastic.
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Old 01-04-2011, 04:52 PM   #23
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There does seem to be a lot of M271 dislike here. I have to say that I do like the engine. Maybe I got a good one but at 133,000 miles, it idles smoothly, runs like new, and has had no repair issues. My wife's Acura TSX with the 2.4 engine also runs smoothly at 134,000 miles.

My M271 idles smoother than my Cadillac SRX with the Northstar V8, although, when you you put your foot in it, that engine moves and sounds fantastic.
I like the M271. I haven't had any issues with mine, either. I'm just over 100,000 miles. It's interesting that you mention smoothness. Mine does not seem to be as smooth as it once was. Maybe it needs engine mounts? Have you done anything like that to yours?
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:57 AM   #24
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I´ve been using synthetic french oil Motul since 1999 in all the cars I had. (Fiat, Peugeot, Audi and two Mercedes, both with the M271 engine) All of them were used for 100.000 km more or less, and I change the oil every 20.000 km. None showed any failure and worked as better as the first day. So rely in your M271. Sure is a great propulsion plant.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:37 AM   #25
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I like the M271. I haven't had any issues with mine, either. I'm just over 100,000 miles. It's interesting that you mention smoothness. Mine does not seem to be as smooth as it once was. Maybe it needs engine mounts? Have you done anything like that to yours?
Been away from this thread for a while. No repairs to the motor mounts on mine. Unless my car is unusual, the engine runs smooth when first started, on cold mornings, and just about anytime it's running.

The only time it ever ran rough, was when a check engine light came on at around 119,000 miles. At idle, the car shook for a second and then ran fine. I checked for codes and found a cylinder 4 misfire. Turned out to be a broken coil. I replaced plugs and coil and it's been great since. Mileage is 146,000 now.
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